Urgently Teaching Puppy To Shut Up........

[Guest LittlePixie]

Our neighbour cornered tramissa this morning and kindly and politely informed her that if Kaeleigh howls again, he's going to jump the fence and kill her (note sarcasm )

Please help me with ways to teach her, relatively quickly, to shut up? She gets deeply offended if she's left alone and has a bloody big tantrum if she is. She doesn't bark for long periods of time... it's just the first 5 - 10 minutes (15 on a bad day) after she's been left, and when she sees me come out to get her again, which would be for all of 10 seconds.

When this happens we just completely ignore her. It is slowly working as she learns that crying just doesn't get her what she wants. She's down to only crying for 5-10 minutes after I leave her alone (as in: with the other dogs, but no people) but clearly this is not good enough for our very pleasant neighbour.

So.... help?

Keeping her inside when I'm out isn't an option. She is a chewer and I just can't risk her damaging anything as this is a rental property. The kitchen has a lino floor, and Minnie is left there during the day without incident, but Kaeleigh would chew the cupboards and doors and I simply cannot afford to replace them all if she does.

Kaeleigh isn't left alone for inordinate periods of time. She is home alone for 10 hours 2 days a week, and even then she's got Holly & Brody for company. Monday - Wednesday she comes with me to Cordelia's, and Saturday and Sunday Tramissa is home.

I hope this makes sense and I haven't left anything important out. I'm still fuming about this bloody neighbour... we put up with his dogs barking all night for MONTHS... I went out to my car one morning and one of his little horrors came out from under my car and bit me on the ankle... his bloody dogs kept getting through the fence and shitting all over our yard and fighting underneath our house..... and you certainly didn't see us threatening to kill his lot (before they were all seized by the council! Ha ha!). All he had to bloody do was ask nicely and we would have apologised profusely and worked something out.

As it is, he is most definately the kind of individual who would follow through with his threat. What the hell do I do? I don't want to rehome Kaeleigh but if the other option is this bastard chucking poison into their run (he can't get into it - it's padlocked) and killing my other dogs as well as my baby girl, I'm going to have to

She's just being a completely normal (if vocal and demanding) baby puppy... but is there ANYTHING I can do to completely cut out the crying faster?

Edited November 1, 2005 by LittlePixie

[Coolibah Coolies]

Pixie I know just how u feel same is happening to us and we live in the bush and my next doors dogs barked all night for months, their jrt lives in my paddock and has a pad from travelling back and forward, one suggestion I have you could keep her inside if you put a very soft muzzle on her the cheap ones are great not tight and they can drink and pant but cant chew. I do this with one of mine as she cant stop chewing had a go at the electric blanket cord the other day when I had it off ram raided Amys room and robs toys etc.

Good luck and I hope there are some ideas out there for us, I think Cordys neighbour is cloning

[tramissa]

Mind you, I've never seen this guy before - dunno if he's her new boyfriend or what...but he's insane. I do hear him at about 11pm - midnight most nights coming home drunk as anything and stumbling up their driveway, cursing all the way.

Maybe I should tell him if he wakes me up again by coming home drunk I'll kill him?? (that WAS sarcasm - I would never, ever hurt anything purposely).

And to think when we moved in we were worried about the other neighbour, who has turned into a godsend. In fact, I'm going over tonight to talk to him about this - he's a rough guy himself, but with a heart of gold when he decides he likes you - and he likes us

[Guest LittlePixie]

one suggestion I have you could keep her inside if you put a very soft muzzle on her the cheap ones are great not tight and they can drink and pant but cant chew.

Ohhh that's great.... I wonder if that would work. We've got plastic basket muzzles at work that are lightweight and they can still open their mouths and drink etc... does anyone else have comments on this idea??

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

I would crate much easier than I would muzzle a dog left alone. Crates are a very effective way of ensuring your dog and home are both safe when you can't be there to supervise. Of course, I mean that you crate the dog inside the house!

Having said that, you must start crate training b/c you would not be wise to just crate a dog without any build-up to it. Make it the best place to be for the dog by feeding her in there and giving her treats only in the crate.

You can also invest in a DAP diffuser which IMO is the best ever dog invention. It helps to calm anxious dogs in all kinds of situations and has almost cured my two girls' separation anxiety.

I am very much against leaving dogs home alone outdoors b/c it risks their safety - there are too many ppl out there who get their kicks from hurting and killing innocent pets - just look at yesterday's case in Ballarat. Not to mention vindictive neighbours who think they're justified in harming or killing a pet b/c of the pet's behaviour. Even in a locked run, it's possible to get a baited meal through the wire, so you can't be sure your dog is safe there, unless you cover the wire mesh with shadecloth and that is easily cut through.

As always, JMHO but worth thinking about and I hope you can resolve the problem peacefully.

Oh, and dogs bark - you can't stop a dog from barking b/c it is a completely normal behaviour, I liken it to trying to stop a person from speaking...impossible!

[Guest LittlePixie]

She is crate trained.... but I'd rehome her before I'd crate her for 10 hours straight.

Thanks for the suggestion though

[tianakaesha]

Pixie's dogs are crate trained I believe...

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

The ten hours is only twice-weekly though isn't it? If this were my dog, I'd prefer to crate for this time period than rehome. Crating isn't cruel as some ppl like to think, esp not for a dog already crate trained.

IMHO it is far better to crate a dog (with appropriate activities to keep her busy) than to rehome (that would be an absolute last resort option for me).

I know of many, many greyhound ppl in the USA that crate their hounds for more than 10 hours at a stretch, five days a week. Not that I condone that, but it's what many dogs are expected to manage and they seem OK.

I know that there has to be a happy medium - it seems that crating this particular dog would keep her both safe and quiet?

[MolassesLass]

Ohhh that's great.... I wonder if that would work. We've got plastic basket muzzles at work that are lightweight and they can still open their mouths and drink etc... does anyone else have comments on this idea??

Could work, unless the muzzle is used to bash into things and damage them. Thinking of the working muzzle I have for my dogs, they could still do damage with it when trying to get to stuff.

A quietening technique: On a day when you aren't leaving pretend to leave, go about your usual leaving routine and put the dog outside. Have a bucket of water with a cup or small container sitting in it just outside the dogs pen. Wait inside until dog howls/barks, then calmly (important!) walk outside, scoop up the container full of water and toss in the dogs face. Say nothing, walk back inside and try to sound like you've left again. The idea being a splash of water in the face is not pleasant (while also not being cruel) and teaches the dog that howling/barking for your attention is not fun, because when you do come out to give the attention, not only is none given (by the calm, no talking-ness) but the unpleasant thing happens.

I guess it could make her worse, by thinking that you are still home all the time, but if the aversion of the water works well enough this shouldn't happen.

Can the other dog/s be left outside with her or does she howl despite them being around?

[Guest LittlePixie]

The ten hours is only twice-weekly though isn't it?

Yes... but I wouldn't say "only" 10 hours is a long time for a highly energetic baby puppy. Too long IMO.

Crating isn't cruel as some ppl like to think, esp not for a dog already crate trained.

I don't believe crating is cruel at all. As said, all three of my dogs are crate trained and have on occasion been left crated inside for a few hours if I'm out at night. But I do believe that crating for such long periods of time as a regular thing is cruel. A dog is not a stuffed animal that can essentially be left sitting on a shelf all day until you're ready to play with it.

IMHO it is far better to crate a dog (with appropriate activities to keep her busy) than to rehome (that would be an absolute last resort option for me).

I honestly respect your opinion and I appreciate that you took the time to give me all the advice that you have, but if it reaches a point where the only way I can safely leave her alone is to crate her inside for that long, I believe she will be a happier dog if she is rehomed. Don't think I'm tossing this around lightly and at this point she certainly won't be rehomed - we should be able to sort things out with this neighbour before it reaches that point. I love the little bugger to death.... but in loving her I am taking on the responsibility of doing the right thing by her. Crating her for so long is not doing the right thing by her.

it seems that crating this particular dog would keep her both safe and quiet?

No, she cries louder and longer if she's crated and I leave the room than if she's outside and I leave

Molasseslass... thank you. I'll try the water and see how it goes. The muzzles I'm thinking of are soft plastic... it bends if you squish it.

Can the other dog/s be left outside with her or does she howl despite them being around?

Howls despite them being there. She's outside with both Brody and Holly.

[Cheyenne_Fury]

I have seen these great material muzzles that a friend of mine used on her dog because she would constantly rip the washing off the line and destroy everything in the yard. The dog could still drink and pant etc. just not open her mouth wide enough to cause any damage. After a few weeks of this she got the idea not to destroy anything... I think she just bought hers from the local pet supplies...

Anne

[haven]

Sorry I'm a little confused: Are you saying the guy was being sarcastic when he said he would kill the dog or that he is serious?

If he's j/k then i would tell him to suck it up. The ignoring thing will work IF the barking is not being reinforced by anything, but it may take a little time.

If he is being serious and keeping the dog inside or crated is not an option, than you might try +punishment by applying an aversive when the dog barks. You want the dog to consider this an "act of god" rather than coming from you, so hide and when the dog barks throw a bucket of water (assuming she would find this aversive). Or you could try an anti-barking collar. Never had to use one myself and have heard mixed results from those who have.

Are you sure there is nothing that is reinforcing the dog barking?

[MolassesLass]

Molasseslass... thank you. I'll try the water and see how it goes. The muzzles I'm thinking of are soft plastic... it bends if you squish it.

Ah ok. That should be fine, as long as the dog can't squish the plastic into her mouth and then chew the muzzle to pieces.

Destructive rescues teach you to think of every possibility for disaster.

[gillbear]

There is a type of muzzle called a Husher, it allows the dog more movement to drink and pant but restricts its bark.

Worth a try.

Edited November 2, 2005 by gillbear

[tramissa]

Haven - he was absolutely serious.

The barrage of language and abuse I copped this morning at 5:50am was incredible.

[haven]

Have you contacted the police?

[Mooper]

There is a type of muzzle called a Husher, it allows the dog more movement to drink and pant but restricts its bark.

A Husher may be good for LP to use while she's at home watching from inside ... dog barks ... she (calmly) goes outside and places the muzzle on the dog ... lots of praise for being quiet ... Husher gets removed etc

But please never leave a Husher on an unattended dog.

[Ianto]

What about a bark collar?

[Poodle wrangler]

I've tried a bark collar. They're expensive as are the batteries you need to run them (I borrowed from a friend). Found it worked Ok to begin with, but effect decreased over time. Also, sometimes 'beeped' loudly when dog NOT barking e.g. jumping or playing with ball. Would try other suggestions first.

[Vickie]

Anyone threatening to kill a puppy for crying/barking 10-20 minutes a week has some very serious issues! Are you leaving at very early hours in the morning?

I would report to the police as well...and if you really think he is serious/deranged would be getting someone to look after her on those 2 days.