sidoney Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 (edited) Properly employed, so is an e-collar. Yes, I know, I've met one or 2, at Steve's. I can see me owning one, one day. However a clicker costs about $3 and a collar much more so that will have to wait until I have $$$. This is from someone who was not keen on the idea when all I knew about them was the tales one hears and not the facts. Anyway I'll go back to lurking I think and see what I can learn. Edited November 3, 2005 by sidoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 BTW K9 from all my 'sources' I believe that both e collars and prong collars are 'outlawed' in NSW which is one of the reasons I have very little faith in your methods. If you have to break the law to train a dog then I don't want to do it. BOF there is a saying in an area "other" than dog training - not that I would know, just know the saying. Once you had black you never go back.... I guess for many of us K9 is the black and we dont want to go back..... Just as a side question have you tried Steves services? Im talking about dog training her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Sidoney: This is from someone who was not keen on the idea when all I knew about them was the tales one hears and not the facts. Yep, me too. I took the time to discover the facts. Like many issues, e-collars have evolved over the years from the crude 'shock' collars they started out as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Just as a side question have you tried Steves services? Im talking about dog training here Is this implying that there are other kinds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 S: This is from someone who was not keen on the idea when all I knew about them was the tales one hears and not the facts. PF: Yep, me too. I took the time to discover the facts. Like many issues, e-collars have evolved over the years from the crude 'shock' collars they started out as. K9: the old style collars & methods probably earned every bad word said about them, they were nothing short of barbaric, nothing like the units of today. M: there is a saying in an area "other" than dog training - not that I would know, just know the saying.Once you had black you never go back.... I guess for many of us K9 is the black and we dont want to go back..... Just as a side question have you tried Steves services? Im talking about dog training her K9: FOFLMAO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 (edited) Myzska: I guess for many of us K9 is the black and we dont want to go back..... Gawd Myzska - he'll be unbearable now. I'll say this. K9 helps a lot of people whose dogs have problems. Some of these dogs have euthanaisa as the only other alternative. He gets results. He will use the method that works and that includes, food, toys etc. When you are confronted with a 60+ kg dog who has dragged his handler on a halti into a dog attack, what 'method' do you think would be most suitable to contol it? K9 sees dogs that other trainers have given up on or made worse. We aren't talking about every day pets with minor issues. But when you want a dog that is 100% reliable, you have to up the ante for training. Most of us don't want or think we need that reliablity - until the day our dog fails to respond when its life depends on it. K9 trains dogs whose lives depend on it every day. Edited November 3, 2005 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogibear Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Hi k9 Nerves and drive definatelty seem to be an issue for a lot of shelties i know lol they have great drive will work for a toy food etc but as soon as you take them into a new environment they shut down. connor is seven months old we have done heaps of work in this area and he will now play with a toy when out before he had nointerest at all but now he seems to be more confident about strange places yet at home hes really full on So if i keep working on his drive building will that help overcome the worry when we are training elsewhere Also how much of all this is maturity Connor has strong drives at home when out he will work in food drive not prey but is getting better as he gains more focus i tend to find hes great where there is a lot going on but not so great in quiet places with the odd dog appearing barking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Yes, if you knew me you would roflyao!!! Thanks K9 you responded as I knew you would. No more attacks!!! As I said - never the twain shall meet!!! We all have different goals in life and as I am on the downhill trend I am probably more set in my ways. If you believe they are wrong then so be it. I will just muddle along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Julie Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Right, some more thoughts from me. Haven: doesn't chase birds, doesn't chase anything. Loves to do agility, jumping and tramping around playing GIJoe, makles him feel like a man methinks Wondering if dogs do agility in drive, or if it is simply compliance/obedience, what does k9 think? Haven, what does 'tramping around playing GIJoe' consist of? PJ: Jyra walked straight past other dogs without an interest at all K9: she may have alos been in avoidance... Ah, yes, I forgot about avoidance!! Now, it would be easy to blur the lines between avoidance and neutralisation wouldn't it? Like someone who knows about avoidance but hasn't read this post, who sees one of your dogs ignore something, could mistake that for avoidance. Am I right in saying that neutralisation doesn't equal avoidance (drive). K9: so do I but its a nerve test, when a dog starts to poop, does it do it regardless of my location, or does it circle when doing it, keeping an eye on everything...This tells me much about the dog, a strong nerved dog doesnt feel open when in that mode.. Ok, so poo and nerves is slightly off topic, but seeing as it has been brought up, I have a question about Jyra's toilet behaviour. Jyra pretty much ONLY does her business at home unless she's desparate, and she can hold on a long time! To illustrate, at the k9force workshop in May, Jyra did not go until she got home and we were out all day. Does that indicate anything about nerves or is it simply Jyra's personal preference for the privacy of the back yard? What does the circling indicate? My grandma's boy dog did that when he did a poo out on a walk, but when Jyra does her poos in the back yard, she just goes straight into out without circling. What does that indicate about nerves? Lastly, I'm not sure whether this is a nerves or a habit thing, but often Jyra likes to be escorted outside when she goes to do her business, especially at night time. We can't just open the door and off she'll go (unless she's busting), because she'll just come right back to the door, we have to go out with her (which is a pain when it's raining!). This could just be what Jyra perceives as required routine or something, as when Jyra was 11months to 16months, I lived above a shop and always had to go outside with her and couldn't just open a door and let her out. LL: Again this topic is great. Wait till we start discussing control in drive!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bring it on!! This is what I think I need! Ok, so Jyra has pretty good control with the ball, but I don't think I have managed to get it to the same value as the lure at lure coursing (which she has never had the reward of catching, you would think that if she doesn't get the reward of catching it the value of it would decrease). When Jyra is watching Stamp retrieve or when she is waiting for her turn at lure coursing, is when I would like some more control without reducing her drive. Jyra won't hold a sit stay and she'll bark and carry on very silly. When watching the lure coursing, she'll try to run too. The question is, is this a drive issue, or a frustration issue or both? Like with Stamp, is it just that Jyra wants to join in the fun, or is it that she wants to fulfil prey drive? When I am playing with the ball, when I hold it still, Jyra will sit straight away without being told to and wait for me to release it and she is focussed on the ball when she does this. But this is not happening when she sees other dogs chasing things. Do I need to get the value of the ball higher still? Like so that she wants it more than chasing a lure or any other moving object? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 BOF: Thanks K9 you responded as I knew you would. K9: wow, thats baiting, yet another rule crumbles... lol... BOF: No more attacks!!! K9: Im counting on you! Good work... Deep breathes.. BOF: As I said - never the twain shall meet!!! We all have different goals in life and as I am on the downhill trend I am probably more set in my ways. If you believe they are wrong then so be it. I will just muddle along. K9: Finally we agree 100%. Thanks for stopping the attacks though, it takes up time that I could otherwise answer some other questions, seriously if you have an issue with me or anything I write here, stick it in a pm & I will be happy to talk to you about it with an open mind.... ********************************************* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Thanks for stopping the attacks though, it takes up time that I could otherwise answer some other questions, seriously if you have an issue with me or anything I write here, stick it in a pm & I will be happy to talk to you about it with an open mind.... ********************************************* Amen Can you please answer the toilet questions???? Sorry but you started it, well LL did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Right, some more thoughts from me.Haven: doesn't chase birds, doesn't chase anything. Loves to do agility, jumping and tramping around playing GIJoe, makles him feel like a man methinks Wondering if dogs do agility in drive, or if it is simply compliance/obedience, what does k9 think? Haven, what does 'tramping around playing GIJoe' consist of? Just general runing around, likes being in bushy areas or long grass, jumping logs, crossing rivers etc, crawling under gates etc. As working in drive is not something I would consider I know tons about, I dunno if doing these things is working in drive, or what drive it may be if so. When he gets all monkami, I go over his commands and keep him working. Provided whatever is freaking him out isn't too overwhelming, it helps get his mind on the job and therefore not on the big bad world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 As I said - never the twain shall meet!!! We all have different goals in life and as I am on the downhill trend I am probably more set in my ways. Some people wouldnt get into a Ferrari Testarossa as they would be affraid that they migh actually like it and what to have one.... Some would consider it uncomfortable. Some would think its too fast and too dangerous. But one thing is for sure, that car turns heads. And some people are happ with the Daewoo Lanos, gets them from A to B. Now on the subject of an ecollars and prong collars. Im a very happy owner of a ecollar. I of course as majority of people had the wrong concept about them and said originally NEVER on my dog! I have the collar for few months and my dog is not a spring chicken so the training is not so quick. I used to walk my dog with a firend and her dogs. We havent done this for a while, and had an opportunity to do this last weekend. Her comment was - I have never ever in my life seen your dog being so obiedient and so happy. I guess if the collar was so barbaric he wouldnt be happy....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Will we be covering Ecollar training at the Vic seminar? Will they be available for purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Not sure what you're saying Lablover I have done the NDTF cert III in dog behaviour and training and the cert IV canine behaviour specialist. I've had dogs all my life but only been really involved in training dogs since I got Loki nearly 4 years ago. I teach obedience classes, but certainly wouldn't profess to know even a small percentage of everything! Haven, I am sorry for my vague post, nothing out of the ordinary I assure you. When I think about the average person, (not yourself!!), on their views regarding labradors, they like to think of the breed as rather boring. When I posted my reply I was soaking wet as the heavens had opened and I had noticed one of our water pipes had become loose from a rainwater tank. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To the negative posters, have you ever broken into song without music, when training at a high level?. I am not ashamed to say I have broken into tears from time to time at training when my dogs have tasted success after marrying up concepts, and I am no cry baby. If the dogs fail which of course they do from time to time I never blame my dogs. NEVER. I can break in tears (damm dogs I would hardly ever cry if I did not have dogs, LOL) at local obedience clubs when I watch the dogs confusion. There is nothing worse than a confused dog and angry trainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 no e collar training in vic, they are restricted there... lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 K9: tears flow when we get results with dogs quite often, people often become quite emotional when fear aggression dissolves & play drive comes out.... No, not from me, Im sure if anyone says I did, it was a bit of dust.... windy up here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 seriously, the 18th is an open workshop, if you ask about remote trainers, I will just have to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Purplejulie, It may be an idea to start a new thread. To tell you the truth, I cannot work out why one of my labs who has great desire, trembles with excitement when in drive (any drive). K9 force?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Julie Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 (edited) Hey, Steve, did you see my post on page 10, towards the bottom? You might have missed it, as page 11 started soon afterwards. Sorry, LL. I have a lot of things I'd like to talk to you about. Edited November 3, 2005 by Purple Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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