Agility: Bar Knocking

[poodlefan]

Interestingly, at our club, due to the construction of jumps the small dogs are basically jumping small height from the beginning.

If you were to do it show jumping style, you'd start at a jump large enough to make the dog jump 'properly' and build up. For a large dog, you'd probably not go below medium. You'd rarely have all the jumps in a course the same height either. I think that an identical jump height for all jumps makes the dog lose focus on them - varying heights ABOVE and below the competition jump height might assist.

[office bitch]

It is interesting that the handlers that are saying their dogs rarely knock bars have dogs that run with a higher head carriage. My Belgian Shepherd rarely knocked bars and she also had a higher head carriage. These dogs also seem to have less trouble with contacts.

Border collies run with a lower head carriage and have a longish back in relation to their height. I believe this is why they often are the bar knockers. Borders also seem to take a longer stride in relation to their height. My 520mm border has a longer stride than my 575mm Belgian. I think this contributes to the fact that they often have trouble with contacts.

Someone mentioned that dogs placed too close to the first jump often knock it but I also think if they are too far away or not set up square on to the jump they will knock it.

In regards to bringing the bar knocking to the dogs attention, I currently have a young border collie just out of Novice. He is very messy with his jumping at home (we have a rather uneven area to train on) and knocks bars left, right and centre! I do stop him from continuing the set and start over. At training at my club and at trials he rarely knock a bar.

[Vickie]

I've so far gradually built up the height and although I can't complain about their jumping style, I do question what it teaches them.

What do other people do? At our club dogs start on the lower height and work up, regardless of age.

I don't think it is as big an issue with dogs who are not prone to jumping flat. But I agree, spending months on low height can really only encourage them to jump flat. We started sequencing long before jumping at full height, just using uprights. I'm not sure what low heights offer (other than encouragement to jump flat) that poles on the ground can't.

Our club starts at low heights & works up...I just chose not to run my dog there until she was old enough to jump full height. We certainly "jumped" low on occasion, but we didn't "train". We also started our gridwork on low, but progressed very quickly to medium & sometimes large.

It'd be interesting to know what % of flyball dogs are regular bar knockers in agility...they are afterall trained continually on low.

[Vickie]

Someone mentioned that dogs placed too close to the first jump often knock it but I also think if they are too far away or not set up square on to the jump they will knock it.

Actually I think leadouts & how well trained/confident the dog is in a leadout has a lot to do with first bar syndrome. My boys often knocked the first bar and their leadout/start line was far from perfect. I could see the frenzy & panic in their faces to catch up to me and I was often not in an ideal position to help them.

I am so far very happy with Trims leadouts. I see no panic in her face & she knows her job. I spend a lot of time working out EXACTLY where I'll be when I release her so that she knows as much as possible about the course before we start.

In regards to bringing the bar knocking to the dogs attention, I currently have a young border collie just out of Novice.  He is very messy with his jumping at home (we have a rather uneven area to train on) and knocks bars left, right and centre!  I do stop him from continuing the set and start over.  At training at my club and at trials he rarely knock a bar.

I make a point of a knocked bar in gridwork, but would not on a course. In gridwork, I can set everything up & know exactly why the bar goes down. I actually started gridwork exercises with Noah, who was always a chronic bar knocker, 4 years into his training. Again, I let him know when the bar went down & rewarded when it stayed up. I was able to modify his jumping style & he did start to keep bars up in trials. I wouldn't do this with a dog likely to shut down & I certainly didn't "correct", just stopped & said "Ohhhh...what is this, what happened". Both Trim & Noah learnt quickly that their job was to keep the bar up. I never did it with Zeus, he is a much softer dog.

Edited November 1, 2005 by Vickie

[FHRP]

Interestingly, at our club, due to the construction of jumps the small dogs are basically jumping small height from the beginning.

This is not quite true poodlefan. We have jumps with lower heights than current ANKC small jump height and many instructors make the effort to place both the tyre and spread jumpes lower than small dog height. We also have or had a table that was lower.

[sidoney]

I've so far gradually built up the height and although I can't complain about their jumping style, I do question what it teaches them.

FHR, I'd be interested if you expanded on that a little, please!!