Lablover Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Mana, Frankly I think it is safer for you to contact an Veterinary University to answer your questions, or else possibly a greyhound vet who is up to date with the use of drugs in Canine reproductive therapeutics. As my main interest in retrieving trials I try to keep informed with the latest Anti-estrogrens - as our dogs are not allowed to run in retrieving trials if the bitch is in heat. Unfortunately as far as I aware and I was lucky enough to attend a presentation by a World reknown researcher on the subject, who pointed out long term effects are not yet known. Bearing that in mind, I would not use ANY latest on the market drugs on any future breeding (dog or bitch) stock. The risk is not worth it, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mana Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 (edited) Thanks for that Lablover. I will ask about it - the dog in question may be seeing a vet. behaviourist in the near future so they will probably be a good person to start with, failing that I'll ask at the uni vet clinic. Seems to me though that if the behaviour is learnt behaviour in a desexed male, a hormonal treatment may not be too effective, particularly if the idea about desexing and hormones affecting other dogs' reactions (rather than the desexed dog's behaviour) is true. Certainly more of a concern for the breeders, but even for us the problems of long term effects from hormone treatments are worth keeping in mind. Thanks for your reply Lablover. Edited October 20, 2005 by Mana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbell Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 I asked the lady at work and she confirmed it was a hormone injection, she remember the name of the drug and i wrote it down at work....it begins with the letter K. Sorry that is a bit vauge Im starting to ring around to see if there are any vets who know a bit more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Seems to me though that if the behaviour is learnt behaviour in a desexed male, a hormonal treatment may not be too effective, particularly if the idea about desexing and hormones affecting other dogs' reactions (rather than the desexed dog's behaviour) is true. Just speaking from experience, my boofhead mostly picks fights with dogs that react to him (if that makes sense). So if other dogs react to him differently, as if he isn't a threat or a challenge, he will possibly get into less fights? About the first point, the learned behaviour point, I was wondering about that too. But if you're going to attempt to retrain an adult dog who has learned anti-social behaviour, then perhaps these implants would be a good idea during the training process? The testosterone might not be the whole picture with these dogs anymore, but it is possibly adding fuel to the fire. Just musing - I don't really know much about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbell Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 About the first point, the learned behaviour point, I was wondering about that too. But if you're going to attempt to retrain an adult dog who has learned anti-social behaviour, then perhaps these implants would be a good idea during the training process? The testosterone might not be the whole picture with these dogs anymore, but it is possibly adding fuel to the fire. Thats what I thought to....but im far from anytype of expert. The implant might just make training a little more bearable. Just thinking out loud but earlier this year Toby was on a course of steriods for an allergy. I wonder if this would have had any effect on his behaviour as i know in humans sometimes it can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I know there is soemthing around for cats. I have an 11 yo moggy who was speyed at 7 months. Tilley could be quite nasty to both us and the other cats. She has had two injections of a female hormone when she was younger and the difference they made was amazing. If they could give cats something years ago ( last injection approx 6 years ) surely there must be something for dogs by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I asked the lady at work and she confirmed it was a hormone injection, she remember the name of the drug and i wrote it down at work....it begins with the letter K.Sorry that is a bit vauge Im starting to ring around to see if there are any vets who know a bit more about it. Something beginning with K? Hopefully you can give us the full name in time. I dislike not knowing, LOL. K?? Nope, nothing springs to mind. How frustrating!!!!!!! I cannot help wondering though, as horses, rabbits, cats blah blah blah, when neutured late, still seem to settle unless habits good and bad, are profound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDRI Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I dream of something being available to fix dog aggression. My desexed ACD, Chip, is now 3 1/2 and was neutered at age 1 and his dog aggression has not eased one iota. He lunges and barks at anything canine (or feline) when we are out. Off leash he is controlled by bringing him to my side and making him sit whenever another dog comes near and on leash I just have to preempt him by growling at him and giving his lead a sharp tug to get his attention so he is not focused on the other dog. He is terrible in the car if he sees another dog on the street as well. He is only good with our alpha male ACD/Kelpie Bud and one other dog who was introduced as a puppy to him (Cocker Spaniel). I waited til he was 1 before desexing him because I was told that he would start cocking his leg once he was sexually mature and he just never did cock his leg so I gave up and got him done when he was 1. He still has never cocked his leg and my hubby and I have a theory that it is because he is so submissive to Bud that he acts like a bitch and that is possibly why he is so aggressive to other dogs as well. He has to take out his alpha-ness somehow Happy for any advice or pointers on what the drug is. Di Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 No offense, but I'm just wondering why you want your dog to cock his leg? I'm continualy trying to persuade my dog NOT to cock his leg on everything (he's better, slowly...), so I'm quite jealous that you have the opposite problem! I figure marking is a pretty gross habit (who wants pee spots all over the garden)? Not to mention it's a hassle if you're ever trialling (you don't want a dog deciding to mark inside the ring), and a hassle if you take your dog visiting (you don't want him peeing on the strange smells in your parent's house or garden, right?) Plus I personally don't think it's a great idea to let an aggressive dog mark everywhere. My dog's aggression did improve a little after I stopped letting him mark on walks (and therefore stopped letting him claim the whole neighbourhood as his own territory). Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDRI Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 No offense, but I'm just wondering why you want your dog to cock his leg? I'm continualy trying to persuade my dog NOT to cock his leg on everything (he's better, slowly...), so I'm quite jealous that you have the opposite problem! laugh.gif I figure marking is a pretty gross habit (who wants pee spots all over the garden)? No offense taken It is my opinion that an aggressive dog will mark whether he can cock his leg or not. Instead of peeing up against everything that stands, he pees on the grass, leaving dead brown patches everywhere. I would much rather he peed against the fence or trees so it doesn't kill the lawn. Even when out walking, Bud will pee against trees or bushes or power poles and Chip will just sniff and maybe pee on the grass nearby. He doesn't actually pee a lot when out walking. Bud is the one who does and he is not dog aggressive but very alpha. Another thing is if Chip pees on the grass at home, Bud will then mark over the top of it so we have double pee killing the grass Can't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbell Posted October 22, 2005 Author Share Posted October 22, 2005 Okay so the name of the hormone she thinks is Tardak? It didnt being with K after all I guess I am lucky in that Toby doesnt seem to mark his territory at all....he has only had a couple of accidents in the house as when he came to us he wasnt toilet trained. On walks he may go for a wee maybe once...but its normally quite obvious that he needed to go. Out in the yard I havent seen him marking places...just going when he needs to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.Yeates Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Hi Everyone, I am the product manager for the new 6 month implant to stop testosterone and it seems as though there may be some confusion regarding the product. If anyone has any questions then I would advise they ring their local vet or you welcome to ask me any questions about it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.Yeates Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Hi Everyone, I am the product manager for the new 6 month implant to stop testosterone and it seems as though there may be some confusion regarding the product. If anyone has any questions then I would advise they ring their local vet or you welcome to ask me any questions about it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Hi there, Can you perhaps help us with the question of the implant v aggression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.Yeates Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Aggression can be caused by a variety of different factors. Where aggression is purely a result of testosterone - usually male inter-dog aggression - then the implant should have a positive effect on the dog. Therefore, the implants can be used to 'road-test' castration without going ahead with the surgery. If the result is favourable, then the implants can be continued every 6 months or the more permanent castration can be carried out. As most people know there are no 'quick-fixes' with behavioural problems and they always involve added training, but with the implant (or castration) alone you should expect about a 2/3 reduction in inter-male aggression, a 2/3 reduction in mounting and a 1/3 reduction in urine marking (entire males only). The implants do not have an effect if the males are already castrated. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 K. Yeates, Welcome. I was wondering how the long term effects of the canine contraception medications are proving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mana Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 The implants do not have an effect if the males are already castrated. Bugger eh? Ah well, back to the drawing board and the long slow process... Anyone got any spitz breeds or leashed dogs they'd like to sacrifice to my desensitisation program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbell Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 The implants do not have an effect if the males are already castrated Big big bugger. Back to wishing for another quick fix and that my dog will wake up to himself. Anyone got any spitz breeds or leashed dogs they'd like to sacrifice to my desensitisation program? I came home today to find my new expensive sheets have been pulled off the line so I might take you up on that one Mana PS..just in case someone takes that the wrong way I would never actually hurt my dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.Yeates Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 They can be cheeky sometimes! (gives you an excuse to buy more sheets!) Lablover, With the deslorelin implants there have been no noted effects to fertility in trials after five repeated injections (testosterone suppressed for 2.5-3 years). While the drug is effective there is a slight disuse atropy of the testes, that resolves once the implant has worn off and the testes are producing testosterone and sperm again. Thank's for the welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mana Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 The implants do not have an effect if the males are already castrated Big big bugger. Back to wishing for another quick fix and that my dog will wake up to himself. Anyone got any spitz breeds or leashed dogs they'd like to sacrifice to my desensitisation program? I came home today to find my new expensive sheets have been pulled off the line so I might take you up on that one Mana PS..just in case someone takes that the wrong way I would never actually hurt my dog. How about I trade you a new set of sheets if you can insert some commonsense into my big black bundle of canine neuroses aka Ruski? I don't think there was anything in your post that went even remotely near suggesting you would hurt your dogs... Thanks for the information K Yeates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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