Feet Splaying

[shekhina]

Will do, thanks

[MolassesLass]

I too believe in the raised bowls added to adequate vitamin C intake.

This not only helps splayed feet, but dropped pasterns and east-west fronts.

I use coop-cups as dog bowls (made for birds) so I can hang them on the wire on the dogs pens and raise as they get bigger.

Thanks for the info on bloat though, didn't realise this and will watch Duke (Bullmastiff) more carefully. He had very splayed feet at 8 weeks and they have improved HEAPS in the 3.5 weeks he's been with me with raised bowl and plenty of vitamin C.

[espinay2]

I stand to be corrected 

Purdue are the leaders in studies on GDV/Bloat. Here is some info from their website which is important reading for anyone with a bloat prone breed: http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/bloat.htm

Raised feeders have been shown in the Purdue studies to increase the incidence of Bloat. In fact 20 and 52% of cases of GDV among the large breed and giant breed dogs, respectively, were attributed to having a raised feed bowl.

Edited October 17, 2005 by espinay2

[ellz]

Not related to dogs but may give food for thought.

Most horse nutrionists recommend feeding horses from ground level to help avoid air emboli which can also contribute to colic.

Also Shek, you can purchase Glucosamine and Vit C from Health Food shops or even from the supermarket. And if you're in town check out the Pharmacy Warehouse because they're really good on prices as well.

[shekhina]

Thanks for all the info guys.

I get paid tomorrow so will go in search of glucosamine. I'm a little worried about adding calcium as overdosing can cause more problems. Does anyone have any information on perhaps how much I should add to his feeds and how often? I would hate to do something wrong.

I will try raising his bowl, and keep an eye on him for bloat.

[haven]

Just to add - DO NOT try to supplement calcium yourself. If you suspect there may be a calcium deficiency go to your vet to 1) diagnose and 2) give you the dosage for the calcium.

Over supplementing can lead to a whole bunch of other problems in a 5mth old Rotti.

Couldn't agree more!

If your pup gets plenty of raw chicken then he should get enough calcium.

Do you give him water straight from the tap?

[shekhina]

Yes, Daegon drinks tap water with ACV (most day).

[Steve]

O.K. Better hang on a minute.

Firstly dont elevate the feeding bowl and as a metter of fact you would be better to throw the feeding bowl away altogether,

Dont add vitamin C unless its inthe form of orange juice as adding vitamin C alone in a dog causes problems .In a pup especially dogs produce their own vitamin C and adding it to their diet has an effect which makes them stop doing what they are supposed to be doing naturally As long as all else is going in which the pup needs to metabolise the nutrients so it can produce vitamin C, supplimenting has an adverse effect,

Dont add extra calcium as the pup is getting enough with the commertcial and the wings but I would cut out the mince unles its chicken pet mince.

A much simpler remedy is to give the dog some childrens chewable vitamin and mineral tabs or a liquid will do and add some apple cider vinegar .Personally Id cut out the commercial and increase the wings . If you're going to go with the glucosamine it works better and has more chance of doing what its supposed to do if it has condriontin and MSM with it.

If you have fluoride in your water it may be an idea to give him non fluoride water for at least a few weeks.

[shekhina]

OK, so some people are saying it's a dietry thing, others are saying to raise the bowls, some are saying add calcium others are saying definately don't add calcium...getting rather confused here

Daegon is staying on kibble, it's my preference for his feeding, he's a damn fussy eater as it is and there's NO way he's going to go back to eating just chicken wings again. The pet mince is mostly ground up chicken carcass with lots of other stuff thrown in from what I can tell.

Daegon already gets ACV in his water on most days, when I remember...chewable vitamins, like the kids ones?? Also why the fluoride free water?

[Toohey]

If I were you, I would be taking Steve's advice.

She has many years of study and experience in breeding and raising/managing several different breeds of dog.

My dogs have benefited enormously from her knowledge.

Daegon is staying on kibble, it's my preference for his feeding, he's a damn fussy eater as it is and there's NO way he's going to go back to eating just chicken wings again.

If you have no intention of following the advice given, why ask for it?

Do you believe YOUR preference for feeding dry kibble is what is best for your dog?

[shekhina]

If you have no intention of following the advice given, why ask for it?

Do you believe YOUR preference for feeding dry kibble is what is best for your dog?

YES, actually I DO think it's the best thing for my dog. It certainly hasn't been the best thing for me trying different kibbles to find one that he likes.

Daegon gets very fussy with his food, he went through a stage where he would eat NOTHING but chicken wings, and I mean NOTHING. That is NOT a healthy diet, sure, if he ate other things along with it and he preferred that diet to kibble then I would feed him that...but he doesn't. He's happy eating kibble now, I know it's got the things in it he needs and he AND I are happy with that.

I have been through this over and over here. I am asking for advice, and if I knock something back that doesn't mean I'm not listening to everything else.

[Steve]

Dr Kennedy in one of his articles and presentations on fluoride wrote quote.

The fluoride in the pet food can cripple the dog. If the pet food contains ground bone meal then it will be high in fluoride since the animal stores the fluoride in the bones over a lifetime. Therefore the secret to the dietary treatment for arthritis in animals is “no ground bone meal.”

There's lots of research which tells us of an adverse impact of fluoride for dogs especially on their joints and long bones. I cant access the references for you at the moment as Im packing and cant get to the text books. But it does seem to tell us that some breeds of dog seem to be more suseptible to fluoride than others.

Its just a bit of a safeguard when you see something like this happening to cover your bases .

Quick question is the dog getting much sunlight?

[shekhina]

Thanks for that Steve. Would ground bone meal be found on the ingredients list, listed as such or perhaps under a different name?? Also, Daegon gets plenty of sunlight when he's outside for at least part of the day.

[Steve]

Here's some links .

http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/014.html

http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/013.html

http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/Rottweiler.html

[Steve]

It all does get a bit confusing and much of what you have been told is right but Im really against supplimenting just one nutrient as there is no such thing as a nutrient which doesnt rely on others to do its job. When you go for just one there's a high probability that you will end up over or under supplimenting causing more problems overtime. Its little bits of everything and not lots of one or two that will help for the long term.

[shekhina]

Thanks Steve, looks like I've got some reading to do

[Dogsfevr]

All my large breeds are feed on raised bowls & if you believed every bloat research done you would never own a large breed.

Every tom,dick & harry have done research on the topic & come up with different results,the only thing they do agree on is commonsense feeding,all the studies have been done by experts .

In my breed they did major studies into the issue & realized that many theories didnt come true.

I have for 20 plus yrs feed on raised bowls not for bloat but for ease of eating.

I am of the belief if the feet where bad from day 1 & the dog has been feed correctly then it is meant to be,diet can be a factor & yes whilst teething some breeds seem to have feet issues but many go overboard & do more harm.

[Erny]

I presume splaying feet in an older dog would likely to be merely an age thing? She's definately not overweight. She's 12 yo. I noticed it when she was about 10 yo. In the last year and half she's had incidences of irritable bowel, so you've got me worried about nutrition.

[arawnhaus]

This is an oldie .....

Steve, You mention giving Orange juice, how much? I have a pup four and a half months old now,who has always been a little low in pastern,I think it could be half genetic, his breeder also gave them vitamin c with a raw diet no other supplement. He's on a different diet now and over time has improved. I've never had a dog or puppy with a low or loose pastern before,so it's not something I've needed to research. He's on bonnie with some raw, like wings, beef,ox heart no longer any heart.He was eating yoghurt and cheese but I've removed them too and I've been keeping him on the lighter side. He's been going to the beach which I know is good for fixing fronts,Swimming/sand.I lift his front to suspend him, his feet are dead straight,when stacking I slightly adjust him and it's not there.He runs/walks straight no sign of anything.He places himself shockingly at times,he has substantial bone for a pup his age,hopefully it's nothing more......

Advice welcome!

The first pic is the best, the middle is worst.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Delkerabo

[espinay2]

I currently have a six month old who has just been through the up and down that sideways thing for the last couple of months (while teething etc as well). Lovely and straight now, but always a worry when it is happening, isn't it.

I feed raw and pup is supplemented with vitamin C daily. What I did though is REDUCE the amount of bone in the diet, or rather feed a higher percentage of meat without bone during this period. For example, I may give a chunk of boneless meat for breakfast and chicken pieces/frames/turkey necks/lamb flaps or other boney style meats etc for dinner. He was still getting plenty of calcium - just not too much. I found that if I fed 'boney' meals in the night as well as the morning for too many days he would go 'off' but would come back together when I changed one meal to an all meat or mostly meat meal.

Some things I suggest reading are the articles on the website www.b-naturals.com - particularly the ones on protein and pups and raising puppies - and Ian Billinghursts book "grow your pups with bones". While I do things differently from them, and dont agree with everything they say, they do talk about some of the basic principles that I have applied in relation to calcium etc.

FWIW