fifi trixibell Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I want to give our girls a stay command and have found a variety of ways of doing this but am curious for effective, current methods, used by all of us of DOL. I would like to know how I can get them to stay (dropping is another task) while using clicker training and positive reinforcement. Thanks Ange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Most common way is to stand beside the dog, hand signal + "stay", step to the front for one second then Click/Treat. Get to about 10 secs of "standing in front" stay and then next repetition step backwards one more step and decrease the time when you increase the distance. I would do a sit/stay before a drop/stay cos so many of them start to drop during a sit/stay. My girl *hates* the stay, but she picked it up very easily as I made sure it was never ever more than she could handle. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazz Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Agree with Tess32, but before I reward I step back into original position beside the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Rocks My World Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 HI guys :D sorry to get a bit distracted on ur subject Fifi in all my training and trialing, ive never done the clicking training thing. ive seen posts of you guys talking bout it, but not sure what it is and how its applied....? if you train with it, surely you can't apply it in a actual trial tho, can you??? ive never even see it done, ive been out of serious training for a couple of years now can someone direct me on more info from past threads pleaseee, before i start a new topic again. thanks...once again sorry Fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazz Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 They are much better people on here than me to talk to you about clicker training MSJ but as for applying it to a trial you must remember that whether you train with clicker/food/toy none can be taken into the ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Rocks My World Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 They are much better people on here than me to talk to you about clicker training MSJ but as for applying it to a trial you must remember that whether you train with clicker/food/toy none can be taken into the ring thanks Hazz, thats what i thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mana Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I'm a comparative novice in the "teaching stay" stakes - but just to add to what Tess32 and Hazz have said, our socialisation class teacher differentiates between "wait" and "stay" in a way that makes sense to me. For a "stay", the dog is never released, marked and treated, until you are back with the dog. They must learn never to leave the stay until you are back at their side. In training it was suggested that rather than letting them break from the stay towards where you have been standing, we should return to them and release them in the opposite direction to where you've been coming from - i.e. they have to turn around to follow you... Does that make sense? Such that in training at least, they are never released from the stay to walk forwards towards you. The "wait" involves a stop or pause - i.e. before eating their dinner, before crossing a road, but when marked, treated and released, they can continue towards you / with you - i.e. towards you to their dinner, with you over the road etc. I don't think I've explained that very clearly, have I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patch Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Nah Mana you explained it well! i do like the idea of creating that difference between 'wait' and 'stay'. The first time I went to a positive training class it was 'stay' that I noticed the main difference in training - and it was exactly what ppl suggested in that you return to the dog to release rather than getting the dog to come to you. Luckily I fluked on the thing of using 'wait' for dinner etc instead of stay... I am also now just learning clicker training and yes as ppl have said, I am being taught to do very small steps and click/treat after a few seconds while being right with the dog... later will start to increase both distance and duration but not both at the same time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Hey You can't take it in, but as someone said you can't take any training aids in, heck you can't even use a lead for heeling once you're past novice. Either way, you don't need to. A clicker savvy dog knows click = CORRECT. It's *just* a marker and a bridge between "yep that's right" and "here is your reward". There's no need to click a known behaviour, because the dog knows it is right. The clicker is used to *train* behaviours and shape behaviours, there's no need to continue using it on a particular behaviour forever, it's redundant. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi trixibell Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Thanks guys. I have tried it in the past with them focussed on me directly in front of them, while they are sitting. Then stepping back one small step. However once I take the step, they come forward the same amount and sit again. I think it is because they are more focussed on the reward than on me I will try standing beside them and doing it and see it that changes it. Ange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogibear Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I use stop which is the same as wait for crossing the road etc dog just has to stop forward movement I dont use stay or wait i build duration on the sit and drop etc and then the dog learns to hold that position until either marked or asked to do something eles say retrieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 The one reason I don't like NOT using an extra "stay" or "wait" command is because a lot of people (including me) sometimes say "sit" while I am waiting for something and distracted and just want the dog out of the way, and because I'm not fully concentrating on the dog or in training mode, I don't want to be weakening the "stay" every time he gets up during these kinds of situations. I also think most people find it easier to have a seperate STAY and WAIT command as people like to break down things. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I cheat a little and forget what I learnt when I did obedience training. My dogs know sit pretty early. And as I feel vocal cues are the last thing dogs marry up with a command, a use sit and give a hand signal. Eventually I start using stay or wait. I have no shame in repeating sit sit sit as say distance becomes a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 PS How I do in prey drive is more fun but too complicated for me to explain, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 K9: complicated or not, tell us... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 K9: complicated or not, tell us... lol Man, your tough. Trying to explain is going to give me a headache. I will try to give it a go after lunch. I need to make come calls. Excuses excuses excuses!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 LL: Man, your tough K9: & then some... LL: Trying to explain is going to give me a headache. I will try to give it a go after lunch. I need to make come calls. K9": Im not answering my phone.... lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I don't have a stay command. The use of a release command negates the need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I don't have a stay command. The use of a release command negates the need. I can understand after the stay/wait or prolonged sit (until commanded otherwise) is known, but when training the exercise as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Yeppers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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