Pet Obedience Trainer Course

[yogibear]

well i dont know if location would be on the top of the list for course suitability i think content and whose running itwould be the most important thing

[haven]

True, but I can see how living interstate would be more than a minor inconvenience. Having said that, I've done it and can't recommend it highly enough. In almost every NDTF course there have been a few people from interstate and there are even students from overseas. If you can arrange it, you will certainly never regret it

Good news about the distance education, Jan is only a few months away!!!

[Staranais]

I have talked to one woman who worked for Delta, and she said that Delta is a very "positive" organisation. Not just as in focused on reinforcement, but as in actively discouraging people from ever physically disciplining their dogs at all. She used a prong on her dog at home, and said several of the other Delta people did, but their work wouldn't let them suggest them to customers.

I don't know how true all that it, though - it's just what I was told.

[wagsalot]

well i dont know if location would be on the top of the list for course suitability i think content and whose running itwould be the most important thing

well its a huge thing for me considering id have a 10 hour drive each way, each month to attend. as well as having to give up work a day a week and still trying to run a business.

[Gone Grey]

well i dont know if location would be on the top of the list for course suitability i think content and whose running itwould be the most important thing

well its a huge thing for me considering id have a 10 hour drive each way, each month to attend. as well as having to give up work a day a week and still trying to run a business.

Yep! I'd be interested too but try doing it from Perth!!

[Mel774]

From what I have seen and in my opinion, DELTA teaches with biased view on dog training, where NDTF looks at it from every spectrum.

If you like positive training, go with Delta. I for one have never allowed anyone to use check chains in my class and never ever will. If you want to learn how to train purely positively then Delta is great. I never had any intention of training any other way and Delta has been fantastic for helping me develop positive skills. I thought the course intensives were fantastic, loads of fun and really great information. Made lots of friends, can't wait to see them again next year! As someone who was already learning to train at a positive club, but looking for more ideas and an accreditation, I found Delta to be perfect. Loved it! A lot of the course fee is actually toward food and accommodation (they totally spoil you with the food too, it was awesome - much to everyone's shock!) and you pay in installments (roughly $500 every 3 months)

From what I have seen on the forum, people who study/have studied through Delta don't have as much of a tendency to look down their noses at people who have done NDTF, which I cant say about the other way around. I rarely even use the training section for this reason. I think it's often biased training the other way.

[Herr Rottweiler]

So what you're actually telling everyone is that there is only one way to train a dog and that's the way Delta trains? Funny because the people at NDTF and the students, (who look down their noses at eveyone (your words)) tend to be very open minded and excepting of all methods of training and they learn that not all dogs are the same, they are not human and they are not Dolphins.

I'm pleased for you that you found a training method that suits you but don't personally attack NDTF people when it's based on your opinion.

[yogibear]

sorry Mel i disagree on the down the nose thing i was speaking with a delta person only recently who was quite rude and arrogant about the way she trains as being the only way to train a dog..

I have only spoken woth Ndtf people on here and though have often felt the same thing with a few im also willing to give the benefit of the doubt as typing tends to remove a lot of what we are trying to sday i know i reread some of my own posts and thought god i sound like a b#$% Plus peoples personalities are nothing to do with the courses they have done and regardless of a persons beliefs on what is the best way to go about training a dog we are all going to be defensive and some of us do ge emoitionally involved when our ideals are challenged

[Pippi]

From what I have seen on the forum, people who study/have studied through Delta don't have as much of a tendency to look down their noses at people who have done NDTF, which I cant say about the other way around. I rarely even use the training section for this reason. I think it's often biased training the other way.

I'm really glad to hear that you enjoyed your course Mel774, good for you.. I have completed the NDTF course and neither I nor anyone else I know, "looks down their noses" at anyone who has completed a different course. Do you personally know anyone who has completed the NDTF course to make such a rash statement?

Anyone who has completed any course usually does so with the best interests of dogs at heart, so I applaud anyone who loves dogs that much. But I dont agree with your opinion on NDTF trainers and students. Shame you have such a closed mind on training methods - all NDTF trainers that I know are perfectly happy and willing to look at a variety of methods enabling them to take into account the temperament of the particular dog that they may be training and what would be best for that particular dog and handler.

Also is a pity that you feel you "don't use the training section" of this forum for the reason you mention. Again I would have thought that an open minded/enquiring dog trainer would be happy to learn from others in any forum and just maybe pick up some new information from someone else which may help in given situations. I certainly feel that I am a better trainer for the education I received at NDTF, which put forward various of methods of training and then allowed me to be the best judge of what was acceptable to me. Personally I think thats what any good education is about, opening ones mind to many opinions, theories and thoughts, not just looking at one.

[yogibear]

Hi Pippi

we were having this exact conversation today about closed mimded trainers from all walks of life

I have met closed minded trainers that wont budge on using a verbal marker rather than a clicker and trainers that still believe the only way to get results is to make them do it They close their eyes to ideas and are missing out on so much good information

Though i use very positive training style myself i dont shut out those who use other methods some of the best training tips i have been given have come from people who are to me extremely hard on their dogs so if i had shut them out because i didnt agree with the way they train then i would never have learnt the things i have

Does that make any sense at all

[Pippi]

I have met closed minded trainers that wont budge on using a verbal marker rather than a clicker and trainers that still believe the only way to get results is to make them do it They close their eyes to ideas and are missing out on so much good information

Though i use very positive training style myself i dont shut out those who use other methods some of the best training tips i have been given have come from people who are to me extremely hard on their dogs so if i had shut them out because i didnt agree with the way they train then i would never have learnt the things i have

Does that make any sense at all

Right-on YB

My point exactly.. A good trainer will always have a tool bag full of different tricks and tools. Always prepared for THAT dog, where the usual tools may not work..

[yogibear]

Hi Pippi

Yup you have to love those outside the square dogs though they are the best teachers i think

yb

[haven]

If you want to learn how to train purely positively then Delta is great.

Or you can do the NDTF course and learn that there is no such thing as purely positive reinforcement. Plus you will learn to train all the dogs that don't respond to +reinforcement. If I had a dollar for every idiot that told me my GSD was untrainable because he wouldn't take food treats....

From what I have seen on the forum, people who study/have studied through Delta don't have as much of a tendency to look down their noses at people who have done NDTF, which I cant say about the other way around.

Seems to me that the only person looking down their nose is you and I must say I'm shocked, I didn't think you were like that.

[Erny]

From what I have seen on the forum, people who study/have studied through Delta don't have as much of a tendency to look down their noses at people who have done NDTF, which I cant say about the other way around. I rarely even use the training section for this reason. I think it's often biased training the other way.

Have just read this thread. Must say I was somewhat surprised by this poster's slander on people who have trained under NDTF.

I'm NDTF trained, and proud of that. It's given me a fantastic broad training knowledge and experience base on which to further enhance my knowledge and skills. I attend other programs/seminars (positive & others) and have contemplated doing the DELTA course when I have the time and the money. It's all about exploration and learning. NDTF encourage that and welcome our feedback and discussions of new/different ideas. Would you be as open-minded, Mel774?

I get on very well with a lady well known by "Deltorians" - I love bantering with her and trying on various training methods and ideas "for size". She is a wealth of knowledge and assisted me greatly when I was preparing my "Avoidance Motivated Aggression" Behaviour thesis for one of the NDTF courses I was doing.

There's alot of NDTF trained trainers who have put alot of time in this forum responding to people's request for help with their dog training issues. To comment as you have, Mel implies to me a lack of confidence - evidenced further by your avoidance to the training forum.

It's not "our" forum, so you don't need an invite .... but we'd be glad if you would join in to swap views and ideas with the rest of us ........ it's all in the interest of "continued learning".

Edited October 15, 2005 by Erny

[Herr Rottweiler]

sorry Mel i disagree on the down the nose thing i was speaking with a delta person only recently who was quite rude and arrogant about the way she trains as being the only way to train a dog..

Yogi, I would have to agree with you there. I'm not Delta bashing because I do understand that some people are happy to look at different approaches with dog training and that's totally their prerogative.

Totally Positive training is not the only way in training, it's just one way and it's not right or wrong but it won't always work.

I had a lady who was "Delta accredited", (We knew this this as she gushed it forward so many times) giving me and my demo team a talking to at a festival because we had correction chains on the dogs! Mind you all the dogs were being food rewarded or had their toys, but Oh no! She was on her soap box good and proper. Sad thing was that she made an 'ass' of herself and discredited her organisation in front of a few hundred people, not to mention the fact that what she did was extremely rude.

Now i'm not suggesting that this is how Delta educates people as this was based on the individual but she was clearly out of order and I don't need to justify to anyone why a dog is wearing a correction chain when there is no wrong being done to the dog.

"The need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind."

Albert Camus

[yogibear]

Hi HR

Yes the collar doesnt maketh the training method. Mind yu i was verbally assaulted at a trial once for having my dog in a solid collar Apparently i was trying to show someone up it couldnt posibly have been that the dog i was trialling had come to us after several other people had totally abused the poor thing in the name of trialling and she would literally shake in her boots because you held up a chain of any sort becasue she had had them thrown at her as well as being strung up by them.

I trin my dogs using purely positive because i enjoy trianingthat way and am finding it fun But i am also working with a small group that dont use food o toys and we ae slowly bouncing ideas of each other and they are beginning to expand their knowledge they are open minded to new ideas and want to learn Most of them realise their trianing needs a bit of updating but also admit that they just havent felt comfortale around the positive brigade because they seem arrogant

Im trying really hadr to get rid of the them and us stigma we are all trainers we should learn how all methods work if for no other eaon thn to understand where the other person is coming from I am trying to dothis myself because i would not have been able to trian the dogs i have and enjoy the sport i do if i had had a closed mind and never listened to epoeples opinios on things

[Herr Rottweiler]

I agree. I'm not at all opposed to using positive training methods as I have mentioned in many posts.

My belief is the purely positive can have as many undesirable effects as purley compulsive. Great trainers will utilise a combination of both positive and negative in their training schedule.

[yogibear]

Totally agree HR i have met some clicker dogs that are very stressed and tend to be very reactive dogs no different to their traditionally trianed counterparts

[Steve K9Pro]

Mel774:

If you like positive training, go with Delta. I for one have never allowed anyone to use check chains in my class and never ever will.

& then...

Mel774:

From what I have seen on the forum, people who study/have studied through Delta don't have as much of a tendency to look down their noses at people who have done NDTF, which I cant say about the other way around.

K9: I feel the first quote accurately covers a large section of Delta trainers, there is their way, & the wont hear or allow any other...

At least the NDTF encompases every method of dog training... Thats called accpeting, not denying...

People come to me with a vast array of tools, it makes no difference if I think that tool is of any use or not, thats what we use if it is working. That means people with clickers, check chains etc turn up & they are welcomed equally.

Mel774:

I rarely even use the training section for this reason.

K9: Maybe thats because you wont allow certain types of training suggestions or tools?

Your welcome to contribute any time to any discussion, I will say though that, if your giving improper advice that hasnt worked, wont work, or will endanger the dog or handler, you will be challenged on it.

[Herr Rottweiler]

BRAVO!