I Know It Was Probably The Wrong Thing To Do

[Pippi]

Hi, Sorry to hijak (it's been quite some time since I've been online).

Hey, welcome back Kelpie-i.. Good to see you back on deck. :p

[TangerineDream]

Have also used the spray bottle (plant mister type with the very fine spray or the light jet) to good effect for 20 years and 4 dogs eg: when I've wanted a dog to lie down in the car or I'm in a position that I can't reach them but they need a correction - works wonders!! (instantly). Same dogs were perfectly happy to drink from the same bottle outside the show ring on hot days and loved playing with the hose.

It's all in the way you apply it as a correction - if you use it in tandem with a growl from you or a 'no', the dog will quickly learn to associate the 2 in that situation and all you do after that is pick up the bottle - they aren't scared of it, but they understand the correction that comes with it. It's a gentle stream of water, not a gush and certainly not something that would frighten.

It's no different a correction than raising a finger and saying "Don't even think about it!"...

[haven]

Obviously I should have specified that it was a loose example of what i was trying to convey. Of course the dog is going to see a spray bottle and a body of water diferently, what I meant was, if you squirt with the hose, the dog becomes afraid of the hose, tip a bucket of water over the dog, etc etc.

I was also not suggesting that using the spray bottle doesn't work or that it always has negative contingencies, just making the point that people should be aware of the possible consequences of using such punishers. I actually have used one on my cat and it worked a treat and like others she now runs as soon as i pick up the bottle, even if I am not focusing it on her. She won't go anywhere near the bathroom as we have one hanging in plain sight next to the bench. This sort of thing can be an issue for some people, hence the comment.

About time you found your way back here kelpie-i, I wondered where you had got to!

[Rusky]

The problems I have with this method are 1) you are bribing the dog, not reinforcing the behaviour you want and 2) you are inadvertantly reinforcing the dogs lack of attention IE dog is distracted, out comes a treat, therefore the dog learns to become less attentive

haven we would be reinforcing the behaviour which is attention, this dog has had none or little training.

I would suggest that treats for attention are preferable to water squirting. What is the water squirting all about?

If attention and recall are practised at home there is absolutely no bribe, just a reward and for a dog which has had little training a lure, praise, reward for accepted behaviour. The accepted or eventual conditioned behaviour will be attention the reinforcement, praise and treat then just praise, you know how it works.....

[Staranais]

haven we would be reinforcing the behaviour which is attention, this dog has had none or little training.

The above is true if you ask the dog for attention, then when he complies you bring out the treats and reward him.

But I was under the impression (from your post) that if the dog got distracted, you brought out a treat and showed it to the dog to get the dog's attention? In effect, what you're doing there is reinforcing the dog for non-attention. The dog is inattentive to you, which gets him a treat. He's not actually learning anything except that you have food, and might give it to him with no effort needed on his own part. See what I'm saying?

Big difference - and I'm not sure which one you're doing?

What is the water squirting all about?

I think it's meant to be a pattern interupt. If the dog is focussing on something else and ignoring you, a quick squirt will theoretically break his focus on whatever he is finding so fascinating. Haven't used it myself.

[Kavik]

The fact that my dog would run if I have a squirt bottle may not bother some people, but I found it caused problems. If I took Zoe to my OH's hockey games, she got scared when people were drinking from water bottles, if I was cleaning the house etc she would hide under the bed. Zoe is the kind of dog that tends to overreact to things including noises, so it may not affect other dogs as much.

[Kelpie-i]

About time you found your way back here kelpie-i, I wondered where you had got to!

LOL, I never thought anyone would notice I was gone. I have been ill and have just had an operation to have a benign tumour removed from my brain. Am recovering at home now.

I agree with Aussky, it's the approach in which you administer the correction with the spray bottle, however there are certainly some overly sensitive dogs who make generalised associations and become wary of everything water related.

As Am stated, it interrupts the behaviour - sort of "snaps" the dog out of what he is focussed on. Once the dog has stopped, the handler can ask for focus or for whatever command with the dog in a calmer state, in which case it will be more likely to comply.

I believe this to be a very effective way of correction with an untrained dog and novice handler. :p

[Guest Tess32]

But I was under the impression (from your post) that if the dog got distracted, you brought out a treat and showed it to the dog to get the dog's attention? In effect, what you're doing there is reinforcing the dog for non-attention.

I agree...if the dog doesn't know an attention cue, you capture attention and reinforce it when given voluntarily, not bribe it.

Nat

[Rusky]

yes I do agree when I re read my original post I see the confusion as I put the suggestions in the wrong order.

major computer probs with IT broadband connection and I get cut off all the time so hurry to post.