yogibear Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 you herr rottweiler but i just answered my own question in intros yb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 We've already established previously on here that ANYONE is allowed to give their opinion and advice - it is open to all and credentials do not have to be stated. I personally like to hear from anyone - not just people who have a certificate or are from a certain club. If you'd like the training forum to be moderated so that people must have X amount of experience before they advise, I suggest you take it up with Troy. That said, bad advice is bad advice and good advice is good advice, no matter how many or how little dogs you've trained. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 WHOA! Don't get defensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 No defense here - just explaining how the forum works IMO. I simply want everyone to feel welcome in expressing their views, and not feel intimidated by anyone. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 No defense here - just explaining how the forum works IMO. I simply want everyone to feel welcome in expressing their views, and not feel intimidated by anyone. Nat Referring back to my question, I can't see an intimidating underline there at all? My curiosity was what where and how others had learned to train dogs. Yogi, yes i'm one of those ADT people too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogibear Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) Nat it isnt worth it yb Edited October 3, 2005 by yogibear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hi Kitty, Just because someone told you to do something doesn't mean it is right for your pup. Me personaly, I would place a single finger on a puppy, body language is enough to get attention, a firm No is enough. Puppies are naughty little buggers, you have to have a whole heap of patience. Sure a pups mum would dicipline her puppies, but we're not Dogs, we don't know how hard she is scruffing her puppy or many other factors, so instead of causing any problems down the track don't dicipline the dog with your hands IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) I too would probably prefer a mild verbal aversive along with a scowl or hard stare, followed by redirecting the pup to a more appropriate chew toy (and giving him heaps of positive attention for chewing on that). Like Tess said, the pup isn't being willfully disobedient, he merely doesn't know any better at this stage. IMO it's unfair to scare or physically punish him for doing something he didn't realise was "wrong". On the other hand, if you are just holding the pup still by the scruff (rather than shaking him by the scruff or picking him up by the scruff), I guess I can see little wrong with that. How is holding a pup still by the scruff worse to holding him still by any other part of the body? Just my opinion, as normal, and not a qualified one. Edited October 3, 2005 by Amhailte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Sas HR - It's great that Kitty's concerns and questions can be wrapped up in pm's. Lucky there are ADT'ers on here for her eh? Hope to hear from you again kitty. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 HR - It's great that Kitty's concerns and questions can be wrapped up in pm's. Lucky there are ADT'ers on here for her eh? Yes lucky for her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 (edited) From what I can gather, ADT actually rang Kitty and discussed her question with her in person. I'd call that service! Edited October 4, 2005 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyBC Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 my pup would chew everything in sight, even though she has a tonne of her own toys. Basically when i caught her i told her "no, not yours" and then handed her one of her toys and said "good girl", then played with her and her toy. After about a month she only does it on the odd occasion, and no longer drags eveything from my room into the living room! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Basically when i caught her i told her "no, not yours" and then handed her one of her toys and said "good girl", then played with her and her toy. That's good, if it's working for you, LuvMyBc. For some people and their pups, however, immediately offering a chew thing could be seen by the pup as a reward for having gone to chew on the thing they shouldn't have. Hence, one of the methods I normally recommend is the one where the pup is "startled" (so it stops what it was doing), distracted by a recall or such like, and then offer a chew thing and praise when it chews it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 (edited) Edited. Double post. Is anyone else having problems with this? Edited October 4, 2005 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 That's good, if it's working for you, LuvMyBc. For some people and their pups, however, immediately offering a chew thing could be seen by the pup as a reward for having gone to chew on the thing they shouldn't have.Hence, one of the methods I normally recommend is the one where the pup is "startled" (so it stops what it was doing), distracted by a recall or such like, and then offer a chew thing and praise when it chews it. Erny! The aim behind any successful training program is to modify unwanted behaviour and then reward desirable behaviour not simply redirect the pup onto another item. Puppies must learn that mouthing the alpha is totally unacceptable behaviour which will result in some kind of aversive outcome. Even little puppies are smart enough to learn where their advantage lies if their training is structed correctly. I have always been firm but very fair with all my puppies and never ever had my dogs learn to fear me. This isn't only proven with my own dogs, it is also proven with the 1000's of puppies that I have been directly involved in training, all with very positive outcomes in show, working, obedience and pet puppies. Might I also add for the flame throwers that I absolutely detest cruelty to animals as I find it the worst act of cowardise in the book! I'm also not a fan of Anthropomorphism as I find it insulting to a dog who will never know anymore to life than how to be a dog. :pant: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Like Tess said, the pup isn't being willfully disobedient, he merely doesn't know any better at this stage. IMO it's unfair to scare or physically punish him for doing something he didn't realise was "wrong". There is training for action and there is training for abstenance. No Kitty is not the dam of this pup, even more importantly IMO she is supposed to be the alpha. This means it is up to her to teach Minx what is and is not appropriate behaviour and to dispence reinforcement or punishment as waranted. I personally don't agree with the use of harsh punishment on puppies, nor any other dog and that is also the philosophy of ADT. Kitty was NOT advised to pick the dog up by the scruff and see how many times she could swing her around the room, she was advised how best to use her body language to communicate to communicate that her pup was behaving in an undesirable way. In the red book that is given free to all of ADT members, this and many other behavioural issues are discussed at length with many solutions given including puppy proofing your home, sin bining, providing appropriate chew items and a combination of many is advised. Obviously it depends on the dog as to which is most appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgm Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 personally, I would simply use an OUT correction. This involves yelling OUT at the top of your lungs and then immediately ignoring the dog. This will scare the dog - it is meant to. I have used this method to stop a number of behaviors such as chewing with no ill effects. If done correctly I can't see the problem. The answer btw, to stopping your dog from running away is to simply put a lead on the dog and allow him/her to drag it around the house. Get a light piece of rope for instance if the lead is too heavy or cumbersome. Also, btw, I wouldn't grab the pup as I don't want to associate the correction with me. At no stage would I give eye contact to the dog - I simply yell OUT and immediately walk off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Basically when i caught her i told her "no, not yours" and then handed her one of her toys and said "good girl", then played with her and her toy. That's good, if it's working for you, LuvMyBc. For some people and their pups, however, immediately offering a chew thing could be seen by the pup as a reward for having gone to chew on the thing they shouldn't have. Hence, one of the methods I normally recommend is the one where the pup is "startled" (so it stops what it was doing), distracted by a recall or such like, and then offer a chew thing and praise when it chews it. If LuvMyBC does this correctly and had conditioned the "NO" to mean...well, No (that's a whole other discussion, lets just assume it's been done), then it is the same as what you said earlier and the NO startles/stops the puppy and then puppy is then set up for success by giving it to the new, appropriate chew toy and rewarding. I don't really see how the puppy would be reinforced when the "no" has already stopped the puppy (and presumably acted as a mild aversive)? Haven - I don't think this sounds like an "alpha" issue, the puppy hasn't even yet been taught what is acceptable. Lets be clear - I disagree with Kitty being told to physically grab the puppy in this instance - do you guys? Also Kitty said earlier she felt what she did was right - really? Wasn't the punishment LATE? As the puppy has already run off, she catches up with it, punishes it - isn't it being punished for running off (the last immediate action) and not the chewing anyway? Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Haven - I don't think this sounds like an "alpha" issue, the puppy hasn't even yet been taught what is acceptable. I never said it was an alpha "issue" I said that as the alpha it was up to Kitty to teach Minx what is and isn't acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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