Erny Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Good for you, LuvMyBc ..... I'm sure you'll enjoy yourselves! Be sure to re-visit here and let us know how you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 So is the planet K9 in Nth melb the one that was in lilydale, run by Nicole Beasley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vizsla Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Yes Planet K9 is run by Nicole who also ran it at Lilydale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Some great answers there guys and I'm glad I got you all thinking! Tess32, of course there is a line, you're right but now, (some) poeple who are chossing to train with purely positive methods act like they have a licence to police how dogs are trained. It's funny you say that, as we had a discussion on here not long ago where people were asking how a PP trainer would treat a particular behavioural problem. As I am on a very popular clicker training list, I thought I'd post to see if I could find any PP trainers on there to reply. Not one could be found! Perhaps you have more access to them being a trainer yourself, but I find that they must be a tiny tiny minority and so I find comparing PP trainers to anyone else kinda pointless. As far as I recall, no one on DOL put their hands up at the time. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Tess32, for some reason they are quite and unassuming until they see a correction chain and then they strike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herding_guy Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 With holding food for an hour??? heaven forbid....some people!!!I think some people should have a reality check & see how a real working dog lives, it makes me shudder to think how we lived, never mind the dogs. When camping away from home, eating our mutton sandwhichs (lamb was for wusses) with sheep shit under our finger nails, sleeping in rat infested huts & the dogs got what we didn't eat. Road kill was a treat for the dogs. A good dog was worth 3 men & a bad dog........ well there wasn't any. Harsh but that was the way it was, way back then. What do you mean back then???? It's still like this in parts of Oz. Every know and then I too resemble these remarks apart from the road kill bit (but I have thought about it) Gotta go and clean me finger nails now Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Yep 4 paws borrows some of their best trainers from ADT HR, please reconsider your statement, 4Paws doesn't borrow" trainers from any establishment, rather their trainers choose to be there as the methods used by 4paws are different to those of ADT and this adds to their knowledge base of variant training techniques. Trainers are sourced through the NDTF not ADT unless you're suggesting they are 2 of the same! 4paws use positive, motivational play based training techniques. This technique works with the dog's prey drive and involves no element of compulsion whatsoever - hands-free! They also specialise in working dogs with high drives and problem dogs. HR, please make sure to get your facts correct first and please be very careful of what you state in forums such as this! You wouldnt want to be portrayed as having sour grapes, nor make a reflection on ADT in general that may make it look like they are threatened by any other schools/clubs which are enjoyable, educational and informative for their trainers and customers alike In the dog training world, there are many trainers that also operate at various centres, again to enhance their knowledge and experience. We wouldnt want to become stereotypical or institutionalised would we! This sort of behaviour restricts your capabilities and introduces "blinkers" to the way professional dog trainers react in varying circumstances when handling dogs. As for Vern Ryan, I agree with K9Force in that I what I have heard has also been heresay and it isn't polite to comment on information you haven't seen or experienced yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Well! Didn't I get put in my place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) Like HR I take an enormous amount of pride in being a part of ADT. I believe his comment was based in this Kelpie-i and not intended to be in any way disparaging. nor make a reflection on ADT in general that may make it look like they are threatened by any other schools/clubs which are enjoyable, educational and informative for their trainers and customers alike Not the case at all. As you are probably aware, Erny and i have both recommended 4Paws to people here (and in life beyond DOL) and will continue to do so if we think it more suitable to them for whatever reason. Edited October 19, 2005 by haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Hey Haven, There should be pride in the club you work with , infact this is certainly beneficial for the club (otherwise you wouldnt work there) and in return 4paws have also recommended ADT on many occassions due to fact of the training course their trainers go through with NDTF, as well as experience (as a trainer) with ADT myself. In relation to HR's comment, it is more a dig at saying "borrowing" when infact the correct words should probably be "some of 4paws Trainers also work with ADT". Borrow also infers free or on contract, when in fact these trainers are paid and enjoy, like you with ADT, their time with 4paws and their clients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) Kelpie-i! Sorry for the misunderstanding. In no way did I wish to suggest that 4paws has acted inappropriately by poaching ADT staff. What I was eluding to was the fact that long term term ADT staff members do work for 4paws as required, which is a fact. With regard to the NDTF, they are a registered training body training dog trainers whilst ADT like 4paws (who are both paid up members of the NDTF and allow their students to achieve their practical requirments at their training centres) provide training services to their own individual members. Like Haven & Erny, ADT also regularly refer clients to 4paws when the options offered by ADT do not meet the clients needs. An example of this is that 4paws train on Saturday morning and ADT, (at this point in time ) do not have a training option in this area on a Saturday morning, (as yet ). I believe there is certainly room for both ADT and 4paws to exist cohesively within the dog training industry. As you would be well aware, the training principles adopted by ADT, revolve around showing the dog where it's advantage lies . This involves rewarding the dog with what the dog coverts, (desires) most. The philosophy is that the dog dictacts the reward not the handler. Praise, whether in the form of physical, verbal, food, tug of war, prey are all forms of reward that are promoted at ADT. Edited October 19, 2005 by Herr Rottweiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) What I was eluding to was the fact that long term term ADT staff members do work for 4paws as required, which is a fact. Both are excellent training establishments and both have the same goals in sight, to train dogs and educate their owners. Credit goes to those trainers who choose to work with various different schools and clubs as they are willing to broaden their horizons and make better trainers for it. Edited October 19, 2005 by Kelpie-i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) I recognise both Kelpie-i's and HR's points in their posts. If they permit me to be so bold as to tender an interpretation? I think both recognise the integrity, professionalism and capabilities of the trainers at both 4Paws and ADT, and that all four quadrants of training principals are recognised, understood and, where appropriate, applied. The skills trained by NDTF renders it both feasible and possible for the trainers within each to interchange, whether or not the principal methods of each school differ, simply because the trainers have a broad based open minded knowledge and expertise. Kelpie-i and HR. Feel free to flame me if I'm off mark and out-of-line. Edited October 24, 2005 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 It's all cool! NFR - no flaming required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 How interesting that this thread started off somewhere....and ended with the inner workings of ADT, NDTF and 4paws....??? Just riveting reading for an outsider.... Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 What a love fest! Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 How interesting that this thread started off somewhere....and ended with the inner workings of ADT, NDTF and 4paws....??? Just riveting reading for an outsider.... Mel. Behave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) Behave LOL....you guys need to move this to PM's...getting a bit personal.... I have a feeling if we put you all in the same room..no-one would be able to get a word in edgeways! Mel. Edited October 19, 2005 by StaffordsRule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 And miss all this fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Guys .... feel free to come on in and distract us! Perhaps talk about your training schools/clubs, the methods they use, how they deal with behaviour problems (both mild and severe). Please - I for one would be interested ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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