Dane With The Wobbles

[erin_01]

Hi. My Dane has a problem with his back legs. We've taken him to the vet who doesn't actually know what the cause is, but has told us that Marlboro can't feel his hind legs, as in he isn't aware of what they're doing (if that makes sense, he does actually have feeling in them). This is lead to him falling over when he jumps around and not being as nimble as he should be.

He's had x-rays done and they showed nothing, so it's not a slipped disc.

We're going to have further tests done to see what the problem is.

Has anyone had any experience with something like this before?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

He is a purebred animal with papers etc. Unfortunetly the papers are misplaced right now and we can't get in contact with the breeder.

[Miranda]

Hi erin_01,

Your boy could have Wobblers Syndrome, I suggest you do a Google search and read up about it. Great Danes are particularly prone to this condition.

[Ci]

A dog physio or chiro may be a good idea too.

Your vet should have aleast suggested Wobblers to you???

[erin_01]

Thanks for your help, I'm googling as we speak

I'm curious though, if this is a problem that is genetic, shouldn't the breeder have told us there was a chance he could develop it from one of his animals?

[erin_01]

Ci: I just got told that yes the vet mentioned wobblers which is why I've been sent to the net to see what I can find

[Ci]

Good because I would have been worried if the vet didn't mention it!!!!!

I would have suggested a second vet.

[Miranda]

No-one actually knows what causes it and although most veterinarians suspect a genetic predisposition, nutrition and growth rates can also play a part. Nutrition is of primary importance in the rearing of giant breeds and keeping puppies lean and slowing growth by feeding foods with a lower protein content are thought to help in reducing the incidence of the disease.

[TigerJack]

Erin_01

He's had x-rays done and they showed nothing, so it's not a slipped disc.

Sorry - but this is incorrect. (I am a radiographer, x-rays, CT, MRI etc is my job.)

A plain xray will show bony anatomy. The disk itself will not show so it may still be protruding. In order to show disks a specialised form of examination is required, none of which is simple on a dog as an anaesthetic may be required. One way to do it is a myelogram. This is when a needle is passed into the spinal canal and a radio-opaque dye is injected. Xrays are then taken of the spine + dye. A disk that protrudes will show as a dent in the column of dye. If the disk is lumbar (lower back) the myelogram should wrk well. A disk that is higher up the spine is harder to show as the dye has to travel further up the spine.

The best examination (in my human patients anyway) is an MRI. Fabulous detail, no spinal injection but you would need an anaesthetic. A friend of mine is currently going through similar issues to your dog and has already had the myelogram. The MRI may be needed and apparently in Sydney they are done at RPA. I don't know where you are located though.

All these exams are expensive but if it were my dog and knowing everything I do about all the imaging options - I'd pay the money for the MRI. Of course I'd be a real pest and sit in on the procedure and pester them to do it the way I like to do MRI's myself.

Having said all that, I know nothing about this Wobbler's syndrome and I can't advise if any sort of imaging would help.

Good luck and let us know how your Dane is going.

Jo

[caslero]

Sorry to hear about your Dane Dobermanns are also prone to this problem and I have some info and links on Wobblers - also known as Cervical Vertebral Instability (CVI) on the Dobe Club of NSW website.

The link is here (Wobblers info is about halfway down the page):

http://www.dobermannnsw.homestead.com/healthissues.html

Hope this is of some help.

[morgan]

If it is Wobblers, cortisone can help for a while. The spinal cord gets very inflamed from being rubbed by the affected bone in the vertebra or vertebrae, interfering with the nervous system so that it stops sending messages to the hindquarters.

Where there is not too much damage, cortisone can reduce this swelling, which allows these messages to get through again. The dog will have to be kept quiet permanently, but you can increase quality and length of life with this treatment.

And yes, x-rays are not sufficient for diagnosis.

[Rappie]

How old is your dog Erin?

Wobbler's would be a possibility, however there's other reasons as well.

but has told us that Marlboro can't feel his hind legs, as in he isn't aware of what they're doing (if that makes sense, he does actually have feeling in them)

My understanding of what you have said is that he has deep pain perception, but his proprioception (awareness of his body's position in space) isn't what it should be? If this has been a slowly progressive condition and he is an adult dog, there are a number of things it *could* be. Unfortunately, diagnosing conditions like this is often done as a "diagnosis of exclusion".

Diseases that could cause a vague, but localised condition like this include spinal tumours, partial disc prolapse (as part of changes associated with aging), hip dysplasia, cruciate ligament disease, discospondylitis or a degenerative myelopathy.

With regards to imaging - radiography can give a lot of information, but not all of it specific. In some dogs, a disc prolapse can be suggested by a narrowed or collapsed intervertebral disc space or the presence of bony changes on the lower surface of the vertebrae. Myelography when available is used to visualise the spinal canal and identify disc material or tumours. More advanced imagining like CT and MRI is used much less often in veterinary medicine than human, they are very useful but not often called upon (the uni does one every few weeks at RPA). Despite all the information they can give you, they are expensive and not everyone is able to go down that road.

[t-time]

Boxers are prone to Wobblers as well.....

If it is Wobblers, your boy will not be in any pain which is one good thing I suppose ;) Have a look at the web pages mentioned and I'm sure they will give you some great ideas.

[raz]

Maybe PM Doberdave. His Dobe girl has Wobblers.

[Karen]

I know what you are going through as I had a Alaskan Malamute pup that had WS its sad to watch from a fun loving baby of 12 weeks to a 6 month old pup that couldn't get up in the end was PTS He was the only one affected with this out of a litter of 10.

I had spoken to the vet at great lenghts about this and they said that 50% of vet would say its gentic and the other 50% wouldn't blame gentics.

I had Malamutes for 4years when this happen and could trace back any dog in my lines on their health checks and I had never heard of it affecting Mals,

Its easy to say why didn't the breeder say something but if it had never occured in his/her lines before,

Sometimes you just cant help when nature takes a hand in things.

There is a Op that can be done has your vet mention that

[TangerineDream]

Had a Dobe with Wobblers (induced when he ran head first into a tree he wasn't watching) and damaged the area around C6 and C7. Put him in a harness - no collar after that. He also had little or no awareness of his hind legs and had to turn around to look at them to see where they were. The only pain he was in was the muscles along his neck either side of the spine and I used to massage Goanna Oil blue into them which would give him relief for nearly a week at a time. I also had him manipulated every 6 weeks or so which used to relieve some of the pressure on the spinal column and he had fairly good days for a week or so after that. He progressively got worse over a 12 month period and was PTS when he told me he'd had enough and I felt that his quality of life was being compromised.

[kimjm]

We have treated quite a few Danes and Dobs with wobblers some before and some after surgery (if it was warrented) I would either go back to your vet and get him to refer you to a specialist or go somewhere else for a second opinion. Usually a MRI is the best diagnostic tool in cases like these rather than x/rays. If you are in melbourne you can PM me and i will let you know where this can be done.