Advocate Has Failed

[Sonny]

Hi

Well some of you know my little boy has a dose of mange.

We have been using Advocate for some time in mixed doses.

He had to go to the vets today for sore feet and the vet took one look at him and said the advocate wasn't working. Apparently the sore feet were because of the mites.

Well, he has been looking a lot better, I guess we had just been comparing him to how he had looked when he was really bad.

So now we are on daily oral doses of Ivermec at 400mg (I think that is right). The vet calculated it at his weight (26.3kg)

So we are now hoping to see some improvement over the next few week and then go back to the vets in a months time for a checkup

Very disappointed in Advocate.

Fingers crossed the Ivermec works.

Edited September 22, 2005 by Sonny

[Little Joe]

did the vet scrape the feet to check for mites?

[Sonny]

No, because it was in between his pads - a yeast infect caused by the mites.

His mange is viable on his face and an area on his back.

I was getting better but very very slowly so we still had problems with secondary infections

[peibe]

I thought that Ivomec injections over 6 weeks was better than orally but?????

[pastoraleman]

The good thing about Ivomec is that it will cover your boy for fleas, ticks & heartworm as well.

[Caz no 2]

A few years ago one of our dogs got mange from sitting at the opening of the resident wombats hole, needless to say all the dogs had mange. The vet advised weekly ivermec injections for 4 weeks, cost about $10 per injection. All our dogs were between 25 -30 kgs.

[Sonny]

Yeah, not sure why we got an oral dose - I assumed that it helps maintain the level without applying a massive once off dose, not sure?????

50ml of Ivermec = $115 and we give 1ml each day (this actually looks quite a lot in a syringe)

No fleas in Karratha plenty of mange

[peibe]

I am no expert but I was under the impression that it was the massive dose once a week that stopped the mange.

I would be asking more questions if I was you. Zephyr was treated by our vet for mites last year and he had 6 injections over 6 weeks at a cost of $11.50 per injection. + $69.50

You are paying alot more than that.

[Sonny]

Going to check with the vets at 3:10pm when they are back and ask.

Everything in Karratha is expensive!!!!!

[Winterpaws]

Are you bathing him twice a week?

Poor baby - I do hope he gets better soon

[Sonny]

No - once a month

[Winterpaws]

Have you seen the thread on Henry the Dogue de Bordeaux in the rescue forum? If you search dogue de bordeaux you will find it

Henry had an awful case of mange and our vet did some extensive research for us on how best to treat him. The thread goes through what we are doing but I am suprised that your vet has not reccomended twice werkly bathing and rinses

Get yourrself some Pyohex shampoo and wash with that twice a week, It needs to sit on the skin for 10 minutes when yu lather it up. Follow that with an ectodex rinse sponged and rubbed into the skin. You get Ectodex from the vet and I think you can buy a similar one dectodex (?) from pet supply stores

Once his hair starts coming back Aloveen conditioner is really soothing rubbed into the skin and coat after the rinse has dried

You have to keep them warm when you wash them and in a draught free area. The rinse has to dry naturally and kills the mites

Hope that helps a bit - worth trying??

[Pup's mum]

I wasn't under the impression Advocate was supposed to have an impact on mange - only fleas/heart worm - who told you to use Advocate if I can ask?

Edited September 22, 2005 by Pup's mum

[Winterpaws]

Hi Pups Mum

Advocate is now registered (? not sure if that is correct term) for the treatment of mites

Mange is one of the few health issues I know anyything about (sadly)

Cin

[Pup's mum]

See - learn something new everyday - I didn't know that!! Thanks Winterpaws.

[Sonny]

Ok

The vet said that they prefer to use the oral method because they can control the dose better. They talked about the half life of Ivomec and said I had to ensure I treated him the same time each day (this is very easy for me cos I get up the same time each day). He said a daily dose can be anywhere between 100mg and 1000mg and we are on 400mg.

I go back to them on the 12th Oct for a check up.

He told me to keep up the Advocate as my boy needs all the help he can get.

With washing - his hair has started to grow back and in some areas it is looking really good (I think so and compared to how it used to be, sometime I think I have rose coloured glasses when I look at him). I wash him with Aloveen now and it seems to sooth his skin a lot. The vet said he didn't want to give us a wash as we would have to use it all over him and it may be too much for him.

He used to be bald on his head, face, neck, inner front legs, areas on his back legs and around where his tail meets his bum and with some spots on his back (that sounds really bad now I've written it )

He looks a totally different dog to that of before but you can still see little bits on his face and rear legs. In most spots the hair has grown back but it is thinner.

He was getting over the problem with the Advocate but it was so slow I think it was only working a little and needs some help, so I hope this will get all the mites now.

I'll post something in a week or so to let you know how he is going.

[kelpiecuddles]

Some info on advocate for you. The company plugs it as being great for mange however my vet has said that the animal dermatoligist she works with says it is not worth the box it's wrapped in. Best treatment for mange is a complete soaking in frontline spray once a week until it's gone (should only take a couple of weeks). Ivermec also works well and my vet uses it in the oral form.

[Scales of Justice]

If you read up about Sarcoptes mites (which I presume is what your dog has) most literature says that you need to dose ivermectin at least fortnightly and it takes about two to three doses before you will see any change. As far as I know mites take a long time to eradicate so the Advocate may actually be working but you need to treat fortnightly and wait for about 6 weeks to see the results.

[Muttaburra]

I read somewhere that Revolution was a treatment for Sarcoptic mange mites, has anyone tried it?.

[Rappie]

Revolution is the easiest treatment for sarcoptes mange - 3 doses a fortnight apart is usually enough to clear up a case.

Unfortunately, demodectic mange isn't quite so easy to treat, and there is no single best way approach the treatment. Weekly injections are popular because they are easy to administer and less frequent than oral medication with ivermectin. There is some suggestion (though not proven) that the time to clinical resolution may be longer using weekly injection of ivermectin. If you were going to use a weekly injection of something, it would be worth discussing doramectin (Dectomax) injection with your vet. There are other option with oral treatments, however they are only really financially viable in small dogs.

I think a lot more hope has been placed on Advocate than it deserves, it is registered for the treatment of demodex but that doesn't guarantee success unfortunately. It's something worth trying but it may not be the answer for all dogs. Regardless of the treatment chosen, its very often neccessary to use adjunct treatments like antibiotics to treat secondary infections that will not clear themselves in an immune compromised animal and antibacterial shampoos like Pyohex.

Sonny, I suspect that the wash your vet said you could use but would prefer not to is a medicated shampoo called Demadex which contains a potent chemical called amitraz. I wouldn't ever use it by choice either, unfortunately, apart from Advocate it is the only other registered treatment. Fortunately the treatment protocol with ivermectin and its derivatives are well published and are accepted options.

As an aside to something I think another poster mentioned earlier - the doses of ivermectin used for treating mange are lower than those used for heartworm (which is why it can be used in collie breeds under careful supervision).