Chris_n_Riley Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Hello there! First off, let me say how wonderful it is to find a forum like this full of dedicated pet owners and breeders. It's also comforting to see that I'm not the only one having problems with my dog! Every time I go for a walk and see well behaved dogs in other people's yards, I always think 'did I get a broken one?' haha. So it's really good to be here. I'm a 19 year old guy from Sydney and I live with my parents. This year we bought our first dog (our first pet, in fact, for many many years) and he's a beautiful yellow labrador male called Riley. He does all the regular labrador behaviour that we all know and love - digging holes, pulling washing off the line! etc - but he's also a big biter. Since the day we brought him home, he's been very nippy and always bites no matter what you're doing with him. At first we thought it was just 'puppy biting' but our behaviourist has suggested it might be an aggression complex. She has given the number of a dog psychiatrist who charges $450 for the first consultation and whilst we're very grateful for her advice, we're just not in the sort of position where we can spend that much money. The biting is usually accompanied by jumping which he does a lot as well. For months he would do it to all three of us (and still does) but it seems I'm bearing the worst of it at the moment. For the past couple of months, every time I'm with him he'll jump up and bite whatever he can get to. Hands, butt, legs, knees, stomach. I'm starting to become very stressed about it because he bites hard and I can't go outside without him doing it. My father and I can do the exact same things with him, and he'll bite both of us, but as soon as Dad rouses on him he stops. I can't seem to do anything to stop him. I've tried everything that I've read or been advised - saying 'NO' sternly, asking Riley calmly to 'leave it', ignoring the behaviour. Unfortunately he's just relentless. I was just wonderful if anyone had any other advice? He's a lovely dog and we heart him to pieces, but I'm getting really frustrated and upset by this behaviour which seems to be targeting me at the moment. Is this normal 9-month-old labrador behaviour or is it something else? x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) Hi Chris, welcome to DOL I am no expert, but i would take a wild guess at pack structure problems? Edited September 17, 2005 by Axel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Chris, Correct me if I am wrong please, but it sounds like Riley is an outside dog? Does he receive a walk everyday and it might be a good idea, if you have not already done so, to find a good obedience trainer. With having more information Riley problem may be one of no manners and plain young dog excitement and no manners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embellish Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Try looking at the website www.dogtrainers.com.au they provide an excellent service as you drop your dog off there for a week and they will train him to sit, drop, stay, heel on lead, not to jump etc. They are located at two sites, box hill and catherine fields. My lab went there for a week and they were great. Good facilities and staff, my dog really enjoyed it! The training if lifetime guaranteed, with a one off cost of around $500 (can't actually remember the exact cost) but this is a one off payment and visit, money well worth invested for your lab boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_n_Riley Posted September 17, 2005 Author Share Posted September 17, 2005 Thanks for the replies, guys. I actually bought Riley from Box Hill and they were very nice, but ran their training from the age of 6 months on. Riley was a bit of a terror from day one and I imagine I would have killed myself by now had we not started our own training! He can sit and stay and do other basic things, it's just this biting which is a nuisance. Would you still recommend the Box Hill training, labs26? I've heard some unpleasant things about their training methods. Lablover - Riley is indeed an outdoors dog! He's too destructive to be inside. My parents both work and I am busy with work and uni, but Riley gets a walk almost every day. We do have an obedience trainer / behaviourist, but she readily admits she doesn't have any other solutions other than what we've tried. She did recommend a Bach flower remedy which some people believe helps dogs immeasurably. I'm not sure it's aggression because he is a very friendly and excitable little boy. I think a lot of it is attention-based and Riley expressing his desire to play. Unfortunately it's just happening all the time and I know labrador puppy periods last 18 months - 2 years, but I wonder whether this is a) a bigger problem and/or b) can be treated before he reaches that age. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Chris - I am sure you will find a behaviourist/specialist trainer for cheaper than that!! Sounds like there are a few issues there - but I will leave all the advice up to the experts on here. I also had a fairly "overactive" labrador (although I have never had authority problems with him due to our extensive obedience training). I did find that he calmed down somewhat on a natural diet. If you want to research BARF diet on here you can use the search facility. There is a belief that the preservatives etc in mass produced pet food can contribute to some dog's hyperactivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 I dare say as hes outside his desire for company becomes all too much outside which is his territory,it sounds like when you enter the backyard dog is pack leader & humans fear him .Some dogs will do anything for extra company & when roused he may find that time whilst getting in trouble still gives him company. Firstly is he spayed??? What do you feed?? Pulling the clothes of the line isnt normal but a sign of boredom or attention seeking??? How old is he ???? Persoanlly i would buy a crate & crate train him so he can start to be inside calmly,it shouldnt be used for bad behaviour but a tool at present where he can be inside,see the family hear the noises etc. Next thing is to establish pack leadership. i would also buy some gardening gloves & put chilli or something hot all over & when dog goes to mouth let him grab glove & firmly say "sit",at present the dog nows all of you fear his behaviour & the dog nows you have no control at that point. Some dogs are hyper active & what you need to do is fined more stimulating/challenging games for this dog,something where his intelligience can be challenged but at the same time you gain control & respect of him. I would also ask you instructor about "clicker" training & research it on the net,very simple & works so well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Chris - does sound like heirarchy issues which, provided you get onto this quickly, can often be sorted out fairly swiftly. You say you're in the Box Hill area? I'd recommend you enquire about joining "Australian Dog Training". Depending on the obedience level you chose, the cost would be comparative to your "one visit behaviourist", except the fee to Australian Dog Training would cover membership and training for the whole of the dog's life and would include a broad socialisation program. In addition to that, however, there are behaviourists on the grounds at training/class times on most weekends and you can ask for and receive advice and guidance from them at no additional charge. Alternatively, if you don't wish to join them (although I think you'd get alot out of it if you did), they can arrange a private lesson/s/behaviourist consult at a considerably lesser price than what you've been quoted. Australian Dog Training have centres running as follows: Berwick - Saturday mornings Springvale - Sunday mornings Scoresby - Sunday mornings Heidelberg - Sunday mornings Boronia - Sunday afternoons Ascotvale - Tuesday nights (except during Melbourne Show period) Doncaster - Thursday nights You need to book in to go to one of their "First Timer's" programs. It's obligation free and there's no pushy sales type speak .... The program serves to merely explain what they're about (ie the programs available), how they train, why they train the way they do and the services available to you. After that, you'll meet with an assessor on a "one-on-one" basis to discuss the issues you're having (this helps determine the programs most suited to you and your dog) and then they go through the fees (which are dependent upon what program/s you chose). The only thing you have to lose by attending one of these programs is a couple of hours of your time. You bring your dog with you, along with vaccination papers and, if you want to, payment facilities (c.card etc) IN CASE you want to join up and get started. If you want more info you can call them on 9761 2772. The office is manned Monday - Fridays and I'm pretty sure Saturdays too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 In my humble opinion, I think sending your dog away to be trained is a BAD idea. Contact any of the excellent dogtrainers on DOL (I highly recommend K9Force) and for far less than Box Hill would charge, you will have not only a better-trained dog but also a dog that respects and is bonded to you. PLUS you will be given the knowledge as to how to continue training Riley in the future. You sound like a really committed dog owner and Riley can become the dog you want and will be happy to own so long as you get good, professional training ASAP. Feel free to PM me if you would like further information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 This dig has now become the boss of you and your parents. Instead of fixing it he's now stuck in the backyard alone and is ignored for his pleas for attention. Dont get caught in the cycle of 'oh its puppy/lab behaviour he'll grow out of it' ... uh uh... Your dog is not too destructive. He's just very disobedient. Since you're in Sydney try K9 force. Because they deal in protection animals they'd probably be better at spotting genuine aggression in your dog. If this is out of the league of your behaviourist ... get rid of her! Psychiatrist pffft. For destructiveness: make him a sandpit, get him some food based toys (like Kongs/Buster Ball) and dont feed him breakfast, just give him the toy. They love food so he'll stay busy. Also, start buying him big meaty bones to keep him occupied. This dog should know basic commands such as heel, sit, drop, stay, leave it by now so invest time in obedience more then walks every evening. Finish with a good play session of fetch. Aggression? Yup you bet. He's at the age where hormones are going to make him challenge authority and you guys are letting him walk all over you. Unfortunately what you see now is what happens when you dont nip things at the bud early. Now you're going to cop it more becuase he sees you as lower in the family pecking order then your dad! Read THIS as a basic. It can sound harsh but it is for overly aggressive dogs as well so glean from it what you need. If you need any more help just post your q's or PM me J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusgem Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 HI Chris and Welcome! I have two labs, a boy whois 5 and agirl who has just turned one, so I know how much of a handful young labs can be. Firstly you really need to spend a lot more time with him than you are, from what it sounds anyway. I would highly suggest a crate, he will be so happy that he is allowed to come inside with his pack that Hopefully he will be content to be in his crate. IS he desexed? I highly recommend him getting done now if he isn't already. I also think that you need to take him to a local dog club and socialise him with other dogs and learn how to control him. I don't like the idea of sending them away cos then once they get home, YOU have no idea how to keep up their training, and even more so cos you haven't had a dog for a while. Labs are the sort of dogs that need people....they thrive on it. From the sounds of things I don't think he is aggressive, but he certainly is above you in the pack order. What I would do in the meanwhile, while you organise joining a club is, if he knows how to sit, as soon as you go outside get him to sit, don't give him the opporunity to jump on you...maybe even put his lead on so you can control him better. Anyway, get him to sit and praise him...lots of treats. Then I would get him to drop (if he can) and give him more treats, and if he is still in the drop position, slowly stroke him and pat him and tell him what a lovely boy he is. In a calming relaxed manner. If starts to jump up and bite you get him to (you might have to even growl at him, this works well for me when my puppy is being dominant, and trust me she tries her little heart out to be dominant!!!!) sit again and praise. YOu really have to do a lot of training with him. It sounds as though he is really bored as well. He's only a baby, he wants to have fun, and if you aren't going to provide it, then he will, by pulling clothes of the line and other destructive behaviour. My dogs have never pulled clothes off the line and there is no way that I would tolerate that behaviour. Provide him with his own sandpit that he can dig in, put his food in a buster cube or kong and please take him for walks....... Whereabouts are you in sydney? Sorry for raving on, but I hate hearing about how labradors have become destructive because their owners haven't met their needs as puppies. Let us know how he gets on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 You say you're in the Box Hill area? I'd recommend you enquire about joining "Australian Dog Training". Sorry .... didn't realise you were in Sydney. Was thinking Victoria. My mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 IMO I would NOT recommend dogtrainers.com.au It sounds to me like attention seeking/possibly high prey drive behaviour (grabbing and tugging anything the pup can find). Redirecting the behaviour to a more appropriate item might help (toy, rag, tug or bone). NILIF would be a good idea too. Obedience training is the way to go Something to keep the body and mind busy! Even something seemingly trivial like trick training will help keep the dog out of mischief as well as helping leadership. I would either be joing an obedience club or finding a private trainer. Sending the dog away can sometimes help but remember YOU still have to be trained and keep up the work, it is not a magic solution! K9 Force is a good one to ask on behaviour issues - you may find a new way to motivate your dog too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embellish Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I was reccommending dogtrainers.com.au due to my own experience, especially since a lab I have was purchased/bred from them also. They do not let you go home with your dog until they teach YOU how to handle your dog, and make sure you can handle the dog properly. But, as I said, this is my opinion and it was a satisfactory result for my dominant bitch. May I also suggest that you castrate him and join your local dog obedience club, for socialisation, support and to further your/his training. Anyhow, we are all just trying to help Good luck with him, your efforts will only reward you threefold with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 I am not recommending dogtrainers.com.au due to my experiences with them - with a Beagle my parents had and had issues with. By the way he acted both with the trainer and at home afterwards they did not appear to have used positive methods My preference for a boarding/training establishment is Hanrob if you feel that option is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_n_Riley Posted September 17, 2005 Author Share Posted September 17, 2005 Hi guys, cheers for the responses! I really appreciate it. There's so much info there to digest, so I'll just ramble a little... Riley does have a trainer, she's a behavourist with an excellent reputation locally and she's been with us for six months now. She's been really helpful but readily admits that as she doesn't live with us 24/7 she can't fully assist with some of the things we describe as happening. He is a well behaved dog other than these spurts of biting which can be frustrating. He is desexed and we go on regular walks, at least four or five out of the seven week days. Ideally I'd like to take him every day, but I work two jobs and attend university so my time is limited. Every night we spend two hours with him as a family so he gets quality time with us each and every day. This time is usually spent doing treat-rewarded training, with a sit/stay program, a handful of tricks, and general obedience to keep him mentally stimulated. As for a crate, we do have one. He sleeps in it every night and it gets moved around the house on rainy days when he can't be outside. Riley hasn't progressed to being an inside dog yet because he's too destructive when he comes inside. Even if given a Kong, he's more content with running around the living room chewing and jumping on things! I live on the upper North Shore, btw. Nehkbet said: Aggression? Yup you bet. He's at the age where hormones are going to make him challenge authority and you guys are letting him walk all over you. Unfortunately what you see now is what happens when you dont nip things at the bud early We have been trying to address this issue since the third week we had Riley home. Perhaps as first-time dog owners we did not go down the right avenues? We contacted the breeders asking their advice, and they offered us a consultation at their facilities for $75. The most we got out of that was their dog trainer namedropping celebrities, telling us it was normal puppy behaviour to bite and then giving us a spray bottle for an additional $20 that was supposed to make your hands taste nasty. We used that for two weeks but it had absolutely no effect. After that we found our dog behaviourist who was incredibly generous with her time and knowledge. Unfortunately, it was hard to consolidate the right way to treat the problem when our behaviourist was suggesting ignoring it and/or trying to make him mentally tired, the breeders/trainers told us to say 'NO' firmly and it would stop, and others told us to smack the dog (clearly this was out of the question). As such we have tried anything and everything for a good six months. So please don't think that we have been lazy dog owners, because all three of us have been trying to do what's best for Riley and ourselves with regards to this issue. Thanks for the support guys, it's really appreciated! x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embellish Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Yes Kavik, Hanrob seems to be an excellent facility. I am sorry that you did not have any positive results with your parents beagle. I suppose this is a problem you get when an establishment that has many trainers, the trainer I had experiences with was fantastic, a very gentle and experienced dog trainer. Sadly, he is no longer with them - where have you gone Stuart??? If only we could duplicate these good trainers, there are great trainers and some very ordinary ones. There should be a training scheme with dog trainers as there is with other trainers in this country. Just like the NCAS (National Coaches Accreditation Scheme) - as this is what they are - coaches. Within this scheme (well in the equestrian field) there are levels that the coaches achieve as to their ability AND experience. So basically the levels are graded from level one through to level three. Level three being the highest. So, it really sorts the "so called experts" from the real experts. Anyhow, just an idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herding_guy Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Here's my tip... Take you and your parents to a breeder who has a bitch with a good size litter of 6 weeks old. Someone on this list may help. Watch what the bitch does to discipline the pups everytime a pup bites or annoys her. The bitch ussually growls and snaps at the pup quickly. The jaw snap happens very close to the puppies face, head rarely connecting at all. It's quick, sharp and effective. The pup ussually goes screaming to the farthest corner, whimpering for a while then will return to the mother in a submissive posture moments later. The mother will then accept the pup back by licking. Dogs are our best teachers. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusgem Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Good idea herding guy, that is what I was going to suggest too. If Maple goes overboard with her playing with Gus or just trying to be very naughty/dominant with me, i (and I know not everyone will agree with me) grab her scruff around her neck and growl at her, I don't hurt her. Then when she has settled I always praise her. This has seemed to work really well as I only need to growl at her or a strong NO and she stops whatever she is doing....and then she tries to suck up to me! But follow Dave's idea and go and look at a litter of pups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusgem Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Oh and join a local obedience club like Northern Suburbs. They are in St IVes and are on Saturday afternoons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now