Practice What You Preach?

[Vickie]

Just wondering how often & in what circumstances people would teach something in a class situation differently to what they would do with their own dogs?

A couple of situations that come to mind are:

teaching a certain method b/c the club that you instruct at uses & requires that method.

teaching a method that is more generic & suitable to a wider range of dogs & owners, rather than one perfect for your particular type of dog & level of experience as a handler.

How do you feel about teaching differently to the way you train?

Do you think your students notice that you train differently? Do you worry about this?

Do you ever have dogs in class that you'd like to take aside & show them "your" way?

ETA (given Tilly's interesting reply):

As a student, when you know this is happening, how do you feel about it?

Have you ever approached an instructor to tell them you're serious & want to train competitively rather than for fun?

Edited September 12, 2005 by Vickie

[Dogsfevr]

All students woory about is learning,either the lack off or thrilled with so much learning.

Whilst some clubs do prefer some methods when push comes to shuve you are training the handler & the dog with what works best

[Mel774]

I use all the methods that I train with my own dog, however I do a lot more with my dog than what I would necessarily train in class. Only because I teach beginners so I have to be careful not to confuse them.. which is easier said that done!!

[Tilly]

I have attended a obedience class were they encourage the dogs attending the class to be passed around to other handlers. They also have the other handlers feeding treats to your dog - but this is not something they practice themselves.

Their dogs are not allowed to be touched or have any form of affection shown to them by anyone else. I made the mistake of patting one of the trainers dogs only to have the dog called back and crated for 30 minutes - I was told in no uncertain terms not to touch the dog again and to ignore it if it approached again.

They teach the class one way but train their own dogs using another method - I normally don't allow or encourage people to handle or feed my dog so I found it to be very uncomfortable.

Edited September 12, 2005 by Tilly

[sidoney]

I find a lot of people aren't interested in training the way I train. They don't have the same goals. They don't want to put the same work into it.

Don't have much fun doing that. I like training people who want to learn.

[Vickie]

I find a lot of people aren't interested in training the way I train. They don't have the same goals. They don't want to put the same work into it.

Don't have much fun doing that. I like training people who want to learn.

Honestly...I think much of the time, they just lack the experience to realise how important some foundations are. They see them as boring, or "it'll be fine, we'll work it out later". That's what I find hard in a big club...many of the people just want to have fun, and never envisage competing. It's hard to find a training method that suits those people as well as the ones striving for excellence.

I am a firm believer that the better you & your dog perform, the more fun you will both have. Hard to teach this way & give people the quick fix they're looking for.

[sidoney]

Can happen in a small club too. Depends what the people are there for. And what the club focus is.

I don't think you CAN have the quick fix and get it right. Those people may teach the right way on their next dog.

I think it would be good to have a group of people who set the right kind of role model. Trainers whose own dogs show the effects of good training. Then people might want to put in the right foundations.

Edited September 12, 2005 by sidoney

[Guest Tess32]

I've yet to come across a club yet that doesn't run most of their non advanced classes for the most "basic, I just want my dog to sit" person.

I find it quite frustrating and have left clubs because of it. I have hated being told it's not important how my dog sits or whether it's straight. It's important to me!

Nat

[K9-Nutter]

Answer to your questions - Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes Yes. I think thats the lot. I find that most people look at the advanced dogs at training, think they are great and 'that is how I want my dog to be', but have no understanding of what is involved to get them there. Unfortunately a lot of people are after a quick fix but few are prepared to put in the hard work and time involved. Like a lot of things, no one wants to start at the bottom and work up, they want to be at the top straight away and consider working slowly and consistently & striving for improved performance is too slow and boring.

But I still love doing it, if only for those handlers who are prepared to listen and learn and hence you can see their dogs improving little by little every week. Thats what I do it for........

[kelpiecuddles]

Sascha is 15 weeks old and last week she went to her first session of formal obedience - I have been very happy. She was placed in the advanced class despite her young age and the instructor was quite happy to recognise the differences in the way I had trained her. But then we train every day for at least 30 minutes and I know many people don't do that. She performed batter than many of the dogs that had been training for over a year. Admittedly she is very trainable but I think it has a lot to do with the method and quantity of training. Most of the other 'trainees' were surprised at how well trained she was and couldn't believe it but I think they just didn't get it(the amount of work we put in).

[kelpiecuddles]

Also should add Tess32 that last week Sascha refused to drop(she didn't like the wet grass) and when I spoke to the instructor about it the first thing he asked me was,"What do you want out of her? Do you want her to do what she's told when she's told or just have the important basics?" I explained that I wanted her to move on to agility, trials, etc. and therefore this behaviour was an issue, to that he replied that in that case we will work on it and make sure she understands. I really got confidence in him after that, it shows that he sees the differences in expectations that some people have of their dogs.

[Kavik]

I have instructed at two clubs and both in some ways trained differently to me. One club had uniform instruction across instructors and one had a variety of methods depending on the instructor's preference.

One club had a lot of security guards and their dogs, and so the method of instruction there was different to the other club which was run for pets and competition obedience (although even in that club there was a difference between pet and competition people in the way they instructed and trained).

I understand why they have different methods of instruction and training due to their aims and respected that, although the variety within the one club that did pet and competition would be confusing to beginner handlers as they would at times be given conflicting advice.

Where I am at the moment as a member (not instructor) is a compeition obedience club, with training methods and aims specific to that exercise, but with flexibility to allow members different approaches (I am the only one spitting food LOL :D )

[Guest Tess32]

I like the club I'm at now, but took a long time to find one I was happy with. Still some compromises, but no place is perfect.

There is one school I emailed to ask if they allow clicker training and I got quite an abrupt reply, so glad I didn't go there.

I wish there were theory classes in some clubs :D

Nat

[kelpiecuddles]

If you ever find one that does theory let me know, I think my OH needs one! His idea of telling our dogs to sit is (in a high pitched silly voice) sit, sit down, oi you sit down, etc, etc. to which they of course jump around his feet. :D Honestly some men have no idea

[pgm]

I am a firm believer that the better you & your dog perform, the more fun you will both have. Hard to teach this way & give people the quick fix they're looking for.

Why? A good method will produce visible results immediately. The quicker those results are seen the more likely people will be encouraged to train more and put in the extra work.

Just ask a professional trainer such as K9 Force, a dog can be taught to walk on a loose lead within five to ten minutes with a good method. Seeing those kind of results encourages people to put in the work to make good behavior a habit. Getting good results quickly make the whole experience rewarding and a whole lot more fun than getting little result.

Of course, you have to put in the work, but seeing significant improvement quickly is a great motivator towards encouraging the extra effort.

Edited September 12, 2005 by pgm

[Staranais]

There is one school I emailed to ask if they allow clicker training and I got quite an abrupt reply, so glad I didn't go there.

Lol, I have the opposite problem, both of the local schools here are very (VERY) positive, some of the instructors even refer to themselves are PURELY postitive.

I like motivational training too, but I also see nothing wrong with using aversives to proof and correct a dog, as long as the dog fully understands what he's meant to be doing and the corrections are appropriate to a dog's temperament. If my dog's being a little bugger I will tell him so in no uncertain terms - which has got me some dirty looks at the club we attend.

I could never teach at that club, I'd feel like I was lying to people. :D

Edited September 12, 2005 by Amhailte

[yogibear]

I dont instruct at clibs for that reason Amphailite i always feel like im not being honest with people because i dont train that way myself.

Nat which club did you end up finding was the better one im still scratching my head and wondering what to do. I just want soemwhere where i can use trial equipment get a rinthrough etc and thast hard to find

yb

[Shakti]

Re the fast results - YES! I had been taking my old GSD to training clubs for over two years and they *the instructors* were very happy with his progress. I was not. We had been doing the same thing with the same result - he continued pulling on lead and had no recall off-lead- for over one year of classes and I was getting totally disheartened with both the club and my dog

Then I took him to K9 Force and within less than ten minutes my very large and strong GSD was walking at heel on a loose leash FOR ME and was demonstrating a great recall even with the high distraction of having sticks thrown nearby (he was stick-mad!)

The fast results showed me that my dog was highly intelligent and very trainable; that the methods I had been using were simply ineffective and were never going to work for my dog no matter how long I continued applying them and; most importantly that I could enjoy being with my dog again rather than having to brace myself to even take him for a walk. K9 Force and the fast results he got saved my relationship with my dog and the best part was those results stayed permanently long after we returned home!

[MonElite]

In general yes. I practice what I preach.

The only thing that I preach and dont do myslef is the amoun of time I train.

I tell people to train every day, I dont do that myslef

[Guest Tess32]

BTW when I said theory I just meant a non practical work class, so a time where you can just discuss in a group questions about dog behaviour or your own dog and so on. I bet there are a lot of people who'd train better if they could ask questions without feeling they are interrupting a class.

Yogibear, I'll PM you.

Am - It's the same problem in a way. It's hard to find a club that doesn't have extremist views of both sides. You get a "pet dog" club who have no standard of excellence, or a "trial based" club that doesn't cater for pet dogs as well. What happens to the people in the middle!

Nat