wagsalot Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 My kelpie x Riley is the perfect dog while we are at home - he obeys every command. BUT when we're out he seems to just forget everything. Its not so bad if its just on a walk, it seems to be when there are other dogs around and lots of people. He gets distracted and then doesnt listen to anything i say. At the offleash park he is ok - he seems to be alot better off lead, then on lead. Just wondering how i can keep his attention on me. I am going to Hanrob on Saturday in Steve Austins classes to help, but I just wanted a bit of a head start before we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 He's not forgetting, he's just probably been trained by you that the context (ie where you are) is part of the training. He also hasn't been trained under distractions. When you increase the difficulty (and an offleash park is a LOT of distractions) you have to lower your criteria/what you want. You have to train *for* distractions and increase them gradually. Basically you need to do all the easy stuff he knows in new places, gradually increasing the difficulty. So down the street, and then at an empty park, then a park with kids and so on and so on. Also when you're out, reinforce ANY focus/attention he gives to you all the time. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malinwar Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 spot on tess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippi Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 (edited) Yep, don't need to add anything to what Tess has explained, except that it should all be explained to you at Steve's classes... Edited September 8, 2005 by Pippi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Yes I agree, you have trained the dog but not proofed the training under distraction. I'd love to hear about your class with Steve Austin after you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buster's Mum Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Hi Wagsalot, what time class are you going to? I'm going again on Saturday, last week was our first class and it was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagsalot Posted September 8, 2005 Author Share Posted September 8, 2005 I am hopefully going to go to the 1.45 class. Well thats the plan, if i dont make that one it will have to be the 2.30. Ive got my fingers crossed that Riley behaves!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 (edited) Ive got my fingers crossed that Riley behaves!! IMO, a handler learns more about dog training when their dog misbehaves, albeit that the learning might be a bit more difficult/awkward. Let us know how you go at Steve's lesson. Edited September 8, 2005 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagsalot Posted September 8, 2005 Author Share Posted September 8, 2005 (edited) Will do! Ive been told to take treats with me so hopefully i can bribe him with those! Im not sure if its all on lead stuff, but riley seems to be better off lead. I suppose at least if he plays up it will give me the opportunity to learn how to correct it! Edited September 8, 2005 by wagsalot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagsalot Posted September 10, 2005 Author Share Posted September 10, 2005 (edited) Well I took Riley to obedience today and it was a nightmare! He just wanted to play with the other dogs!! (the lady said its bad becasue he goes to off leash parks and gets to do what he wants there, then at training he wants to do the same thing!) anyway he was a abosolute terror at first - was too interested in the other dogs, but once we got to get our own bit of grass he wasnt too bad. He knew his sit, stays and drops but it was the walking we had most problem with. I walk him on a harness, and we walked to obedience (25 min walk) and he walked perfect on the way - well he was walking in front of me a little, but there was no pulling. In obedience i had to take of the harness and just use the collar, and he just wanted to pull and pull and pull!! So we're going to have to work on that. I felt like such a idiot - i really thought he was going to be better than that. He is so good at home but he is like a different dog when hes around other dogs on a lead. Anyway, we'll give it another go next week. I just down know how to practice at home, as he's perfect at home. oh btw i thought steve austin did the training classes? he wasnt there. Edited September 10, 2005 by wagsalot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 With the off leash parks - have a cue ready before you let him off, like "go play" and then a "lets work" command for training. But I would repeat my advice - Is it possible for you to go to an off leash park and stand *far* away from the other dogs and do some basic training....gradually getting closer? What do you do when he plays up...correct him? ignore him? yell? It's not easy...but with a dog like that, there isn't much else you can besides carefully planning where he trains, rewarding all calm behaviour, and SLOWLY building up to such distractions. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 (edited) . Edited May 7, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagsalot Posted September 10, 2005 Author Share Posted September 10, 2005 But I would repeat my advice - Is it possible for you to go to an off leash park and stand *far* away from the other dogs and do some basic training....gradually getting closer?What do you do when he plays up...correct him? ignore him? yell? I can go to the offleash park, but at both ends it would be really hard trying to avoid the other dogs. I think wherever i went that some dogs would run up and try to play with riley. I am going to try the local park though late in the afternoon, as there is normally a few people walking their dogs round there (on lead) and kids playing, so that might be good to maybe start off with as there are some distractions, but i would also be able to stand away from them. When he plays up - for example today when he pulled the lady told me to pull him back (to be honest i didnt really want to do this as it put alot of pressure round his neck) and it didnt seem to be working, just made him pull more. If im walking him and he pulls i normally say "no" and just stop and stand still until he stops pulling, then start again and keep doing it everytime he pulls. This seemed to work well as he knew when he pulled he wants going to get anywhere. Then id reward him after he walks nicely for a while. But as we rarely see any other dogs on our daily walks, he rarely pulls anymore on our walks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 I am going to try the local park though late in the afternoon, as there is normally a few people walking their dogs round there (on lead) and kids playing, so that might be good to maybe start off with as there are some distractions, but i would also be able to stand away from them.When he plays up - for example today when he pulled the lady told me to pull him back (to be honest i didnt really want to do this as it put alot of pressure round his neck) and it didnt seem to be working, just made him pull more. If im walking him and he pulls i normally say "no" and just stop and stand still until he stops pulling, then start again and keep doing it everytime he pulls. I agree ... IMO you're better off going to an on-leash park, where the environment is, at least partly, controlled. I can understand your instructor's thoughts about allowing him off leash at the park all the time ... so he really hasn't learnt self control in the presence of other dogs and therein your problem lies. When he puts pressure on the lead, try not only stopping, but turn and walk completely the other way. Not only does he not get what he wants, but he achieves the opposite - he is taken away from what he wants. As he "comes through" (if you know what I mean) and the leash becomes loose, praise him/reward him. Turn again (sharp turns, not curves) and head back. Repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat. Allow him to keep heading towards what he wants PROVIDED he hasn't pulled on the lead. This is the difference between walking him on the harness, which is your "management" tool, and actually training him to exhibit leash manners. Time and patience, wagsalot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 I felt like such a idiot - i really thought he was going to be better than that. He is so good at home but he is like a different dog when hes around other dogs on a lead. Hi Wagsalot, Don't be so hard on your self. You get my thumbs up for making the effort to train your dog. If your dog was perfect you would not be going to training and the trainers know that. At least if he is naughty at training your getting your moneys worth. It wont happen overnight but it will happen......(stolen from an add) Thanks for the update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Could you explain to the instructor that you normally train with the harness on. They might allow you to leave the harness on but clip the lead to his collar. He obviously thinks that when the harness is on it means business, so this way he might gradually begin to understand that at training he must behave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Yep, don't be so hard on yourself (or Riley). I'd go to an on-leash park then as someone suggested, and *slowly* decrease the distance between you and other dogs. I don't think there is much point going to class if you spend the entire time correcting him or having him self-reinforce all the dog play. Just remember to focus on one criteria/behaviour at a time, so you can think clearly and communicate clearly to Riley I agree that "stand like a tree" doesn't always work, and my dog learnt loose leash when I learn the "walk backwards" method as it communicated clearly to him that "you pull, you don't get to go forward" rather than "huh? god, you're gonna stand still for a minute? Great". Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagsalot Posted September 11, 2005 Author Share Posted September 11, 2005 Thanks for all the help. I think i got better advice here than from all the obedience classes! I was just reading the other thread about walking harness and the gentle leader and easy walker. Do you think their worth a try? Id prefer to stick with the harness ive got now though as he thats working fine on walks. I will try the change direction method, over the standing still one and see how it goes. BTW i took riley to the paws in the park event today and there was lots of dogs around and he was actually quite well behaved. He was doing his sits and drops when i told him too and he normally never does when other dogs were around!! The only thing id like to work on is that if he was in drop position, if another dog came near us, he quickly get up without being "released". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 The only thing id like to work on is that if he was in drop position, if another dog came near us, he quickly get up without being "released". 'Down' is a very submissive position for a dog to be in. While he's down, he can't communicate with other dogs properly, he can't fight, and he can't run away. So it's asking quite a lot to make a dog assume a down position while there are strange dogs close by. If your dog is jumping up when another dog gets close, take that as a sign that you're pushing him too fast, and he's not yet comfortable being in an extended down that close to strange dogs. Ask for either shorter downs, or downs further away from the strange dogs. You want him to regard 'down' as a safe place, not have him feel uncomfortable and vulnerable there. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Yep I agree with Am - that's asking a lot more than he's trained for No point asking him to do more than he's capable of or that you've trained I don't think the harness will make much difference Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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