Not Eating Properly

[shekhina]

I am seriously beyond frustrated with Daegon's not eating now. For those who don't know, Daegon is a 13 week old Rottweiler. I have been very firm with him...if he doesn't eat I take it away and offer it again later etc etc. Eventually he'll eat a full meal and then starve himself again until he can't take it anymore and he'll eat another meal.

This is happening ALL the time...wont eat for 2 days, eat one meal, wont eat for the next two days eat one meal

He doesn't appear to be growing very well, I'm guessing that's because he's lacking so many things in his diet because he wont eat anything? He is considerably smaller than the other males in the litter. He is still well within himself, drinking well, playing, happy and all that...JUST WONT EAT.

Even with training, he doesn't seem very food orientated at all...he's far more interested in playing. I've tried just about everything to get him to eat and he wont. The only thing he seems interested in is chicken wings...and he can't eat those his whole life. I want him to eat puppy kibble as well as having other things, like chicken wings/necks, tuna, sardines etc. But he just wont eat anything except chicken wings/necks!

I'm starting to find it difficult not to show my frustration with it, I know that's not going to help matters...but I'm very concerned about him not growing very well.

He's been to the vet, he's physical health is fine. What should I do now?

[MolassesLass]

What time is he fed (evening, morning etc) and what are you doing at that time?

Where is he fed (in a crate, loose in back yard, in the kitchen etc)?

Perhpas he's being distracted by other activities (as puppy's do) and simply forgetting to eat. Did he eat dry food at the breeders place (what was the diet there?), maybe he's never eaten it and needs to be shown how to eat it. Make it more interesting by pouring something over it (gravy, stock etc) to make it soft and a little more flavoursome.

If the vet thinks he's fine though, it can't be too much of a problem.

[White Shepherd mom]

Shekhina, may I ask why he HAS to eat puppy kibble? Have you tried making his meal out of fresh ingredients and finding out what supplements to add for a growing pup? Maybe there's something in the kibble he doesn't like or doesn't agree with him so he would rather not eat it unless he is starving.

What did your vet recommend?

[shekhina]

I have tried feeding him in the kitchen while I'm not doing anything...removing all the other animals so he's not distracted...still wont eat. Tried the opposite so he thinks he's got some competition...still wont eat. I've tried feeding him in the backyard, still wont eat, in a crate, still wont eat. AAARRRR!!

He was fed both dry food and a BARF kinda diet at the breeders, which I'm trying to continue, although with far more emphasis on the puppy kibble than the raw meats. So he has eaten this kind of thing before.

I've tried putting sardines through it, tuna, yoghurt, CAT FOOD (he licked all the cat food off it then walked off ), I've tried soaking it in water, puppy milk etc.

I know he's not sick or anything like that because he's still very lively, but I am concerned about him not growing properly because of this.

ETA: he is being offered food four times a day, morning through till night. Also, the vet has reccommended feeding him puppy kibble. I am not comfortable feeding him a full BARF diet until he is at least 12 months old.

Edited August 30, 2005 by shekhina

[ellz]

If it is any consolation I'm going through the same thing now with Michael. He's only 11 weeks old and is getting rather skinny. BUT at the moment, as his brother is doing so nicely (and competition doesn't work with Michael either), I'm simply going to ignore him.

Where they used to have food on demand, now they're on a strict 4 x per day regime....take it or leave it. Zen takes it, Michael leaves it. Michael is getting skinny but is still as full-on as ever, so he can keep ON leaving it because I will NOT be dictated to by a white monster!

[poodlefan]

I'd say your pup is exercising extremely good sense. Its not that he's not eating, he's simply not eating kibble. There's a small possiblity that he's allergic to cereal or it gives him stomach pain and he's refusing it as a result. Second grade cereal and protein with stablizers, and hydrogenated fat ain't my idea of a good meal.

I'd recommend you kick the puppy kibble into touch. Starving your dog rather than giving him a raw diet is not going to produce the sound pup you want him to be. Furthermore puppy kibble usually has far too much calcium for a large breed pup.

Countless numbers of people, myself included have raised pups raw from the word go and have happy healthy adult dogs as result. If your vet won't support your decison to feed raw, find another one - they are growing in numbers.

Go out and buy Grow Your Pups With Bones, and give your pup the diet he is going to do well on. Its probably MORE beneficial he gets BARF now than when he's an adult.

You'll relax, he'll thrive and you'll both benefit.

Edited August 30, 2005 by poodlefan

[ellz]

If your vet won't support your decison to feed raw, find another one - they are growing in numbers.

Maybe in other States they are but it can be VERY hard to find a good "all purpose" vet in Tassie, let alone one which thinks out of the square.

I will add here that I've mentioned to Shekhina that I personally am not fond of the puppy kibble that she feeds. I wouldn't give it to my puppies but I respect the choices of other breeders and as that is what the puppy was reared on, she is perfectly correct to continue feeding it. I also know how expensive the outlay is so I can understand Shek wishing to at least get the maximum value out of what she has spent thus far.

My puppies have done well on a different kibble and I am currently trialling one of the more "expensive" foods on my adult dogs and will consider changing the puppies if the adults do well on it.

I've seen Daegon personally and by all accounts he is a "normal" little man, except for his eating habits. I was with Shekhina the first time she took him to the vet about his finicky eating and we all agreed that tough love may be the order of the day.

I would suggest that instead of offering him food 4 x per day, maybe until he starts eating, he should be allowed to become a tad "hungrier" between meals and twice per day might be a good compromise, at least until he gets into the habit of munching again.

[poodlefan]

Ellz, if all this puppy kibble is coming out of the one big expensive bag (or several smaller ones), there is another option to consider - its rancid.

It does happen - the mix of fats and stablizers isn't quite right or the bag hasn't been shipped and stored in optimum conditions.

I'd be having a really good smell of the bag and offering ANOTHER kibble as an option to find out what is going on.

[shekhina]

Well, I don't think the kibble is rancid...every other animal in the house falls over backwards to get at it. This hasn't just been a kibble thing either, when I first brought him home I was feeding him on the BARF diet and he was refusing that after a day or so as well.

Also, this pup has eaten kibble before at his breeders...I've asked their opinion and they think he is simply being very stubborn as some of the other pups from the litter are doing the same thing with all kinds of foods.

[Koza]

has he been to vet recently to check for any sores?

I'd think about fresh food, too. It's difficult to start with, but once you know all your ingredients, it's not so bad!

Another trick - could he be waiting for you to eat first or to allow him to eat? Try giving him food as a reward and after you had something in front of him.

*typed after previous post - not so relevant now:(*

How about veges in nice broth in addition to chicken wings? Most males adore soups....

Edited August 30, 2005 by Koza

[ellz]

It does happen - the mix of fats and stablizers isn't quite right or the bag hasn't been shipped and stored in optimum conditions.

I'd be having a really good smell of the bag and offering ANOTHER kibble as an option to find out what is going on.

Yes, I'm well aware of this...it would be hard NOT to be after 20 years.

Personally, as I've told Shek...the smell of the kibble she feeds doesn't appeal much to my nose when it IS good, let alone otherwise.

Whether she can feed another kibble is entirely her choice and may depend upon her pocketbook. I personally don't agree with a lot of chopping and changing, as has been expressed in other threads, because you could possibly contribute to the problem and encourage even more finicky behaviour.

Sometimes, offering a different food is like offering a child the choice of icecream instead of brussel sprouts. And given that a dog eats to live and doesn't live to eat, it shouldn't really matter WHAT is going into it, as long as SOMETHING is.

[poodlefan]

Shekina, "stubborn" in relation to food is us rationalising the dog's reaction. Prolonged lack of appetite is cause for concern in my book. There has to be a psychological or physical cause behind it.

I'd go for the 'eat or starve' option for about 4 days... if not improvement, I'd be exploring physiological causes. Do not write off food allergies.

The only other thing I can think of is that the portions for each meal are too big.

[shekhina]

Whether she can feed another kibble is entirely her choice and may depend upon her pocketbook.  I personally don't agree with a lot of chopping and changing, as has been expressed in other threads, because you could possibly contribute to the problem and encourage even more finicky behaviour.

Sometimes, offering a different food is like offering a child the choice of icecream instead of brussel sprouts.  And given that a dog eats to live and doesn't live to eat, it shouldn't really matter WHAT is going into it, as long as SOMETHING is.

Yes well, considering I eat pasta and tuna to feed these guys at the moment because work is non-existant changing to another kibble is not going to be possible right now.

I agree with the chopping and changing ellz has said...he wont eat his kibble/tuna/sardines/yoghurt/mince or whatever but the eyes soon light up and the bum starts wagging when he sees the chicken wings

ETA: the eat or starve option is what I have been doing, he will eat a meal (which is still not a huge amount of food, so I doubt the meal sizes are too big) and then he wont eat for up to two days, eat another meal and then repeat the cycle. I'm not sure about allergies, no matter what he eats his poos are not runny or any different, there has been no throwing up or itching or anything like that, so I really don't know

Edited August 30, 2005 by shekhina

[Koza]

Could it be too often - 4 times?

[shekhina]

Could it be too often - 4 times?

For a 13 week old puppy I don't think this is too many times per day to offer food...he doesn't eat it anyway so it's not like he's full

[ellz]

Could it be too often - 4 times?

That's one of the things that I suggested:

I would suggest that instead of offering him food 4 x per day, maybe until he starts eating, he should be allowed to become a tad "hungrier" between meals and twice per day might be a good compromise, at least until he gets into the habit of munching again.

I think the risk isn't so much now that Daegon is going to get sick, it's more that he is at risk of developing some form of psychological "barrier" to eating...ie anorexia.

I do think he's being stubborn, as is evidenced by the scoffing of the chicken wings and neglecting everything else. I doubt he is stupid and will simply allow himself to starve but I would seriously consider ditching that bag of kibble. Just holler and I'd be happy to shout Daegon another variety of kibble to see how he goes.

[shekhina]

Ooh, it makes me so mad to see him scoff chicken wings and then sniff something else and walk away

I'll try only offering him food twice a day for a bit and see if that gets him at least eating something both times...and I don't think he'll be getting any more chicken wings...he aint getting his icecream till he's eaten his damn greens

And no ellz you will NOT be shouting a bag of dog food, you have plenty of mouths to feed in your own house! Thank you for you very kind offer however

[ellz]

Well my friend, if you change your mind, please don't hesitate to "mention" something. Even drop a hint or two if you don't feel comfortable asking. OK? PROMISE ME!!!

On another note...there is a thread on an email list about anorexic dogs and some of the suggestions which have been given are interesting. One of them is to have tonsils checked. That is ALWAYS a good place to start. Open his fat gob and peer in and if you can see any redness or if you press firmly up behind his jawbone and he coughs or you can feel swollen glands, it could be a tonsil issue.

Other than that, suggestions are peppermint tea, Nutrigel (which we have already discussed with the vet and discarded) and/or Whey powder as a food additive. Also

'Collovet' has been suggested.

[poodlefan]

Shekina:

Ooh, it makes me so mad to see him scoff chicken wings and then sniff something else and walk away

Why? The fact that you paid more for the kibble is not occuring to him.

[shekhina]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, sorry.

It doesn't bother me the price I paid for the food he's not eating...what bothers me is that he will only eat one thing. Chicken wings alone is not a very balanced diet.