Barf Diet Myth

[gossco57]

Myths of feeding a BARF Diet..

A small segment of pet owners have accepted the opinions of a vocal fringe minority of individuals who are currently proponents of feeding raw foods . individuals within this group make substantiated claims that sound plausible but are unsupported by fact.

Myth#1--Claim similarities between modern wild canids and the domestic dog therefore having the same identical genetic development and nutritional needs as wild canids ..

Myth#2---increased disease levels and shortened life spans in pet dogs , versus claimed lack of disease and increased life spans in wild ancestral canids like wolves andCoyotes

Myth#3--claimed reduced levels of parasites ..

Myth#4-----claimed reduced levels of food intolerances .Adverse reactions to food and/or allergies ..

Myth#5 ---- Claims that feeding "raw meaty bones" are good for domestic dogs .

Myth#6---- increased value of uncooked food versus cooked and subsequent loss of trace micro-nutrients by the cooking process.

Popular discussions of Barf in the U.S is based to a large degree on Myths promoted by superficial and hyperbolic promoters of one product over another .. Barfers typically denigrate any information derived from scientific studies .Feeding a Barf diet is an emotional one not a science based decision. Making a decision based on an emotional one can lead people astray .

Eighty million years ago what is now the great plains of North America two archetypes of early canids competed...Epicyon was a Larger powerful carnivorous animal the size of a modern day wolf . Its primary prey were large ancestors of our today's modern Elk and Deer. ..Another early canid Eucyon shared the time and space with Epicyon..

Eucyon was the size of a modern fox and concentrated its efforts on smaller prey , scavenging any edible nutrient .

The larger Epicyon followed its very large prey into extinction . Adaptable eucyon with teeth suited for eating both meat and plants survived ...

Eucyon migrated into the old world and eventually evolved into modern wolves about 800.000 yrs ago

Researchers have found four distinct genetic groups in the dog world that suggests dog ancestors domesticated several times with-in the plus 100,000 yr window . A study conducted by Viland Maldonado at the department of evolutionary biology , Uppsala university in Sweden maternal DNA showed a separation of 135.000 yrs between modern domestic dogs and wolves .Coyote- Fox - Jackal DNA differ greatly from modern domestic Jackals - Coyotes - and Foxes by more than 400.000 yrs any comparison tothis wild group of canids with domestic dog is without merit, leaving the wolf as the only closely related wild canid . It is also interesting to "note" that DNA hybridization shows that the canine family diverged about 50 million yrs ago from other members of the carnivora family , the carnivores genus also includes purely herbivorous animals like the Giant Panda bear ( Ailuropoda-Melanoleuca)

Domestic dog ancestors must have gathered around the camp fires of man to scavenge left over trash. Individual animals that were less threatening or provided value to man by aiding the hunt would have survived better than those that were threatening or provided no value , as a consequence of natural selection those animals which survived also passed on a specific pool of genetic material .. the genetics passed on were influenced by the ability of the animal to inculate itself into human life , less and less threatening animals versus more helpful ones who were better suited to survive on scavenged food and human trash .. Evolution and mutation of the actual genetics of the wild canid ancestor were required to begin in the process of domestication .. The idea of taming a wild animal and going from their is neither factual or plausible, some genetic change was required ..Copinger and Copinger stated in their book "DOGS" a basic change has occurred , if not then today's wild wolf puppies tamed from birth would be capable of domestication ..

Barfers choose to believe that while the domestic dog developed eating anything and everything man threw away the last 100.000 yrs , not variation or nutrient needs or digestive abilities developed ..

one of the changes that natural selection wrought is a significant difference in the eye of modern day wolves and modern day domestic dogs .The topographical distribution of retinal ganglion cells in seven breeds of dogs ( Canis f Familiarus ) and in the wolf ( Canis Lupis ) was studied .. A prominate feature of wolf retinae was a pronounced "visual streak" of high ganglion cell density . By contrast a modern visual streak was found in dog retinae the estimated total number of ganglion cells averaged 2000.000cells in the wolf and 115.000 in the dog , almost half of that of the wolf, yet Barfers would have you believe there are neither biological nor physiological differences between the two ... Further evidence of evolutionary changes in the dog compared to the wolf abounds in studies and literature .. A study of 2,959 dogs across 40 different breeds genetic heterozygosity when compared to wolves .... There were 33 differences in muscular tendon strength and gut wall arterials and many other distinct differences in the internal organs and abilities..

The barfer emotional decisions to compare the feeding habits of wild canids to domestic dogs is without scientific foundation and places the domestic dog at risk ..

Comparing the current needs of a wolf to domestic dogs is not based in fact and certainly not based on 100.000 yrs of evolutionary time .. the ancestors of today's domestic dog excelled at living on human trash that contained both raw and cooked meats -vegetables and grain , those that survived were naturally selected, those individuals that did not survive and excel were unable to pass on their genetic code .. Since the modern wolf was not exposed to 1000,000 yrs of eating human trash the development of its nutritional needs was not altered in the same manner .. To expect two different species to have the same nutritional needs is simply not substantiated in History - Science or Logic .... Myth#2 -- Barfers frequently infer domestic dogs are plagued by disease and live miserable lives when fed a commercial food , they compare the wild animals like wolves- Coyotes - Jackals and others to dogs and decry what they believe to be increased levels of disease in domestic dogs .

The domestic dogs life span has increased monumentally over the past fifty years primarily due to better veterinary care Vaccines and nutrition , all of which come under attack by Barfers .

Coyotes - jackals and Fox have nothing genetically or evolutionary in common with today's domestic dog . The wolf on the other hand separated from the domestic dog 100.000yrs ago and is a distant ancestor .

Grey wolf life span in the wild is roughly 8yrs slightly higher in captivity when fed commercial foods .. Mexican wolf life spans 15yrs in captivity , less in the wild ... red wolf life span 4 yrs in the wild up to 14 yrs in captivity fed commercial foods .... Obviously a multitude of factors influence life span .Breed size of domestic dogs is very significant .. Smaller breeds typically live longer among domestic dogs as well as their wild cousins .. Wolves have an average life span in the wild of 4 to 8 yrs The smaller coyote is claimed to have a life span of as much as 15 yrs in the wild .. it is important to realize that as the life span increases others are decreased for traumatic death that is "Hit by cars , death by trauma is still the biggest cause of death with domestic dogs fewer deaths from diseases Distemper-Parvo.... As our pets live longer they also suffer from cancer heart disease and other geriatric illness .... Dogs living beyond previous life spans for any given breed are now common .Yorkies 25 yrs cats 23 yrs Rottweilers 15 yrs are no longer astounding rarities .

Evidence is also mounting of feeding a raw diet. Renal failure is the most common cause of disease and death in dogs and 2nd most common in cats. .. In a large study conducted by Dr Joe Barges and Dr Jean Dodds and Dr Susan Wynn they looked at blood work of over 200 Barf fed dogs and compared it to 75 dogs eating normal diets and used by the lab for reference values .... Mean Bun ( blood urea nitrogen) was higher in dogs eating the Barf diet ... Increased bun is the most critical values examined when looking for renal failure .. While it would be incorrect to state increased bun might cause renal failure it certainly is a significant warning of impending danger in geriatric dogs with undetected renal failure ..

Myth #3 Barfers supposed increased "immunity" and freedom from parasites and disease in regards to parasites . The wild wolf who eats only a barf diet is also equally susceptible to internal and external parasites and other canine diseases.. Wild wolf scat illustrates significant exposure and infection with various forms of internal parasites Studies also describe cases of tick born diseases - Parvovirus-Rabies and cancer among wild species of canids through out the world . Large wolf populations have been decimated by disease even when food sources were plentiful.... Eating raw food prescribed by barfers didn't help to prevent any of these diseases of common infections disease or parasites ...Myth #4 -- Barfers claim reduced food tolerances " Allergies ' ...... True allergies in domestic dogs are very rare Still rare but more common are food intolerances or adverse reactions , presenting , itchy - scratchy skin chronic ear infections- vomiting or diarrhea .. Between 8% to 11% of all dogs elicit adverse reactions to food at one point in their lives Studies have been published encompassing a large number of dogs covering Australia - U.S - N Zealand - Europe , That study revealed the following in descending order.. the major culprits in dogs Beef -- Wheat -- Dairy--- lamb----Chicken --- Egg----Soy----.. These seven items comprise 93% of all adverse reactions .. Internet mythology and unscrupulous manufactures anxious to create a niche in the market frequently ascribe Corn ... Yet corn is one of the least likely sources of intolerance .. Only 4% of the 8 to 11% of all intolerant dogs has shown intolerance to corn and rice .. Part of the problems is attributed to the use of ""ELISA"" blood tests for allergies which are well known and documented to be completely worthless in determining food adverse reactions .. Some vets continue to order these tests and rely upon them , thus providing poor information to their clients and increasing the perceived level of food intolerances that exist ....

Barers frequently say they have solved these food allergy problems by switching to a barf diet ... Dogs can show a reduction of symptoms by simply increasing the amount of essential fatty acids in the diet . Did the Barf diet substituting raw beef for the cooked change the animals reaction tothe beef protien molecule ????? NO . if the animal was intolerant of beef before it is still intolerant of beef .

Barfers typically eschew grains and vegtable matter as being unimportant and even inappropriate for the domestic dogs and concentrate on raw meat as the primary nutrient source never mind that Eucyon survived by being adaptable and eating anything and everything they could

Myth # 5 --- Feeding of raw bones is an integral part of the Barfers diet fad .Proponents claim no harm can come toany dog fed a raw bone , never mind the studies and vet clinics that have seen countless cases of impacted bones - Torn stomachs and other internal organs damaged as a result of this practice

What Barfers fail to recognize is that the wolf and other wild canids have developed a unique process to accommodate raw bones a process which Debbie Davidson wild life biologist with the International Wolf Center in Main who is the main field rep for the IWC wolves and other wild canids ( coyotes - Foxes) who have a mechanism that protects their internal organs when they pass the bones of wild animals through their systems ... the first feces produced after a kill are very dark and quite liquid like with very little form, it looks to us like diarrhea .. Wolves don't necessarily eat everyday and so the subsequent feces often reflect the same kill .. With each defecation the feces become lighter in color and contain more substance . becausethey often eat the entire animal that they kill they often ingest a lot of hair .. Towards the final defecations of the same kill hair can be seen in the feces actually wrapped tightly around any bones that are passed through ... this seems to protect the organs/passageways as the bones are eliminated ...Very few Barfers are feeding the whole carcass complete with hide and hair .. The availability of whole carcasses to most people is severely limited Even if Barfers were to find patches of hide to feed along with the raw bone today's naturally selected evolutionary model of domestic dogs does not have the ability to digest the bones in the same manner .. Domestic dogs have NOT been shown to be able to ""Wrap Bones in hair " to protect internal organs ..

Myth#6 Dogs and Cats fed raw beef paricularly the yeast, bone meal. muscle and gristle trim tissue and chicken parts such as necks or backs is that of digestive disorders and resulting deeper weaknesses such as :Allergies - Arthritis - IBS - Liver and Kidney or Thyroid imbalances plus poor immune responses and other organ issues including diabetes - Seizures .. This comment from dr Lisa S Newman Naturopathic doctor PHD and Dr Lee Veith DVM , tried using Barf diets in the treatment of pets .. All of the Barf diets tested had nutritional deficiencies or excesses that cause serious health problems when used in long term feeding ..

Equal concerns are the health risks associated with bacteria in raw food diets especially the home made diets that yielded E Coli ... Although owners claim that dogs are more resistant to pathogenic bacteria there is no evidence to support this claim . From the work of DR,s Freeman and Michel in the work they published in the march 2001 AVMA journal , barfers typically concentrate on ingredients and ignore nutrients . Ingredients give the pet owner no clue to an animals prospective ability to utilize the nutrients the ingredients bring to the animal .. An individual pet doesn't not take a molecule of Chicken protein and use that molecule to replace damaged muscle tissue ... it is the individual amino acids present with-in that molecule that the animal uses for biological functions ... barfers often denigrate amino acids- Vitamins - Minerals and other nutrients derived from one source or another and proclaim some magical value to nutrients from another source .....

Any nutrient from a grain is presumed by most Barfers to have lesser value than the same nutrient derived from a meat source .. Multiple scientific studies have proven this to be a complete fallacy . There is no traffic cop in the stomach that refuses entry for some nutrient derived from grain and permits the passage of the same nutrient derived from a meat source . For example : A molecule of Tryptophan an important amino acid whether derived from Soy- Corn- or Beef has equal value to the animal. While some nutrients are in greater abundance in some ingredients the biological value of the given nutrient is not negated simply because of the source ... barfers frequently denigate the value of grains inthe diet of domestic dogs the most commonly used grains in pet food is corn . About 99% of the starch fraction of the grain is digested in dogs This holds true in nearly all grains .. Grains like corn also contribute high levels of naturally occurring fatty acids, the starch fraction of any grains contribute valuable Amino Acids the building blocks to good health ..

Grains like corn also contribute high levels of naturally occurring Omega three fatty acid and the antioxidant Lutien , critical for long term health .. The starch fraction of any grain contributes carbohydrate which are a source of rapidly available energy that does not require the kidneys to process it before it can be utilized .

1000.000 thousand years of genetic mutation and natural selection made it possible for domestic dogs to derive a significant amount of value out of grains ... In the process of proclaiming great value to the Barf diet, proponents completely ignore one of the most common causes of death in the domestic pets " renal failure " In most cases the most common causes of death in domestic pets . proposed by the Barf diet recipes are excessive in calcium and phosphorus. While there is not data showing that feeding such a diet with high levels of calcium and phosphorus will cause renal failure , there is a mountain of data which Cleary shows renal failure can be greatly exacerbated by feeding such a diet ... most vet hospitals are unable to detect renal failure until 70% of the kidney is destroyed .. barfers loudly proclaim the value of "Raw" versus "Cooked " ..While there is no question while some nutrients are degraded by cooking There are also a number of nutrients that are unavailable to the animal unless cooked .. Sometimes there is a trade off ... for example : Vitamins are easily destroyed by heat where as catenoids are made more available by the softening effects of cooking .. Manufacturers can easily add in vitamins to increase levels in the a final products ..In some cases vegatables must be cooked to be safe to eat . Common starches are a good example of a nutrient that is virtually unusable unless cooked .. Cooking tomatoes increases Lycopene absorption Uncooked grains are virtually useless to dogs.. Digestibility as measured by protein efficiency ratio of raw kidney beans significantly improved when cooked .Typsin inhibitors isolated from buck wheat seeds are heat stable and can cause poor digestibility if not cooked before consumption. Commercial pet food manufacturers are well aware of the rate at which vitamins degrade during the cooking process .. it is a simple and inexpensive for manufacturers to add these nutrients into the product mix .. .

In contrast the Barfers fail to realize is that 100.000 yrs of natural selection have created a domestic pet that is attuned to the effects of cooking and eating human trash .. Failing to recognize 1000.000 yrs of natural selection evolution and mutation on the domestic dog can lead to erroneous assumptions because Barf proponents ignore nutrients in favor of ingredients , such diets end up unbalanced . .

Not one board certified veterinary nutritionist is a proponent of Barf feeding .. A commonly recommended barf recipe provides the animal with 50% more calcium than is appropriate and 22% more Phosphorous than an animal should have ,, such excessive levels can lead to a number of long term health problems ..

Human health concerns handling of raw meat is fraught with danger .. U.S consumers have become more careful over the past few years and the incidence of human disease as a result of Salmonella - Listeria _ Shigella and E Coli have been greatly reduced .. However the FDA has taken NOTE of increased risk to humans feeding raw meat to their pets. A draft notice was issued by the FDA December 18th 2002 it states : FDA does not believe that raw meat foods are consistent with the goal of protecting the public from significant health risks particularly when such foods are brought into the home and/or used to feed domestic pets , the potent for risk to public health from such products is undeniable and the magnitude the feeding of raw diets to dogs and cats may affect children, elderly, or other human inhabitants of the same household ...

In a Canadian study published in June 2002 by Joffe el al Studied the shedding of Salmonella organisms in the feces of dogs fed raw diets .. Salmonella was isolated from 30% of raw fed dogs , which means the dogs fed raw diets were spreading salmonella about the back yards and other areas of the household .. The bacterial contamination may not affect most dogs and many humans may be relatively safe in a bacterially infected area , but some humans and canids may end up succumbing to this powerful bacterial infection .. The handling of all raw meats for human consumption nearly always entails cooking and consumers have become accustomed to careful handling .. This care goes by the wayside when our pets are fed raw meats. The contaminating bacterium from the meat is spread around the dogs mouth and face as it consumes the meal . Consumers who pet their dogs anytime after a meal may contaminate themselves or their children ........The USDA estimates salmonella present in 35% of Turkeys 11% of chickens and 6% of ground beef .... Each year food born pathogens like Salmonella - Clamylobacter - e Coli - Shigela and Listeria cause 76 million illnesses and 5.000 human deaths ..

E Coli kills an estimated 60 people nation wide every yr and sickens another 73.000 despite vociferous claims to the contry ... Pets fed Barf diets do succumb to the bacterial species commonly found in raw un-cooked foods the literatures contain numerous examples of such deaths and diseases .. An example is a Papillion breeder in Texas who fed a raw chicken based diet.. Two dogs developed gastrointestinal signs and died with in 48 hours of exposure ..

The species of salmonella found in the gastric mucosa was identical to that found in the chicken ... Salmonella Heidelburg was cultured from the dead dogs as well as the chicken food source .... The Barf myth that dogs can somehow handle contaminated foods is simply that a ""Myth " unfounded in reality and dangerous in its application .....

Even Lawyers are becoming concerned of the legal risk to vets suggesting raw diets .Center for Disease Control and Prevention indicates a nexus exists.... The Companion Animal Practice Council also recommended against feeding raw foods in guidelines they unveiled ..

To compare the wild canid with the domestic dog is fraught with error .. the life span of wild candids is nothing any of us would want to inflict upon our own pets .. . it has been discovered to feed raw bones unaccompanied by the hair and hide to a domestic dog unequipped with the ability to ""Wrap the bones with hair " is an accident looking for a place to happen Studies have proven BARF fed wild canids are no more immune to disease and parasites than domestic dogs . We have also learned that micro nutrients may well be found in raw foods but also may only exist in cooked foods .. The domestic dog separated from their closet cousins the Wolf 1000.000 yrs ago ... . How to feed your pet is your choice but it should be based upon real evidence and real fact and based upon the facts of board certified canine nutritionists Refuse to let fantasy and fads rule you're emotions , which can have devastating affect upon the health of your pet, your children or yourself .. Maggie Weeks ....

[cdenyer]

I guess what you are saying is you don't like the BARF diet?Don't know where you pulled all that from, have you read any books on the barf diet to get their point of view?

Each to their own, I know for a fact that my 2 dogs certainly benefit from this diet and I will NEVER again feed my dogs processed food.

Chris

[Nadia]

My dogs have been happily eating raw since long before BARF meant anything to do with dog feeding.

It works for me, and my dogs are happy and healthy.

[PAX]

Do you work for a Pet food company?

[Toohey]

Oh Gawd, I couldn't be bothered reading all that!

What's the point of it all? Are we supposed to feed Pal?

[peterpumpkin]

weird

[Vehs]

Yeah, what's the alternative they offer up - sawdust, scrappy commerical petfood?

[gossco57]

My dogs have been happily eating raw since long before BARF meant anything to do with dog feeding.

It works for me, and my dogs are happy and healthy.

This was never meant to change anyone perspective of what they should feed there dogs purely to point out another persons point of view.

[KitKat]

Gossco57...you might want to put a link to where you found that info...you could be up for copywrite if your not careful..

[gossco57]

Gossco57...you might want to put a link to where you found that info...you could be up for copywrite if your not careful..

Comment taken

but it was written by a friend and I had that persons permission

[Guest Pandii]

Going back to cute guy thread now.............................

[gossco57]

Going back to cute guy thread now.............................

That my friend is the truth....however the mistake i made as I should have done so in the first instance indicated that it was one point of view. I never asked anyone to agree with it just inform and let you make up yor own mind. For surley that is what we are entiltled to do.

Edited August 21, 2005 by gossco57

[Tonymc]

yes it makes me wonder what Petfood Company is behind this?Like some of the other posters I in my own Dogs for years have seen them do much better on a Barf type Diet. Tonymc

[fifi trixibell]

Going back to cute guy thread now.............................

I couldn't be bothered reading it either. I know what works for my dogs and it is NOT canned food.

What cute guy thread

Ange

[gossco57]

What ever works for you is important but have you ever thought of the ironey of it that you all knock canned dog food Pal is one for instance and yet how many shows are sponored by pal. And before you ask again i do not work for a canned dog food company.

i do other than feed good quality dog food cooked chicken meat turkey but all cooked. Good quality Dry Dog Food Fresh Fruit Canned or fresh vegtables.

And chew on a nylabone.

Initially when it was given to me I thought it was too much to read however with an open mind and the thought that if I learn something to better my dogs diet it was worth it I did.

Edited August 21, 2005 by gossco57

[PAX]

What ever works for you is important but have you ever thought of the ironey of it that you all knock canned dog food Pal is one for instance and yet how many shows are sponored by pal. And before you ask again i do not work for a canned dog food company.

Did you ever think about how many cigarette companies sponsered huge sporting events until cigarette advertising was banned. Does that mean cigarettes are good for us?? We all know the answer.

The whole argument you posted is floored and if you dont understand why i feel it is not worth taking the time to point it out to you.

[Prydenjoy]

Which cute guy thread???

[arawnhaus]

Hello gossco57,

I read most of your initial post,

I think a thread such as this will surely stir the pot..if only a little,

I do not feed BARF to any dogs i own or rescue,

I too give a combination of a high quality dryfood and cooked steak or chicken breast

vegies they have instead of cow legs(those huge bones) to knaw on,

Personally i only go near a vet when i must!

I have never had problems with physical or coat conditions,

DOGS ARE NOT OBLIGATE CARNIVORES so i wont feed them as such.

The canine eating habit is best described as omnivorus not just my opinion but many experts etc agree to this....

It has been and will be one of those "GREAT" DEBATES FOREVER ;)

Petfood companies are not the only folks not into barf plenty of people across the entire world do not promote raw feeding habits on domesticated animals

p.s I enjoyed the read

[JENCOL]

Thank You for your point of view, we are each entitled to our own. However how many clinical studys have actually compared between a raw based diet and a commercil diet? None that i can think of nor find (yes I have searched). Commercial foods have only become popular in the last 50yrs before that scraps and raw was the only option. Before you say yes but canine life span was far reduced 50 yrs ago, this was also a time pre vaccination of pets and before a time when mineral and vitamins where heard of let alone vet visits if your dogs where un well, what ever argument you take there are no winners and no lossers at this time! Until clinical studys are undertaken no one can give a definative answer however I know that my dogs are far healthier on a raw diet then they ever where on commercial diets. My dogs go to the vets for Vaccinations and the occasional accident, this indicates to me that they are healthy. My friends aged bitch is almost 14yrs, she is as spritely as a dog far younger and has been fed raw for the past 10yrs, she was placed under a naturopaths care when the vets failed to help her skin condition, on raw foods her skin condition has cleared and looks like she could live forever!

There may be no clinical studys supporting raw diets however the anecdotal evidence is there should you look hard enough. Until someone with large sums of money supports a clinical study comparing Commercial and the Barf/raw diet there will be NO evidence of the benefits/cons of Raw feeding.

Thats it brain hurts now and sick of typing, the end of this tail is as gosssco57 says do what you think is right.

My 2 bobs worth

Jen

Edited for some of my crap spellin, I apologise if i didn't get it all!

Edited August 21, 2005 by JencolsmoothsandGSD

[JENCOL]

OK previous post spelling and grmmer may not be up to par, for that I am sorry but I am tired and my fingers get away from me when on a subject I am passionate about.

In the end, Just Love your fur babies!

Jen