Changing Eating Habits

[Jim]

I wonder if anyone can advise me on this one?

As some of you will know, my wife’s and my breeding kennels closed down almost a year ago.

All of the dogs are gone now except for our pets.

When we had umpteen dogs, feeding had to be done in a certain manner.

Specifically, mealtime was a set time of the day, and each dog was fed independently.

Now that we have only 4 dogs, and cats….we would like to just leave food down for everyone and let them graze.

The cats in particular prefer it this way.

Trouble is, as soon as food appears to any of the dogs, they immediately assume “Dinner Time” and down it goes.

We tried just continually putting more down until they got the idea that food would always be there but I honestly think they would have eaten themselves silly if I hadn’t stopped doing that.

I guess basically, I lost my nerve.

I’ve had to barricade the lounge room so the cats can graze and the dogs can’t get to it, but that’s going back to grates at the doors which is something we’ve lived with for too long, and the dogs can’t get into where the family is at night.

No good.

That’s not what we want.

These are older dogs, ranging from 12 years down to 2 years.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[haven]

Let them eat at a specified time? You probably don't need me to tell you that dogs and cats tend to live a feast or famine lifestyle and many, dogs particularly, will continue to eat food if they have access to it.

Perhaps you can feed the cats somewhere above ground level, so they can graze but the dogs can't get to it?

[Nadia]

Jim,

We have 3 resident moggies, and the dogs would just hoover down the cat food if we left it down, so we have solved our problem by putting the cats food up on a benchtop in the sleepout.

The cats can come and go and eat as they please and the woofers cannot reach it.

Trying to feed the dogs the same way when they are so used to routine will take some time, but the cats should be easy.

Cheers

Nadia

[Guest Pandii]

Hi we have had some rescues come through that are starving and gulp all food as soon as they see it, but over time they learn to graze and not gulp,

Now before I right this I have had no training and do what I think is in the dogs best intrest

I fed rescue dogs a few meals often every hour or so not alot of food each time, after about a week of getting food often plus bones they start to learn that there is food here and they are going to keep getting fed so they dont gulp and snatch but will sit and wait, then I will feed a big bone and put kibble in their dishes when they cant see but are chewing their bones, then after a while they relise oh the is food there all the time, and they start to graze

Sorry about the long post but I like my dogs to graze for a few reasons, but number one is the take it or leave it attitude they get to food, this makes it safer when kids are around and minimises food aggression issues.

The only draw back I found was that they are no food motivated for reward training

Hope this makes sense

[haven]

I hear what you are saying Pandii, but I personally think that dog who are resource guarders are always going to be even if you feed them in this way.

Jim, I think that changing your dogs over to grazing when they have been fed by the clock thus far would be difficult if not impossible. But if you were to try I guess Pandii's way of feeding little bits at a time might do it, although it means more work in the initial stages (IE regular feeding).

[Guest Pandii]

Hi Haven

as I said this is just what I do because I do

It is a bit of work and you go through alot more food and its not for fat dogs

I have only done this with Koolies and Rotties and I have had success.

I have kibble out 24/7 and feed raw food and bones at other times, My guys know that food is always here, so they dont hurry to eat it, but they still will eat the cat food or kitty litter if given half a chance. Thank god cats can jump up high than dogs LOL

[Toohey]

Do you know what came to my mind when I read this?

Patient controlled analgesia. Yes, strange, but bear with me!

After operations, patients are given a machine whereby they can give themselves morphine/pethidine.

The machine is tamperproof, and will only deliver a set dose at set intervals. If the patient tries to does themselves before the time is up, the machine won't let them.

Something much more simplified, but along those lines may work here. Perhaps a regulated self feeder of some sort?

Yes, the idea definitely needs work, but worth a mention maybe?

[Staranais]

Hey Jim,

When I had a cat I used to leave biscuits out for her, but put them up in a high place (either on top of a cupboard, or on a high stable shelf, depending on where we were living.)

Since she was much more agile than the dog, she could reach the shelf and bowl of biscuits easily, whereas the dog couldn't even see them let alone reach them.

Could something like that work for you?

ETA - sorry Nadia, just saw you suggested something similar.

Edited August 20, 2005 by Amhailte

[ellz]

Something much more simplified, but along those lines may work here. Perhaps a regulated self feeder of some sort?

Yes, the idea definitely needs work, but worth a mention maybe?

Actually, our local discount shop has something like this. It is basically a flatt(ish) plastic food bowl with an upturned plastic cannister attached to it. Similar to those water bowls you can get where you upend the coke bottle and screw it into the bowl.

But as far as grazing goes....I have American Cockers and a Staffordshire Bull Terrier...potentially two of the WORST garbage-guts breeds you could have. My older dogs are ok with the grazing principle and rarely clean their bowls in one sitting...preferring to do sneak attacks during the day for the odd snack or two.

The cats are fed on top of the clothes dryer. They always have dry food available and get extra "wet" food when the dogs are given theirs at night.

I've found that this is the easiest solution all round.

[haven]

Pandii!

I'm glad your Rotti can regulate his/her own feed safely, mine would be a barrel on legs in no time

[sas]

Cats are grazers and eat when they have to, dogs just eat whatever is there and just keep going, I think ifyou want them to graze it will have to be slowly incorporated.

However to make sure the dogs are getting their fair share of food is there a reason why you don't want to feed the at one time? Or do you have quite a few at home that doesn't make that viable?

[KOE]

My cats get their dry left on the washing machine where the dogs can not get it and are fed wet food at 6pm (cant stand 4 cats screaming at me) the dogs get fed their main meal used to be at 6pm but is now later because it gets to hot here, then I leave a boowl for a night snack, and that is usually at 3am. Then they have breakfast in the mornings depending on time I go to work.

I tried one of those self feeders and they ate the plastic bit.

Your dogs are probably used to being fed at a certian time so I think it may be easier to feed the cats up high as suggested and stagger the dogs meal times making it at all different times and gradually leave extras.

[Jim]

Hi everyone, and thanks heaps for your input.

The concept of separating the cats food so the dogs can't get to it is basically the solution we have now.

By putting the grates back up.

Before the grate, we put the cat food on the kitchen counter.

That worked fine, until kittens arrived.

The idea of allowing the cats access where the dogs can't go may well be the final solution, but I wanted to hear if it was feasible to re-train the dogs.

I guess what I'm basically hearing is that dogs and cats have different requirements regarding this.

Sas summed it up with "Cats are grazers and eat when they have to, dogs just eat whatever is there and just keep going"

Except for Pandii of course.

What you're describing sounds interesting.

A little bit in the bowl until they get the idea.

Maybe my mistake was to put a full bowl down each time.

I really hadn't considered rescue as a possible source of a solution but of course, you guys deal with dogs with various food issues all the time.

I thank you for you input.

Sas...in answer to your question.

When we had many more dogs than we have now, practical considerations dictated we feed them all at the one time, individually.

They just got used to that.

Now that we are just basically pet owners, we don't have the same needs and it would be much better if we could just let them graze. But breaking these long held habits may be difficult.

I have a feeling the grate is going to have to stay up a while longer.

Tamara, our eldest and most stubborn girl will be leaving home with my daughter in less than a years time.

Indy, my own personal alien has a degenerative spinal condition that I have been told has no cure.

He also probably has only about a year left here.

When he goes, little Midget may have to go with him. Midget is a pup, now 6 yrs old, that shouldn't be here. She has more problems than Ned Kelly and Indy keeps her out of trouble. Apart from Midgets degenerating condition, she and Indy are inseparable. Midget without Indy is unthinkable. She barely copes with life with him. Without him....not going to happen.

That just leaves little BillyBob.

Maybe I should slowly work on her, and let nature take its course with the other guys.

In the meantime, whats another year with grates at the doors? Unless I can find somewhere else to feed the cats?

Maybe.....

[ellz]

Unless I can find somewhere else to feed the cats?

Maybe.....

I don't know if this would work for you but friends of mine in the USA converted an old kitchen cupboard to a cat feeding station. The cupboard was similar to one of those two-door jobbies with the stiff latches that are common in older housing department houses.

They basically cut an opening in one of the doors (like a porthole type effect), at a height where the dogs wouldn't jump into the hole but where the cats could access freely.

Inside, they put in another 1/2 shelf for the food and at the bottom on the inside dividing wall, they cut another opening into the next cupboard which was where the litter tray was placed. That side of the cupboard had the back taken off it and replaced with heavy mesh so that there was plenty of airflow around the litter and this prevented any moisture build-up or retention of smells which also meant that the cats were still happy to eat in the cabin next door.

Naturally, you needn't put your litter tray in the cupboard, if you don't have a problem with them but certainly the food side strikes me as being a possibility.

[Jim]

Not a bad idea Ellz.

Its a bit like brainstorming isn't it?

If you've ever done that.

One idea leads to another which leads to yet another.

Your idea has sparked that chain off.

I've got a couple of things going through my mind as possibilities now.

Thank you.

[ellz]

hehe....I LOVE brainstorming!!

So glad I could be of assistance...let us know how you get on and what you ultimately end up with.

Hey, maybe you could patent it and sell it to others with puppy/pussy dynamic issues?