"allergy" On German Shepherd

[dae2]

Hi,

I have a 5 years old German Shepherd and he was quite healthy until about 9 months ago when I found that his stomach area and his legs covered with large pimples. The naked area between legs was of a deep red color. I took him to a vet and they said that it is an allergic reaction to something, but there were no changes neither in environment nor in his food. The only change was new neighbour who does not like any animals . After a course of antibiotics things got better, but only for a months or two. After this period things came back but with more complications, now on top of skin problems dog's ears got some infection as well and nose was coverid with some crust. Another visit to vet and another "allergy" diagnose and another 400$ worth of tablets and drops for ears. Again it worked only for about month or two and problems are coming back again.

Has anyone seen/heard of anything like this? What vet can you recommend in Gold Coast area? I know that I can do test to various allergens, but it is an expensive and inconclusive excercise and I don't really believe in "allergy" theory as nothing really changed in environment and period over which it occurs eliminates any types of flowers or plants producing something what can cause allergy.

Please help.

Andre.

[Tilly]

My GSD has an allergy to "something" when we first got him (He had big red welts on his tummy and groin area).

By adding "Omerga 3" to his diet it cleared up really quickly. We now just add sardines to his diet and he has had no further problems.

I brought the Omega 3 from our local pet shop - the dosage was 1 pump for every 7kg. Initially we double dosed for the first 2 or 3 days and then normal dose after that. After a few months we just reduced the dose and included sardines in its place.

It is definately worth a try - Omega 3

Edited August 8, 2005 by Tilly

[Axel]

You say your neighbours dont like animnals?

any chance they could be popping something over the fence your unaware of???

its a little weird considering nothing has changed other than the neighbours, to have such severe symptoms.

only other things i can suggest it might be (hard without pics) would be have they swabbed for mange or mites?

and has the dog been getting wet and not dried off properly?? could be a type of wet dermatitis (?sp?)

[dae2]

Thanks for the suggested Omega3 I will give it a try.

As about possible poisoning, that is what I was suspecting all time long, but I can't find any traces of anything unusual on my backyard. I will make couple of pictures of affected areas and post them here.

Thank you for the advises.

Andre.

[holly]

Hi Dae

my girl developed a crusty nose and also skin itching last year, at age 5 and she was on basically the same diet for the last 2 years, I have worked through her diet and found out what triggers her allergies, she didn't have ear problems, thou my pup we bred that came back with allergies, had crusty ears and 'elephant like' skin with every little hair.

Both dogs are now maintained on diets that suit their individuality, I am happy to share here, or if you want to PM me you are welcome.

Edited August 8, 2005 by holly

[morgan]

GSD's digest fats and proteins a bit differently to other breeds, and over time can get a build-up of histamines in their system, which causes numerous skin problems.

A friend has spent over $2,000 in 2 years on vet treatments for skin conditions, tried BARF, the lot - nothing worked til he put the dog on Royal Canin GSD food. The dog has completely healed up, regained weight and DOESN'T SMELL anymore! (There is nothing worse than the smell of a GSD with really bad skin )

Worth a try, and cheaper than vet visits.

[espinay2]

A couple of things to investigate if you havent done so already - I would get a full panel thyroid test done to ensure levels are normal. I would also investigate the skin condition Sebaceous Adenitis to see whether it fits your dogs symptoms at all.

Are you positive nothing has changed? Rememeber even neighbours spraying poisons on plants which are carried by the wind into your yard can sometimes have an effect. You have used no lawn treatments at any stage? What about what you wash his bedding in? Or clean the carpet with if he comes inside?

[zayda_asher]

Nothing has to have changed. Allergies develop over time normally. Most dogs will not start to show symptoms until 1.5 years or later. They will be most commonly allergic to the things they are exposed to the most, esp. those things exposed to when young.

This sounds like allergies for sure. The pimpling on the skin sounds like classic staph infection from atopic allergies and the ears sound like classic yeast infection from allergies.

I'd ask for a referral to a dermatological specialist and get intradermal skin testing done and also go through an elimination diet.

The treatments the vets have given you are treating the symptoms (ie: the secondary skin infections) not the cause (the allergy) which is why the problem keeps recurring... You need to find out what the dog is allergic to and remove the allergens or treat the allergy (for example through Immunotherapy).

Dan

[dae2]

Dear All,

Thank you for your comments. My breader advised me when I was getting a puppy from him to feed dog with Eukanuba brand soaked in worm water in the evening and give him raw chicken wing in the morning. That's the way he feeds his dogs and they all look very healthy. I basically followed his recomendations from the very beginning, there were no changes to his diet since I've got him (just obviously change from puppy to adult maintance lines of Eukanuba). Please see the images of the affected areas if it will give any other clues, although Omega 3 and tea tree oil sounds like a good candidates for trying to start with.

Thank you.

[dae2]

More:

[zayda_asher]

there were no changes to his diet since I've got him (just obviously change from puppy to adult maintance lines of Eukanuba).

As previously stated there doesn't have to have been a change in his diet as allergies develop over time normally... Those spots in the photos could be staph infection, as I said before this is a common secondary infection in allergies, and commonly starts as small pimples and develops into round patches that are often mistaken for ringworm... If its food related it is most likely the grain or beef used in Eukanuba or the chicken or all of these things... Air born (atopic) allergies are more common than food allergies and are also possible (staph infection is more common with airborn allergies). Because they are air born they can travel for miles to infect the system of the individual - something could well have changed in the overall environs that you don't know about.

See the dogs in my avatar? The cream one is so severely allergic (food and atopic) that she had them from the time we bought her home (7 weeks)... they didn't want to admit it was allergies at first because she was considered TO YOUNG to have developed them yet!!!!

The other one has severe atopy and contact allergies as well as a strong sensitivity to most chemicals and preservatives. He DEVELOPED his over time and was not manifesting until past his first year of life. His main outward symptom is recurrent staph infections...

Allergies also have late on set, that is they develop due to changes in the body as it ages... I know dogs that haven't developed allergies until they were seniors.

Do some research on the net on allergies, symptoms and development... I'd still be going to see a Dermatologist.

Dan

Edit: spelling

Edited August 9, 2005 by zayda_asher

[holly]

I agree Dan with what you say.

My GSD's that have had allergies, started off as healthy dogs and over time, allergies became apparent.

The ones I am having trouble with now, on say Advance Adult will scratch and chew, yet on say Advance Large Breed Growth, all are giong great, I havemine dogs on this now. I have better success too if I cook the chicken mince for the one that is on a chicken and rice diet, as opposed to raw. I also add some vitamin and mineral supplements such as LSA, kelp and have been trialing Olewo too and also whatever vegetables come off the table.

Now the skin dog I had back, started off the biggest puppy in the litter, his owner changed the diet the pup was being fed to one full of colourings etc and no flea control. Through time, the pup developed allergies to the food and fleas. Within 4 months of coming back, he went from an underweight, hairless dog with crusty stinky ears and smelly skin to healthy again.

His flea control was and remains fortnightly as he now has no tolerance to the flea saliva. He was on third daily Maleseb washes, to clear up the secondary skin infection from the scratching and chewing adn Suralin and Leo Ear Cleaner, every day for a fortnight. It is only occassionally needed now

Just like humans, dogs can develop allergies and it is a process of elimination to find what works for each dog, some are as tough as nails, but others not so adn GSD are well known to suffer from allergies.

If feeding Eukanabu, then perhaps this dog may benefit from Euk. FP, skin and coat and fed nothing else.

There are two ways tackling this, have more extensive pathology tests carried out, or, try a process of elimination within the diet and enviroment first. They say that 85% of allergies are caused by fleas, 15% by food/genetics

Below is information written by Dr Karen Hedberg for GSDCAust

DEEP STAPH PYODERMA

Deep Staph Pyoderma (Furunculosis/Folliculitis/Cellulitis) - Seen almost exclusively in middle aged GSD’s, usually over 5-6 years of age, with probably a slightly higher incidence being seen in females. Most cases have a pattern of frequent relapses and the condition is thought to have an immunological basis.

Symptoms - Often with a history pattern of intense puritis prior to condition breaking out. Areas affected rump, back, flanks and thighs in a bilaterally symmetrical pattern. Some individuals have more extensive lesions affecting the chest and neck. The head, ears and front legs are rarely involved.

Causes - The condition is thought to have an immunological basis. Bacterial hypersensitivity, genetic predisposing factors, immune deficiencies and hypothyroidism have all been considered as precipitating or complicating factors.

Treatment - Consists of periodic courses of antibiotics, and ongoing use of low doses of cortisone 2-3 times weekly. Numbers of these cases are low, but due to the severity of the infections that occasionally build up, these dogs require constant care and ongoing medication. Treated carefully, these dogs can be kept comfortable over 4-6 years, but will not cure, and gradually over time may get more severely affected. Severely affected dogs, if not treated adequately, should be euthanased.

ACANTHOSIS NIGRICANS

Acanthosis Nigricans - Often this condition is associated with a hypothyroidism. It is considered to be secondary to endocrinopathies (including hypothyroidism, sex hormone “imbalances” etc) and hypersensitivities (chronic reactions, atrophies, etc; ie. arising from auto-immune deficiencies or hyper-sensitivities).

Age - Can start as early as 12-18 months of age, average age of onset around 3-4 years of age, gradually getting worse with age and in the hotter humid months.

Symptoms - Characterised by auxiliary hyperpigmentation, thickening of the skin, sebhorrea of the auxiliary skin areas and of the ears, and hair loss in a bilateral symmetrical pattern. Earliest signs are hyper-pigmentation of the auxiliary areas followed by thickening of the skin and increasing sebhorrea (greasy, rancid skin).

These dogs again would have to be considered as having an immune system problem. These dogs are not that uncommon and most surgeries that seen reasonable numbers of GSD’s would have around 10 cases ongoing at any one time.

HYPOTHYROID

Hypothyroid - Not a high incidence within the GSD breed, but as with all chronic conditions affecting large areas of the body or involving several body systems, eg. acanthosis, then it should be considered as a possible underlying factor. Equally true (chicken and the egg problem), is that the thyroid levels can be lower in any chronic debilitating condition. Rarely seen under 2-3 years in the GSD.

Symptoms - Include thinning of the coat, poor top coat, excess weight and sluggish disposition with no change in diet/amounts fed, poor reproductive history (often where initial history was very good).

Diagnosis - Test T4 levels, dogs showing symptoms and below or on the lower end of the normal range should be supplemented to see the affect, if needs be, re test levels 6 weeks later.

Treatment - Usually use drugs such as Oroxine, dosages in dogs is generally much higher than in humans due to lower absorption of the drug from the intestine. Can be associated with Acanthosis Nigricans

DYSCOID LUPUS ERYTHEMATOSIS

Dyscoid Lupus Erythematosis - Cutaneous (of the skin), this is an immune system problem, where the exposed skin is over sensitive, particularly to the summer sun.

Breeds - Predisposed breeds include the GSD, Collie, Sheltie, Siberian Husky and Malamute.

Age - Onset varies, but usually the cases seen are over 3-4 years of age.

Symptoms - Signs initially are depigmentation of nose and lips, this progresses to ulceration, tissue loss and scaring. Ears, eye rims, feet and genitalia may also be affected. Exposure to ultraviolet radiation will acerbate the condition. In the GSD it is primarily to nasal area that is affected.

Treatment - With suitable creams (zinc, sun block) and cortisone orally. This condition is largely controllable. Excessive exposure to summer sun should be avoided. This is an immune system problem. Numbers seen are very small proportionally.

[zayda_asher]

The ones I am having trouble with now, on say Advance Adult will scratch and chew, yet on say Advance Large Breed Growth, all are giong great, I havemine dogs on this now.

Holly,

Having read about your dogs before I can only say that they seem to have been really complicated cases! You've done a great job with them!

With the food have you checked to see if there is anything different in the Adult and large growth formulas... all I can think of is that there is something in one and not the other that they either don't do well with or need... ??? Any way, what ever works, works right?!

Asher (the blue boy) has a real severe flea allergy and we never knew until he had his intradermal skin testing done because he was always up to date with treatments and had never been bitten (and we fortunately seem to have very few issues with fleas where we are)!! So sometimes things are masked by something else any way as well...

Dan

[dae2]

Thanks Zayda. I am hesitant to do a full allergic investigation, because quite a few people mentioned to me that first it is non-conclusive - allergen may be found or may be not and second it is lengthy and costly exercise. Out of your experience how good are those dermatologists and how much I am looking at? Also do you know of a good dermatologist in Gold Coast or Brisbane area?

Cheers.

[dae2]

Sorry Dan, I did not read properly your signature so I just used your nick.

Thank you Holly, I will try manipulate his food and post here if I have any luck.

Regards,

Andre.

[zayda_asher]

Intradermal skin testing for atopic allergies is good. Its the same test they use for people where they prick the skin with allergen and look for a reaction. Ours cost about $280 by the time you take into account a full day in hospital, sedation, and the actualy testing.

Don't go for blood testing if they offer it for food allergies, these are not worth it and my dermatologist wont even use it because they are broad and inconclusive.

The best testing for food allergies is an elimniation diet and the success of this is dependant on you and how careful you are as you are the one doing it. A good dermatologist will teach you how to do this and coach you through the process.

Dermatologists are like any body: there are good and bad ones... I can only speak for mine and say that she is very good.

It is a lengthy process and it is expensive (specialists normally are). But in the long run, IMO, it is cheaper in money, time and emotional cost than trying to constantly treat symptoms without knowing what you are actually dealing with.

Sorry, I'm on the other side of the country, so not sure of any Derms in your area... maybe one of the Queensland people will know....

Dan

Edited August 9, 2005 by zayda_asher

[zayda_asher]

Sorry Dan, I did not read properly your signature so I just used your nick.

No problems

Dan

[holly]

The ones I am having trouble with now, on say Advance Adult will scratch and chew, yet on say Advance Large Breed Growth, all are giong great, I havemine dogs on this now.

Holly,

Having read about your dogs before I can only say that they seem to have been really complicated cases! You've done a great job with them!

With the food have you checked to see if there is anything different in the Adult and large growth formulas... all I can think of is that there is something in one and not the other that they either don't do well with or need... ??? Any way, what ever works, works right?!

Asher (the blue boy) has a real severe flea allergy and we never knew until he had his intradermal skin testing done because he was always up to date with treatments and had never been bitten (and we fortunately seem to have very few issues with fleas where we are)!! So sometimes things are masked by something else any way as well...

Dan

I am not sure what the difference is, the Lge Breed Growth has less fat/protein then the Puppy, I think they are all basically the same, we tried the Turkey and Rice (for sensitive dogs) and found they were worse, I did have one on FP, but because they are active dogs, there was not enough in it to keep the dog looking really well. One I know when she is starting a relapse as the nose goest crusty and dry and another, the eyes will start to discharge and lip flews look cracked, so I reassess the diet again.

Some of mine have been complicated adn sometimes I feel like tearing my hair out. Had a full body function test done on two, including the test for Hyperthyroidism, all came back within normal limits.

It can be like one step forward; two steps back, but once we find something that works, then I don't go fiddling , thinking that the dog is getting bored with the diet, because they don't.

My vet also explained to me that some proteins can remain in the dogs body for up to 4 weeks in the highly allergic dog, something that the dog is reacting to now, may very well have gone into the body weeks beforehand. the skin allergy dog, would devour himself, just an hour after eating red meat and wheat.

I will read up on the foods I feed mine and if there is a difference in the ingredients will post back.

Holly

Edited August 9, 2005 by holly

[holly]

Sorry Dan, I did not read properly your signature so I just used your nick.

Thank you Holly, I will try manipulate his food and post here if I have any luck.

Regards,

Andre.

Andre

if you go this way, can I please suggest, that you start off with basic foods and work your way up, eliminate what causes a reaction.

with my skin dog, I started him, with the guidance of my vet, on pure chicken mince (the first supplier I foudn was adding bread to the meat to thicken it, it took awhile to find a pure source, or you can even buy chicken pieces of human grade instead) and rice and a week later, tried another ingredient added to it, if he got a reaction then I would delete that forever from his diet, or if BARF is too complicated then I would recommend you buying a 15kg bag of Euk FP or Hills that is designed for allergic dogs (sorry dont' know the name of it) adn feed nothing else until the bag is finished, if you find positive results, then you can start to add low allergent foods one at a time. I find Omega Oils are great adn am feeding Deep Sea Salmon Oil, also gives them a lovely shiny coat.

Another thing I foudn gave my dog relief was a Condees Crystals bath, you need to wear gloves adn have an old tub, for it turns everything a lovely shade of brown, friend with severe eczema uses this when she has flare ups, so thought he would benefit too adn it was refreshing for my dog, only a 1/4 teaspoon in the water, the Maleseb was also excellent, allergy dogs need to be treated like babies keep it simple

be prepared for frustration.

Holly

[zayda_asher]

Some of mine have been complicated adn sometimes I feel like tearing my hair out. Had a full body function test done on two, including the test for Hyperthyroidism, all came back within normal limits.

I know with some breeds (such as Akitas) they say that the "normal level" in a hyperthiroid test is too low for the breed, that they actually need higher levels to be working properly... Ever seen anything like this in regards to GSDs?? Could be an issue...

My dogs flourish on raw diet, much easier to control what they are getting... but I think at least one of yours, Holly, did not do well on raw?

The Hills food for elimination diets is Ultra z/d ... a lot of dogs lose wright on it because the protients have been hydrolised to break them down so they don't cause reaction. To start an elimination diet the dog should be on a source of protein it has not had before so as to clear out the system.

Dan