GreatDanz Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 All I am asking for is a two month trial, if they don't like it, then they go back. Simple as that. But the thing is...if peoples dogs are doing beautifully on kibble or what ever....why should they change over? even for a two month trial? just because someone says they could be doing better? It's up to the individual and their dog as to what food works best, i feed mostly BARF...but the fact that others don't doesn't upset me...as long as the food they feed their dog is decent quality and their dogs are healthy what business is it of mine? well...actually...in general what business of is it of mine what others feed their dogs? That's why it's a challenge. I'm hoping that people will have the same experience that I have had with my pups, even the one that didn't have any medical issues. Much to my suprise, he went from looking great to looking phenomenal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 But heart doesn't count as offal, right, since it's muscle tissue? Heart is an odd one. you can have some really good debates about heart . Basically, from my point of view it is both an oran meat and a muscle - it is a 'special' muscle meat though as it is 'richer'. It is exceptional for cats for example as it is a high source of taurine. Think of them as an organ and muscle meat meal in one if you will :rolleyes: . But not a replacement for other organ meats nor necessarily a replacement for other muscle meats. Definitely feed them, but not something to go overboard on IMO - remember every prey animal only has one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 But telling people what to feed their dogs is tantamount to telling people waht to eat themselves...or what to wear etc. If people are happy with how things are going...being pushy will jsut put people back up. Much better to provide the info as just that and say..."this is the difference in my dogs, isn't that great? and i am so happy" and leave it at that...people will be interested and will ask questions. That's how i got onto BARF because it got me interested...rather then someone trying to push something on to me, telling me it would be better and that i should do it...that would just get my back up...but perhaps that's just me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arawnhaus Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 GD, HONEY YOU ARE PARANOID, MY ANIMALS ALSO GET FRESH MEAT AND FRESH VEG, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, BUT COMMON SENSE DOES! OBLIGATE CARNIVORE??? SORRY INCORRECT CURE FORWHAT AILS YOUR DOGS????? STILL NOT A LOGICAL TITLE IS IT??? SORRY GUYS TO INTERUPT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Well I'm up for giving it a go. One of my boys is not doing well on kibble/barf and I'm convinced it's the chemicals in the kibble rather than just barf, however, having him on straight barf for a few months didnt help either but there are extenuating circumstances and I've had some brilliant pm/email convos with dolers about it since this thread started. I'm desperate. I cant stand to see him scratching the blazes out of himself. Its very distressing - obviously for him more so than for us. Omega 3 capsules Espinay? - are you suggesting that might be better for my furkid than what Jed suggested? I break them open before giving them to him, right? I'm all ears, people. As for offal - what's the story with hydatid? I'm getting confused on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatDanz Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 I am not TELLING anyone to do anything, just challenging them to give it a try! Disclaimer: The next sentence is without "tone" or spite.... Frankly, you can't make all the people happy all the time. I thought the best way to go about this was to simply make my case. Guess I'm just not a 'beat around the bush' kind of person. On the positive side, you'll never have to wonder how I feel about something. I always thought mystery was overrated anyway. In regards to feeding heart, I LOVE the term 'special muscle meat', that's great!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatDanz Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 Raz, can you get canned fish easily? It's also a great source of Omega 3's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 But not a replacement for other organ meats nor necessarily a replacement for other muscle meats. Thanks Espinay. I'll keep on with the lamb bones and chicken carcasses as well, I promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Omega 3 capsules Espinay? - are you suggesting that might be better for my furkid than what Jed suggested? I break them open before giving them to him, right? I'm all ears, people.As for offal - what's the story with hydatid? I'm getting confused on this issue. I use fish oil caps. they need the EPA oils which is the ones you want (look on the side of the jar it should say). Not sure what a theraputic dose for a small dog would be... mine get 3 a day (180ml EPA each). I'd avoid flax oil Raz as your boy is having skin issues - a lot of dogs seem allergic to flax... so just a precaution. Mine eat the whole cap like a lolly I just chuck em in their food... As long as you're feeding human grade offal then it should be cleared of any nasties... you really only have to worry if you are getting game meat from someone... But then just make sure that your all wormer really is an all wormer and does Hydatids too.... Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 (edited) GD - tinned oily fish is a regular here and drives them insane - they love it. I still am of the mind that the caps will be more concentrated so it might help to throw them in on top? Zayda - I thought even human grade offal was suss if raw - correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just feeling my way here and playing devil's advocate to sort my own thinking processes out. If it helps to describe what this little bugger is going through - his skin gets really oily within days of a bath. That's when the scratching is at its most extreme and totally unlike the other guys, despite the fact that the organ damage was much more severe (from the envenomation) in the other male - cortisone was never needed for irritated skin in this particular male. Cortisone shots are now off the menu thanks to some brilliant emails by zayda on the fact that cortisone depletes the already fragile immune system :thumbsup:I really appreciate your advice , and I really need to start hunting even deeper for stuff on the net about longterm affects from Australian venomous snakes but the info just isnt out there. I really do feel this is at the crux of it. As for the flax oil - my instincts came into play with that one. It was suggested by a local naturopath but I feel it made him worse so stopped using it pretty quickly. He's a lovely little bloke and I'd like to see him thrive the way the others seem to be doing. GD - thanks for your lovely PMs. I look forward to seeing what happens with this. I was chatting up the local butchers this morning!!! Edited August 5, 2005 by raz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 GD - tinned oily fish is a regular here and drives them insane - they love it. I still am of the mind that the caps will be more concentrated so it might help to throw them in on top? Yeah, to have a theraputic dose for itchy skin you should be supplimenting with oil as well... they need a far higher dose than a "normal" dog to have that inflammatory calming effect.... Zayda - I thought even human grade offal was suss if raw - correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just feeling my way here and playing devil's advocate to sort my own thinking processes out. Hmmmm, I was told you would be ok with this, but maybe not... I suppose there is always a small risk... But as I said make sure that their all wormer covers hydatid and you should be safe.... and worm your self ocassionally if really worried I suppose Anyone else have any ideas?? If it helps to describe what this little bugger is going through - his skin gets really oily within days of a bath. He should be having medicated baths to help with this - has the vet talked about this with you? Malaseb, Pyohex or Pyoben depending on severity.... and often until things are sorted you will need to bath them more frequently than a "normal" dog - Zayda was twice a week for a while to contol the yeast infections on her skin... thanks to some brilliant emails by zayda Glad to help longterm affects from Australian venomous snakes but the info just isnt out there. Certainly is a tough one! Let us know what you find out... He's a lovely little bloke and I'd like to see him thrive the way the others seem to be doing. Yeah... its so hard to see them like this :rolleyes: Good luck... its so hard, but when you finally get there in the end its amazing! Hugs to both of ya! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Omega 3 capsules Espinay? - are you suggesting that might be better for my furkid than what Jed suggested? I break them open before giving them to him, right? I'm all ears, people. I personally prefer them as a way to provide an omega oil (essential fatty acid) supplement. As for ways to give them, it depends on your dog. Mine think they are treats and come running when they hear the bottle rattle. They all sit in front of me in anticipation and crunch on them as I pass them out . If I dont give them out this way, I throw them in on top of their dinner and again they get eaten up quick smart. If your dog wont eat them that way, you can pierce them and squeeze them in the food. I find it not as messy to do it the other way. As for offal - what's the story with hydatid? I'm getting confused on this issue. Hydatids aren't that hard to spot if you know what you are looking for. Meat is inpected for it as part of processing for human consumption. Freezing also kills them. I would not feed organ meats from uninspected sources if it is a concern to you. And if you are still worried, but want to feed organ meats, you can always worm regularly for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatDanz Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 "If it helps to describe what this little bugger is going through - his skin gets really oily within days of a bath. That's when the scratching is at its most extreme and totally unlike the other guys, despite the fact that the organ damage was much more severe (from the envenomation) in the other male - cortisone was never needed for irritated skin in this particular male." I know with people extremely dry skin wil cause your oil glands to work overtime trying to even things out again. The fish oil caps should help but I'd add in some fresh and canned fish too. You may want to cut down on the baths and give his skin a chance to work itself out. I don't understand your question on organs, maybe something's getting lost in the translation? Watch out for those butchers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 I know with people extremely dry skin wil cause your oil glands to work overtime trying to even things out again. The fish oil caps should help but I'd add in some fresh and canned fish too. You may want to cut down on the baths and give his skin a chance to work itself out. Yep, this is the same reason... It would "make sense" to leave their skin... and normal bathing wont help... Its the medicated baths they need to relieve the secondary infections they get from the oily skin and scratching... if you don't do this they will end up with hideous yeast or staph infection... But it should be done under supervision depending on the case and severerity... And fish will be good! A lot of dogs wont eat fresh, but canned is fine! I don't understand your question on organs, maybe something's getting lost in the translation? Probably! Hydatid is a type of tape worm... don't think you get it in some parts of the US.... Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Thanks guys. It's making more and more sense. Espinay - they'll eat anything I give them - greedy little pigs. I just worry capsules will pass through too quickly. You have to see it to believe it! His baths are medicated, Zayda. I'm just at the point where I'm losing faith. Does that make sense? Yep GD - I thought the same thing. I just cant get a handle on his skin. It's just driving us to despair to help the little guy. Three Cheers Guys. Thanks a bundle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Espinay - they'll eat anything I give them - greedy little pigs. I just worry capsules will pass through too quickly. You have to see it to believe it! Stick one of them in a little warm water and see how long it takes to 'melt'. Then imagine the same thing in the very acidic environment of the dogs stomach. I dont think you have anything to worry about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 His baths are medicated, Zayda. I'm just at the point where I'm losing faith. Does that make sense? Yep! totally Keep up the baths until you sort out what is going on... They are only treating the external symptoms.... so until you find out what is actually causing it you wont see an actual improvement... but he will feel the reliefe of not having a secondary infection on his skin as well as whatever is going on inside for him!!! This is where the Dermatologist comes in... until you find out what is the root cause all you can do is treat the symptoms... That's why I get so annoyed with vets who go for cortisone etc. first and don't suggest specialists etc. - they are relieving some symptoms only and not treating causes... Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Thanks guys I'll try anything at this point in time and keeping in mind snake time is coming up soon I'll do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Fiery Di - Raz - Poyvite is available from any good, big pet shop. Rudducks in Melbourne distribute it, and if the pet shops near you don't sell it, Rudducks may be able to tell you where to get it. Or, a shop which deals with Ruddocks may order it for you. It is a vitamin supplement, and can be fed with everything else, including the capsules. My experience is that it is excellent for dogs with skin problems. My experiences with it have been excellent, and even if it doesn't work, it will aid the dog's health! Raz - what sort of snake? I'll see if I can find out. The venom of different snakes has different effects. Also, Raz, it might not hurt to put some cider vinegar in the drinking water - if you aren't doing that already. And, when you wash him, put a dessertspoon of cider vinegar in a litre of water and pour it over him - getting it onto the skin - following the final rinse. If a litre isn't enough, use more water with a corresponding increase of cider vinegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Amhailte, I would be careful of feeding too much liver because it is so rich in vitamin A. Similar thing with fish oil supps, too much vitamin A and D is not good news. Definately good for health in moderation. Lots of things can cause skin problems in addition to lack of essential fatty acids. I'm reading an excellent book at the moment called 'natural farming' by Pat Coleby. It's not based on dogs, more general stock but it has sections on each specific vitamin and mineral in detail. I'm just getting into vitamins and minerals and this stuff is blowing my mind, the issue is such a bigger picture than I realised! Certain vitamins and minerals in excess or a deficiency can 'bind' or affect the uptake of other v's and m's. So supplementing with something may be useless if something else is defficient and everything ties in and affects everything else. Something else I would be concerned about is what you are providing your dogs (or pets in general) for drinking water. With all the crap that gets added to tap water it can do more harm than good. Many people now offer only distilled or filtered water. About the snake venom: In this book Vitamin C is mentioned for snake bites, probably with other stuff. Haven't finished yet so I can't give you all the info. Plus there is soooo much stuff in here it's definately going to take more than one read for it all to sink in! Excellent read so far though, fascinating stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now