Hip Dysplasia In Little Dog

[BittyMooPeeb]

My little shih-tzu foster Rupert had a vet check today and the vet thought his hips were sore and said this may indicate hip dysplasia. Other foster carers think that this is unlikely given his size (3kg) and age (12mnths). Diagnosis for hip dysplasia involves sedation and an x-ray (ie $$$) so I was wondering how likely it is that this is the cause of his hip pain. Do any DOLers know of v.small and young dogs developing this? ;)

The vet didn't offer an alternative cause of his hip pain - so if it's not hip dysplasia, what could it be???

He's due to go to his forever home on Thursday so I need to decide what to do .... :fetch:

ps in case it makes a difference, he was diagnosed with a luxated patella (sp) today too in just one rear leg.

[lilypily]

It certainly could be HD, while it's more common in larger breeds, the little tackers can still suffer from it. My Chi x Pom has it, and has since an early age.

You can try Sashas Blend, that has worked really well for my boy.

[Tahya]

I have to admit I don't know much about little dogs. But I do about young dogs getting Hip Dysplasia as a few years ago my old dog (who was only a pup at that stage) was found to have the hip problem. It was either hereditary or caused by an accident at an early age. Seeing as she never had an accident when she was young it must've been hereditary.

It is a terrible thing to have your pet found to have the problem. Misty had a wonderful 5 years but she did end up having to be put down because of her hips. Though she did live longer then the vets expected without much of a problem.

KJ

[ellz]

Anything which is born with hips is quite capable of suffering from HD. Size and weight can have some bearing but genetics and environment can play a huge part as well.

I think I'd be having the xray done for peace of mind AND bearing in mind the outcome of the Dodge v Rockey Tribunal Hearing, definite diagnosis would be essential to forestall any future problems.

[BittyMooPeeb]

AND bearing in mind the outcome of the Dodge v Rockey Tribunal Hearing, definite diagnosis would be essential to forestall any future problems.

I dont know anything about the Dodge v Rockey Tribunal Hearing - can someone point me to some info?? Is a dog owner suing a foster carer? ;)

[ellz]

If you do a search on this forum under Greyshaft, you will find more than you wish to read!

It isn't a dog owner suing a foster carer it is a "goods purchaser" suing an unsuspecting dog breeder for a genetic defect that she knew nothing about, had no idea was in her bloodlines and therefore didn't test for.

My point in this is that if you are aware of ANYTHING which might be affecting ANY dog which you sell or place in any home and do not disclose EVERYTHING (including, it appears, things you need a crystal ball to detect) to any prospective purchaser, they may take you to court and you might be up for big dollars for vets bills and compensation.

[Tahya]

It was a huge shock when Misty was found to have HD. She came from Champion Show Border Collies and we thought it was excellent. The owner even wanted to teach us how to show her and they took us to a show once. But when she got it, it was clear that there had to be something strange in the lines. All I can say now is that there is no sign of their lines anywhere!

Get the test done, it's always better to be safe then sorry.

KJ

[dogcop]

BMP when breeders breed they try their hardest to breed faults out of their stock I am led to think that in some cases this can take upto seven generations to do. With the likes of the GARDINER that was on tele promoting Xbred dogs all of the hard work can be undone in the first Xbreed. As a result I have seen all to many dogs with HD, Weak cruciate ligiments and a host of other problems we would normally think its a big dog problem but its also appearing in smaller dogs (I was going to say breed but Xbreds are not a breed). But the bottom line is if it has good temprement pure or cross does what u want etc BONUS !

also HD can be enviromental ie slippery floors etc but I would tend to think this would be more of a prob in large dogs.

[Dogsfevr]

The way i see it is your concerned that the dog has an health issue so unfortunately despite the $$$ the people intending to take this dog need to be made fully aware of any known health issues prior to taken the dog on.

Patellas could cause soreness but if it is me the money saved testing is nothing compared to things going wrong.

Have the new people been told about the patella prob??

[EddyAnne]

My little shih-tzu foster Rupert had a vet check today and the vet thought his hips were sore and said this may indicate hip dysplasia. Other foster carers think that this is unlikely given his size (3kg) and age (12mnths). Diagnosis for hip dysplasia involves sedation and an x-ray (ie $$$) so I was wondering how likely it is that this is the cause of his hip pain. Do any DOLers know of v.small and young dogs developing this? ;)

G'day, Eddy here.

I'll chip-in and add this to the topic.

If the veterinarian after examination suggested an x-ray was necessary then they may have their reasons for doing so. If you take the dog to a veterinary chiropractor then maybe they too might suggest an x-ray maybe needed. X-rays are a diagnostic tool that is commonly used to examine bones and joints for injuries or other problems, and where this maybe needed for proper examination and evaluation in some diagnosing circumstances.

As to Shih-Tzu and Hip Dysplasia, well I really do know what the situation is within the breed so anything I would say would be just my personal opinion and really a guess. The only thing that I can find on the internet is this American website which lists Hip Dysplasia Statistics for 137 breeds, and which mentions Shih-Tzu where 553 were x-ray tested and 19.2% had Hip Dysplasia to varying degrees, see rank 34 as to breeds at this address, and if you look on the site you'll find some patella stats:-

http://www.offa.org/hipstatbreed.html

As to health testing in Australia, well my opinion is that many breeders do NOT want to health test for various reasons, and where one reason maybe cost and another the need to subject dogs to x-rays, there are other reasons and one maybe that health test information can be used against breeders if particular health issues are known to be problems in their lines or in the breed in general, this was mentioned some years back, a section from the AVA/ANKC Wood reports:-

(e) Legal liability

Breeders should be aware that where hip dysplasia is known to be a problem in their breed, breeding from untested animals or those with scores higher than breed average could place them in a difficult legal position if they produce a puppy which develops serious hip dysplasia. Breeding from parents which both have low scores minimises the risk and provides a potential defence against litigation if a defective puppy is produced.

Due to the volume of Hip Dysplasia in dogs around the world, and to whoever finds a DNA test for Hip Dysplasia they certainly could make a lot of money from such a test, and due to this several DNA research facilities are currently trying to locate the genes involved so that they can develop a DNA screening test. As to legal liability if such a test is available, this was mentioned by the ANKC:-

Does ANKC’s DNA program alter the legal liability between breeder and puppy purchaser?

Legally any product sold must be suitable for the purpose for which it is purchased. Accordingly the courts recognise this in the sale of puppies, and if a puppy develops an hereditary disease then the breeder is held responsible. The only probable defence is to show all reasonable efforts have been made to avoid hereditary diseases. If there is a recognised test of an hereditary disease and a breeder does not use the test but sells a puppy which late develops that disease, then it is hard to see how the breeder has a legal defence. This is especially so where a DNA test is involved. Provided at least one parent is genetically clear for the disease, the breeder can ensure that the offspring will, not develop the disease, which eliminates the legal liability for that disease.

As to what can happen right now in regards to a rare hereditary disease, here is an interesting news article at this address and also I've added a link to the court case transcript at the very bottom:-

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/puppy-...1455936734.html

The Sydney Morning Herald

17 July 2005

Puppy was 'faulty goods'

By Daniel Dasey, consumer reporter

When is a puppy not a puppy? When it's a faulty product, the state's top consumer arbitrator has ruled.

In a case involving a sick border collie puppy that died from a rare genetic disease, the Consumer Tenancy and Trader Tribunal ruled the dog's breeder had the same obligation to replace and cover costs as any other retailer.

Dubbing the dog "goods", the tribunal found the illness constituted a "defect" that hindered the buyers' intended purpose.

The purchasers of the pup, Abbey, last week welcomed the decision, which also awarded them a refund of almost $3000.

But the case has ignited a storm of controversy among breeders.

The case was determined in June and the judgement published last week.

In evidence before the tribunal, Beecroft IT workers Graham and Belinda Dodge said they bought the $700 pup as a family pet from breeder Margaret Rockey in February 2004.

Within three days of the purchase the animal fell ill and, after a series of treatments at a local vet, it was transferred for treatment to a specialist centre.

The puppy was diagnosed with trapped neutrophil syndrome, a rare and incurable immune condition that leads to multiple infections.

Towards the end of February last year, Ms Rockey requested the pup be returned to her for care, but the Dodges declined. Abbey was put down on veterinary advice in March 2004. The Dodges sought a refund for the pup and a reimbursement of their veterinarian costs of $4680.

In her submission to the tribunal, Ms Rockey produced evidence that she was a breeder of good character and that the pup's condition had never been seen in NSW.

The tribunal ruled the Dodges were entitled to a refund and have some of their veterinary costs refunded.

"The puppy is properly described as goods for the purposes of the [sale of Goods Act 1923]," tribunal member Des Sheehan wrote in a judgement.

"Expert evidence confirms that the defect was present at the time of sale and resulted in the goods being rendered unusable."

Mr Sheehan ordered Ms Rockey to pay veterinarian costs of $2891 - representing the time until just before she asked the Dodges to return the puppy.

Ms Rockey said last week the ruling was not appropriate and that she had introduced contracts requiring buyers to return puppies in the event of health problems.

"I love the dogs. I breed and sell, and I want it all to go right," she said.

Royal NSW Canine Council president Keith Irwin said his group would examine the decision.

An online forum debating the case at http://www.dogzonline.com.au attracted several thousand hits and comments from breeders, many of whom said they should not be liable for rare illnesses.

Now click on this link address that I've added to have a read of the actual case transcript:-

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/nsw/NSWCTTT/2005/440.html

[BittyMooPeeb]

Have the new people been told about the patella prob??

The new owners dont know yet as I've only just found out today. Before I talk to them I want to decide whether I should hold on to Rupert for a bit longer and get the hip dysplasia diagnosis done. The vet said that he could just be sore from being poked around too, which is why I'm looking into how likely it is that he has this. The new owners will be told regardless- my question is whether it is likely enough and would effect his life to an extent that I'd pay for the test rather than leave it to the new owner, and whether he will therefore be delayed going to his new home - 3 very excited children will be sorely disappointed! ;)

As he is a rescue dog we dont know if he came from a registered breeder, or even if he is a pure-bred shih-tzu. This is what his original microchip details described him as, but if he came from a pet shop, who knows.

Rupert has survived the neglect of his first year of life, coming out of it with such a happy and positive outlook on life, so I want to make sure that his future is as good as possible and pain free. I'm just wary of paying for unnecessary tests. I spent $1400 on tests a couple of weeks ago for my cat and the results were .... inconclusive

[ellz]

As to what can happen right now in regards to a rare hereditary disease, here is an interesting news article at this address

This is exactly the same case as the one I mentioned.

The new owners will be told regardless- my question is whether it is likely enough and would effect his life to an extent that I'd pay for the test rather than leave it to the new owner

I would suggest you read the information supplied by myself and Eddy before you make any decisions. This reading may well influence your future actions with Rupert.

Edited July 25, 2005 by ellz

[BittyMooPeeb]

I watched the little guy carefully this morning and noticed that he (especially at the start of his walk) swings his back half from side to side to walk instead of lifting his legs. So it seems like something is indeed up with his hips, so it's off to the vet for Rupert

I had a look at the Greyshaft posts too. Very interesting and disheartening. I'm not sure it applies here though as the new owners will be told everything about Rupert's state of health, whether it's just a possibility or definite

What sort of life do dogs with hip dysplasia have????

[CavsRcute]

My 2 year old cavalier has just been diagnosed with HD. She is on Glucosamine supplements as well as fish oil capsules, or sardines. She does exercises prescibed by a canine physio, and she is also having acupuncture. The only way you can tell she has HD is when she is tired her back end will sway, but that is much less since the acupuncture.She has also had a a course of Cartophen, as she had a little bit of arthritis and trigger point therapy. She never limps or has difficulty running or jumping. or getting up from the ground.

They are not to have vigorous off leash activity, and must be kept lean.

Please PM, if you need any further info.

[dragondancer]

Another possibility (sadly) is Legge Calve Perthes. You should ask your vet about this too.

[Tracey*]

My 7 month old Miniature Poodle has HD on both sides. She's about 4kgs now. We had X-rays done when she was desexed at 6 months which clearly displays the problem. She's on Flexicose (which is glucosamine) and we have noticed slight improvements - though she was never crying and sitting in pain before, she is again willing to jump up and down when she's excited :rolleyes:

We have been told by the surgeons and specialists that she is too small for a hip replacements and because she seems 'ok' it most probably will be managable for a long time with exercise and care.

[poodlefan]

Crikey Tracey - HD in a mini poodle. That's not good. :rolleyes: Have you told her breeder? HD isn't something routinely tested for in minis.

I would want Rupert checked for Legg Perthes too - that's a problem in smaller breeds of dogs where the hip socket erodes. It is operable - they basically take the top off the socket.

Personally, I'd be seeking a vet who is more knowledgeable on such issues.. HD is by no means the only cause of hip soreness.

[ellz]

Personally, I'd be seeking a vet who is more knowledgeable on such issues.. HD is by no means the only cause of hip soreness.

True, but at least xrays are the start of some form of diagnosis.

[CavsRcute]

Tracey, just a quick hijack of the thread, where do you get you Flexicose?

[EddyAnne]

Crikey Tracey - HD in a mini poodle. That's not good. :rolleyes: Have you told her breeder? HD isn't something routinely tested for in minis.

G'day, Eddy here.

The Orthopaedic Foundation of America (OFA) and American Kennel Club (AKC) lists Standard Poodles, Miniature Poodles and Toy Poodles as the same breed but in different size groups. As to Poodles, the OFA lists 15,245 Hip Test Results on their website, it seems that some breeders in America are routinely testing and maybe this also in the Miniature and Toy size groups. Of the 15,245 tested 12.7% had Hip Dysplasia to varying degrees and as to what the figures are in Australia well I feel your guess might be just as good as my guess but then maybe not if you know what the Breed Score Average is in Australia and how many Poodles here have been tested and scored, anyway see the OFA figures at this address:-

http://www.offa.org/hipstatbreed.html