Herding

[Vickie]

What great reading this has been . It has given me alot to think about and work on. I did notice with Elvis on the weekend he would stop automatically when he had the sheep in a corner, or when he was attempting to bring them to me. It was just when he was out in the paddock that he just wanted to keep going.

I wouldn't worry about that too much Rhi...especially for his first time...in the paddock they are less sure of being able to cover/control the sheep, so they tend to move a bit faster, which of course makes the sheep move faster, and the person a bit more panicky etc.

It has taken me quite some time as a handler to learn to help the dog in a paddock, but I think we are getting there. When things look like getting out of control for me, I just get myself into a position where it's easy for her to fetch the sheep to me. It's kind of like a breather for both of us & a situation we're both very comfortable in.

Elvis sounds like he's going to be awesome! It'll be fun to hear his progress.

Edited July 26, 2005 by Vickie

[Vickie]

he did drop when he thought he had them where he wanted them which apparently is undesireable??? as coming back up suddenly can scare the sheep??

That's interesting Sparty, I've never heard anyone say that before, about coming up & scaring the sheep from a drop. Anyone heard/know anything about this?

The only situations I can think of where it would be undesirable for a dog to stop would be b/c either the dog is unsure or not confident to keep going or in the case of a dog with too much eye, for them to hold the sheep in a corner & get fixed on them, rather than holding them to the handler. I have seen this happen & it's very hard for this type of dog to disconnect & once they learn to do it, it feels so good for them that they just want to keep repeating it.

[MolassesLass]

I've not heard it mentioned as a problem, but I can imagine that if an enthusiastic dog jumps up from a drop while too close (as defined by the stock being used - individuals not type) they may be startled and move slightly.

A dog with good distance (and as they calm down) shouldn't have this problem I'd think.

[Sparty]

well we are very new and i was pretty nervous/confused so i may have heard it wrong

Bodie had a blast tho it is something i could enjoy too i think, I doubt I would ever get to the 3 sheep standard but we will give te ANKC type a good nudge

[chezzyr]

*lol* Cheryl

well you will have to come down to Tassie again to visit!!!!

Andrea, The Aussies, The Ponies & Joe

Yeah for sure! Can dogs go on the boat? OH might want to bring the Corvette LOL, so we can do the road trip thing also. Look forward to catching up :rolleyes:

[Kelpie-i]

in the case of a dog with too much eye, for them to hold the sheep in a corner & get fixed on them

Hmmm, sounds like my dog! :rolleyes:

it feels so good for them that they just want to keep repeating it.

Oh it feels good for her alright She looks almost like a statue!!

he did drop when he thought he had them where he wanted them which apparently is undesireable??? as coming back up suddenly can scare the sheep?? 

That's interesting Sparty, I've never heard anyone say that before, about coming up & scaring the sheep from a drop. Anyone heard/know anything about this?

I can't say I've heard of anything like this either, but as ML said, its probably a precaution incase the dog gets up too quickly and can startle the sheep.

I think it all comes down to experience....this is why working with the birds work so well as it teaches them to be a little softer and patient.

Has anybody had a go on cattle??

Our girl took off into the paddock where the cows were when she was 4 months old and thought she was doing a fantastic job rounding up the cows thank you very much, until she dropped to rest then turned around to find that 2 bulls were heading her way AND FAST! I've never seen her jump up so fast and run straight into my OH arms. That was her only encounter with cows at this stage. Perhaps one day!

[Guest cloverfdch]

It has taken me quite some time as a handler to learn to help the dog in a paddock, but I think we are getting there. When things look like getting out of control for me, I just get myself into a position where it's easy for her to fetch the sheep to me. It's kind of like a breather for both of us & a situation we're both very comfortable in.

Well done, i would love to come up and watch yourself and Trim work, it would be a good learning experience. Mums actualy thinking about going up to Sydney in the next couple of months so i might come up aswell.

You will all be kept up to date on how Elvis (& Bodie) get on in the coming months. My dream would be to get to 3 sheep standard, but i dont know if it would be with Elvis. His breeder came by today to see photos from the weekend she was very impressed and was going home to tell "Farmer Mick" all about his little Elvis :rolleyes:.

Has anybody had a go on cattle??

I would love to try my Rotti/ Cattle Dog x on Cattle, my sister inlaw to be has cows but they are only used to Labradors and not being herded.

Kelpie-i, i could just picture your Pup running from the bulls .

[Vickie]

Well done, i would love to come up and watch yourself and Trim work, it would be a good learning experience. Mums actualy thinking about going up to Sydney in the next couple of months so i might come up aswell.

That would be great fun. You gotta bring Elvis though!

I see you changed your avatar...you REALLY are hooked :rolleyes:

[Sparty]

how rude the next instinct test (after 7th Aug) is not until after christmas!!!! herding trials but not intinct :rolleyes:

[MolassesLass]

There are a few comps up in Qld before then.... :rolleyes:

[Sparty]

hmm doubt im gonna get there in the 2 hour limit trip time!!!

well we can get ready for the next stage anyway :rolleyes:

i dont want to push him too hard, he is doing tracking and flyball and starting obedience trials as well this year!!! i have just completed a 2 minute group stay in the kitchen!!!

[fidelis Border Collies]

vICKI WROTE

Since I started I've found there are at least 2 very different trains of thought on a stop.

Some seem to get a stop & a call off before they allow the dog to move much at all on sheep. They do it using leads so that the dog must stop when asked. It's very reliable but can be very mechanical too.

Sorry i haven't read the whole thread no time but thought i would add my bit

I have stop issueswith my dogs because they don't want to stop, but putting a stop and stay there coomand on your dog you are inhibiting its ability to work on its own and if you lose this you will end up with a robot.

With my half working half show dog Abigail she doesn't like to stop she likes to be onto the sheep all the time. As she is slowly down she is using more and more eye and then she creeps up on the sheep. I used to contuninally say "STOP" "STOP" "STOP" "STOP" To the point it never meant anything.

Now I say "STOP" when i want a pause and I say "Stop THERE" When i want her to STOP

It does help having the two different commands

Tracey

Edited July 27, 2005 by fidelis Border Collies

[Guest cloverfdch]

I see you changed your avatar...you REALLY are hooked

Yep .

I will have to check out air fares for dogs, unless we drive up which would not be too bad.

Tracey that is something to think about two commands, is that allowed in trials?

[MolassesLass]

Tracey that is something to think about two commands, is that allowed in trials?

There's nothing in the rules about commands used at all. The only thing even mentioned is that the judge must determine if too many commands are given and the dog is performing obedience rather than herding (but that would have to be CONSTANT commands.

[fidelis Border Collies]

yES AS Liana said points are deduct for over cammanding the dog. Also the judge has to determine if the dog is being disobedience as you lose points for that too.

My partner whistles all his commands and I remember a judge last year telling dave he will get points deducted for excessive whistling VBG Had to laugh as how would the judge know if the dog was being over commanded. or what the whistles meant.

See when i say stop is doesn't mean stop as in a sit, I never ask my dogs to sit, stand or lay down i want a stop that is all and when I say stop I really means pause. if I say "stop there" its a longer stop but i still expect the dog to move if the sheep were to take off. A working dog is no good if it sits or lays there waiting for another command while the sheep are tearing down the paddock.

As a judge it is my job to decide if the stop command or wait command is what we think it is or is the dog not taking any notice of the handler at all.

Tracey