Sense Of Smell

[Staranais]

Tilly's thread on tracking just got me thinking.

Do you generally have to teach a dog to use his nose, or are most dogs just born "nasally talented"?

The reason I'm asking is that my dog's nasal abilities are terrible. If I drop a piece of smelly luncheon on the kitchen floor, turn the lights down so he can't immediately see it, then let him into the room he will take at least 20 seconds to find it. Sometimes he even steps on it before he realises it's there!

My uncle's beagle, on the other hand, will walk directly over to where the food is whenever she enters a room - even if it's hidden out of sight.

Is having a poor sense of smell normal for certain breeds of dog? Or is my dog just weird?

[helen]

I think it is a matter of whether or not the dog's has been bred to use the nose, even if they do use their nose it may be air scenting rather than scenting the ground.

At the pet expo I got a brilliant guide from Advance dog food about tracking and teaching the dog to put his nose on the ground and smell using food games, basically doing what you are doing. Every now and then I will get a handful of food and scatter it around so the dogs have to use their nose to find it.

It is interesting to watch Bella with a treat ball, she will push it around a bit and then track back looking for any food that has fallen out.

Brittanys can tend to air scent. My dog Tilly never put her nose to the ground much, I thought she didn't have a very good sense of smell. when I taught her to scent the ground for food I soon discovered she has probably got the best nose of my dogs but didn't ground scent until she was taught.

[Staranais]

Every now and then I will get a handful of food and scatter it around so the dogs have to use their nose to find it.

Yeah, I do that too - but he tends to leave half the food there, even if it's food he really loves, I guess he just can't find it?

I guess I'm just confused since I've always been told that all dogs have a great sense of smell. If I can smell the yummy smelly luncheon, why can't Monsta?

[helen]

have your tried something nice and smelly like cabana? - try and make it easy first, maybe on the kitchen floor or something

Edited July 20, 2005 by helen

[Staranais]

This luncheon was pretty high - even I could smell it. I could try something even smellier though, perhaps blue cheese or something.

So do you reckon he just needs to be taught to use his nose, instead of having a bad sense of smell?

[Vickie]

I was wondering the same thing. I always thought one of mine had a bad sense of smell. I play a game where I take them outside, then go & hide under a blanket somewhere in the house. Zeus will be frantic to find me, but can't seem to use his nose to do it, Noah otoh finds me straight away. Noah can also smell his favourite dogs from quite a distance. I see his nose go up & his tail start to wag & sure enough, they're around the next corner.

Then about 6 mths ago, a friend of mine who visits often, took up "a habit". Zeus, the dog with no nose, is obsessed with her handbag if there's funny green stuff in it. He smells it as soon as she walks in the door.

So all my 3 have a great sense of smell. Trim can smell a tennis ball from anywhere, Noah can smell his dog mates and Zeus...well he's a sniffer dog in training. They are all moderate on food.

[Erny]

Dogs' ability to scent definately varies from breed to breed.

For example, in an experiment conducted by Scott & Fuller where a mouse was put in a one acre field:-

1. Beagles only took a minute to find it;

2. Fox terriers took fifteen minutes; and

3. Soctties were never successful - one found it only because it stepped on the mouse and it squeaked!

I guess this example/experiment would relate on the dogs' sighting abilities too, though.

In my (limited) experience in scent work, I've found that dogs can be 'taught' to use their noses more than perhaps they would do naturally, but that IMO isn't necessarily going to increase their scenting abilities, just increase how well they use what is available to them. My girl - a R.Ridgeback, when left to her own resources, relies on sight first, then air scenting - that relates to her genetic background. However I have worked her in ground tracking but had to teach her how. Not being a competitor in the field of tracking, though, I'm not fussed on HOW she tracks/scents, but simply that she does.

Edited July 20, 2005 by Erny

[EddyAnne]

If I drop a piece of smelly luncheon on the kitchen floor, turn the lights down so he can't immediately see it, then let him into the room he will take at least 20 seconds to find it. Sometimes he even steps on it before he realises it's there!

My uncle's beagle, on the other hand, will walk directly over to where the food is whenever she enters a room - even if it's hidden out of sight.

G'day, Eddy here.

Some breeds of dogs certainly do have far better scenting abilities, say a blood hound probably might have far better scenting abilities than a beagle, and a beagle probably might have far better scenting abilities than a cavalier, and even within a breed there can be individual differences in scenting ability. But then I feel there is much more to tracking than just the dog's scenting abilities.

Consider that maybe the beagle has taught themselves to "cast and find" the food within a kitchen that's overloaded with food scents. Maybe your doggie just needs some practice in casting and finding in kitchens, and maybe might learn quicker by first practicing in another room well away from the kitchen maybe even outside in the yard, then later after some practice try it again in the kitchen.

Here is something to think of for the future. Over the years I've seen many dogs in tracking who certainly knew how to track really well as I saw them pass tracking tests, yet I've seen quite a few of them later on where they didn't even start the track and spent so much time fiddling at the start that the judge had no option but to fail them at the start, and then there are some who did start but lost it within the first hundred meters or at the first turn. So consider does the dog really wants to use their scenting abilities to track at that particular time for they just may not really want to for one reason or another.

[Tilly]

I brought a wonderful book called FUN NOSEWORK FOR DOGS (2nd Edition) from DogWise Book Store. It covers scent discrimination and other fun things. At about US$16 - it isn't overly expensive.

[Staranais]

Care to tell us how you go with it, Tilly? It sounds interesting.

Eddyanne: Maybe your doggie just needs some practice in casting and finding in kitchens, and maybe might learn quicker by first practicing in another room well away from the kitchen maybe even outside in the yard, then later after some practice try it again in the kitchen.

Hmmm. Just taken the dog to the lounge, made him wait outside the room, and hid some of his smelly luncheon clicker treats on the paisley mattress (even I found it hard to see them on there!) When I invited him in and said "find it!" he took ages to find them. But I was watching closely, and he didn't seem to really be systematically SNIFFING for them, just running round excitedly looking. So I guess when he gets excited, he just doesn't think to use his nose to find things?

So perhaps he has to be taught to sniff? I thought dogs came knowing how to use their noses.

Does anyone know any nose-work games that would be suitable for absolute beginners like us?

[EddyAnne]

he didn't seem to really be systematically SNIFFING for them, just running round excitedly looking. So I guess when he gets excited, he just doesn't think to use his nose to find things?

G'day, Eddy here.

Sounds like some dogs when they start Tracking and UD Scent Discrimination, and where the dogs just need some more time and practice so that they can interpret the scent information that spreading around so that they can learn how to use that to zero in, be it a scent track or scented article or scented food treat in the lounge room or backyard.

Maybe you can use something a bit simpler as an initial stage, say in a room or backyard lay a line of treats about half a pace apart, then take your dog to the first one point to it and say "dinner or find or whatever" and you just might have to point to the second or more as well. Then after a few goes you may not have to point anymore, and at this time then do this again but in the dark, and then repeat this in some other locations also in the dark, then let us know what happened.

[Staranais]

Thanks Eddyanne, I'll give it a go.

[Kavik]

My thought is that it is about the motivation for the dog to use its nose. Beagles, being bred to use their nose, have more inbuilt motivation to use it. And dogs which are food focussed are more likely to use it to find food. But sight hounds being bred to use sight, are more likely to use sight first.

I have done some scent work with Zoe, it is great fun! I have done scent detection, so I first taught her the active dig response I wanted. I used food underneath an upside down recycling crate - she could see the food but not get to it. So she would scratch. And then once I got this response I paired the food with the scent.

Zoe is quite good at the scent work, certainly very motivated! However, she has a very good memory for previous hiding places and will sometimes give a hopeful scratch at a place where the scent was previously hidden. I need to do more work to fix that problem.

The problem I have is that she is very food motivated, and I know that if I ever had to do a test or anything with her, she would get distracted by food on the ground (probably eat it ).

I have also done a bit of fun scent discrimination at the park. Throw a stick a couple of times, then throw it into a pile of sticks and see if she can pick out the right one. She can find the right one! I haven't done any formal training for this one.

[Erny]

However, she has a very good memory for previous hiding places and will sometimes give a hopeful scratch at a place where the scent was previously hidden. I need to do more work to fix that problem.

Kavik .... is this really a problem? Or is it that your dog is indicating correctly as the scent of the search item is still there?

One of the difficulties in training in scent detection is ensuring that the areas you use and the non-target scent containers you use, are not contaminated by earlier training sessions.

This can upset training and confuse the dog when WE assume the dog is giving a false indication, but when, in actuallity, the dog is trying to tell us he knows his job and should actually receive his reward.

Edited July 23, 2005 by Erny

[Staranais]

Woohoo, a breakthrough!

I got some smelly sausage, rubbed it over a small part of the sofa cover so it was really obvious where the smell was, and then hid the sausage cube under the smelly part of the cover so he couldn't actually see it. And once I directed him to the area the cube was in and said "find it!", he snuffled round till he found it!

I'm hoping that after a while of doing this, once he truly understands that "find it" means "use your nose!", I can gradually make the task harder and harder.

Now I have a sofa that smells of sausage, and a dog that has possibly had a nasal breakthrough? ;)

[Kavik]

Erny - that is certainly a possibility. One I always have to be careful of and it is tricky because scenting is something we cannot do - which is why it is so exciting to train.

When I first started her training with boxes though, she at one point would alert to all the boxes, even when they had never contained scent!

I fixed that by ditching the boxes altogether and hiding the scent in nooks and crannies in the garage instead.

[Erny]

When I first started her training with boxes though, she at one point would alert to all the boxes, even when they had never contained scent!

I fixed that by ditching the boxes altogether and hiding the scent in nooks and crannies in the garage instead.

In my (inexperienced) opinion, that would be because your dog hadn't (at that stage) recognised what stimulus it was that it should indicate at to ultimately receive its reward.

My girl did the same. It was difficult not to crack up at her very proud sit at a non-target box .... with a big grin on her face!

I worked on this problem on the basis that it was trainer error, and went back in her training by reducing the box numbers (even right down to only two ... one target odour and one non-target). Rightly or wrongly, if she sat at a non-target, I stood "poker faced", not moving, until she made the decision herself to keep looking. Naturally, she'd go to the other (target) box and sit. She got her reward.

She began getting it right 100% of the time, even when I changed the boxes to another position. THEN I gradually started increasing the non-target boxes again.

I also did the same as you, Kavik, by changing the boxes to some other type of container to get the idea that "it's about the box" out of her mind.

Admittedly, my girl is really not a good candidate for scent work and, given all the factors against us, I had to invent some rather radical/unusual methods in the training to overcome some of the obstacles we encountered along the way. In all, it was a good learning experience for me!

We passed our 'test' and I now throw in the occasional "scent work" practice as a game. She quite enjoys it! It's a good one for when it's too wet/cold to go out for a walk!

Edited July 24, 2005 by Erny

[Kavik]

Yes it was irritatingly funny when I would tell her to 'find' and she would eagerly go and scratch at one non-target box after another . . . I even ended up calling Steve Austin for help! She was just so sure it was the boxes she was supposed to scratch, probably because she had not yet figured out the scent she was to find. Moving from boxes to other things was the best thing to do.

Zoe is not an ideal candidate for scent work either. We unfortunately did not pass the test - since starting the course I had moved out of home and gotten 3 jobs, as well as being in Sydney and needing to go to Melbourne for the test. And Zoe being what she is, I didn't know if she would work in a strange environment after travel. Would love the chance to finish the course and get the pass though!

It is a fun training exercise.

[Erny]

Admittedly, my girl is really not a good candidate for scent work and, given all the factors against us, I had to invent some rather radical/unusual methods in the training to overcome some of the obstacles we encountered along the way.

;) I promised my girl I'd buy her a "day bed" (huge soft cushiony sort of bed) if she passed. Given she is a lover of all things soft and warm that she can sleep on, perhaps this incentive was what got us over the line.

Hope you have the opportunity to make and pass the test, Kavik. In the meantime, continue to have fun with it!

ETA: She got her day bed as promised!!!!

Edited July 25, 2005 by Erny

[Sardog]

Maybe I have missed the thread but what test did you have to pass?

Sardog