My Barf Diet

[Missymoo]

ok, probably silly questains...

I started feeding a BARF diet but then started worrying about all the vitamins and minerals etc that my dog was missing or I was giving in wrong quantities...

what additives are a must for the diet??

[poodlefan]

Missymoo:

what additives are a must for the diet??

Realistically? None. :rolleyes: IF you feed a balance of food over time and vary the meats and veggies, you could afford not to use any. An Omega oil is a 'nice to have'.

Billinghurst himself is very relaxed about additives but does recommend eggs. No offence to our American brethren but is mainly in the USA that many additives are used, in Oz people are more relaxed.

I use missing link because its a general conditioner. I've also used kelp, brewers yeast, wheat and barley grass powders before but I don't try to get a balance in every meal.

[poodlefan]

Miranda:

Has anyone ever had any problems feeding frames? I know I'm being stupid, but I just can't seem to get past all those little bones. Also does anyone feed lamb necks? I often look at them too, but haven't given them to my dogs yet.

Miranda ALL my big dog owning friends who feed raw use chicken frames as the basis of their dogs' diets. They are a bit big for my guys but very economical for the big dogs. No problems reported with them - apart from happy crunching sounds. :cool:

My vet has recommended that I change from feeding chicken wings to drumsticks as they are a better work out for my guy's teeth... always a challenge to keep the canines clean in the littlies. :rolleyes:

I feed lamb necks - but only a quarter of one for each dog. They are quite fatty but good for keeping weight on the the bones are a good workout.

Edited July 14, 2005 by poodlefan

[espinay2]

Poolefan is right. None are a real must. The only one I add - usually a few times a week when I think of it - is fish oil capsules. Anything else is because I am dealing with a specific issue (eg glucosamine for an arthritic older dog)

Let me give you an example of how I might feed over a 3 week period. Note that the things I can get cheaper I feed more often, interspersed with dearer and harder to get items when I find them and my budget allows (I like looking for them when they are marked down or on special). Note also that none of this is set in stone. I stock the freezer, and what come sout is what is fed. If I forget to thaw, that is a great night for a canned fish meal <vbg>.

Day 1: Chicken frames

Day 2: Chicken Frames

Day 3: Chicken frames and a chunk of lambs fry (liver)

Day 4: Beef Brisket bones

Day 5: Kangaroo Mince with leftover veggies and any other healthy leftovers

Day 6: Lamb Flaps

Day 7: Lamb Flaps and a couple of lambs kidneys each

Day 8: Canned Mackeral and egg. Maybe with a few leftovers as well.

Day 9: Rabbit pieces or whole rabbit

Day 10 Chicken Frames

Day 11: Turkey Necks and some chicken livers

Day 12: Chicken Frames

Day 13: Beef Brisket Bones

Day 14: Kangaroo Mince with leftover veggies and an egg or two

Day 15: Pork Hocks

Day 16: Whole very meaty Lamb Necks

Day 17: Whole Very Meaty Lamb Necks

Day 18: Chicken Frames

Day 18: Chicken Frames and a Lambs heart

Day 19: Chicken Frames

Day 20: Kangaroo Tail

Day 21: Whole raw sardines

and so on...

[poodlefan]

Hey Espinay - I know a toy poodle that wants to move to your house.. can she have the same size meals as your guys? :rolleyes:

I do two days RMBs, one day veggie mix. They get the odd tin of mackeral (eeuuu) and 4 legs if they're travelling.

[aranyoz]

Am really enjoying reading this thread as I have had my dogs on a mainly raw diet for nearly 3 years now.

I have to agree mine don't get the veggies every day either but have raised whippets & now my two new Vizsla pups on chiken frames (carcuses) or chicken backs that are quite filling along with lamb, beef & venison bones as well and the occassional fish meal.

Kerry

[hopenfox]

My dogs have never had problems with chicken frames (I think all those little, sharp looking bones are quite soft and bendy). Where can I find Turkey necks?...I've never seen them.

espinay2...Do your dogs have food bowls or do you just give meals straight to their mouths?

[Missymoo]

Thats great info poodlefan and espinay2, Thanks..Im a stress head when it comes to giving my gals the best..I think I will go back to BARF...what about if my bitch is pregnant? I may wait untill I know for sure and keep her on Advance? What would anyone suggest for a pregnant and lactating bitch? The same or anything added..I did read Billinghurst's books a while ago now, but like to hear from people here and thier diets and experiences.

I do agree that my girls were healthier and stools 'cleaner' and less smelly too on the diet!

[espinay2]

Where can I find Turkey necks?

Woolworths. Meat section. Sometimes with the dog stuff and sometimes with the chicken.

espinay2...Do your dogs have food bowls or do you just give meals straight to their mouths?

If I am feeding sloppy stuff (eg roo mince) they get it in a bowl. Most things they get on a towel. Most of my dogs are fed in crates.

What would anyone suggest for a pregnant and lactating bitch?

Basically the same with not much real change except for amounts. Bitches often have preferences for different things at different times though (eg closer to birth a lot of bitches like more organ meats). I suggest joining the rawbreder list (which I run ) at yahoogroups: www.yahoogroups.com/groups/rawbreeder

[Miranda]

Thanks for the info guys, great topic

[melbell]

Thanks for all the help, I think im ready to start the new diet this weekend! Gee my dog is lucky!

So just to clarify it is okay to feed meat only meals and then vegetables every couple of days? Do people feed the vegetables seperatley?

I plan to supplement with kelp and fish oil, do you just whack them into the blender too?

Sorry for all the questions..i dont want to make him sick!

[Guest LittlePixie]

So... I could feed them both 3% of their body weight in RMBs for two days... then on the third give them 3% of their body weight in vegetables, a bit of fruit and offal mixed together?

(9 month old terrier cross who is about to start foundation agility, and 5 year old rotty x retriever who goes for short walks)

I know I'm just repeating what's been asked time and time again but I want to make REALLY REALLY sure I'm not going to kill my dogs through malnutrition... or give Brody horrible deformities because he's still young...

Edited July 15, 2005 by LittlePixie

[kateshep]

*deleted*

Edited January 17, 2006 by kateshep

[ElectraWoman]

@kateshep: Your diet looks okay to me on paper...although is the total amount 60% RMB and 40% others? You didn't specify the amounts you were actually feeding.

By the way, I also feed cat food to my dog once a week

--

Some very interesting diets here; I'm learning quite a bit. I'm starting to cut down on the vegetables as well.

I've started feeding my dog a beef soup bone in the morning, and a chicken frame at night along with mince or fish and either egg/yoguart/milk/vegetables. Is feeding a soup bone every day okay? I've found my dog's teeth are getting a great clean with them, but I would hate to give him constipation!

[ima labluva]

Little Pixie, I was wondering the exact same thing.

(about the frozen vegies)

Maybe ok as the base and then add some fresh stuff too. looking forward to an answer too

Soory missed the other 2 pages. i too am going to feed BARF. This info is priceless, better than books. I work for a chicken processing place so will be asking there for the leftovers to buy. Thanks everyone.

Edited July 16, 2005 by ima labluva

[melbell]

Ive woken up this morning to find my dog has yet another nasty skin irritation between his front arm and his body, really red and sore looking so another visit to the vets this afternoon...he also has dandruff!

I really hope this new diet clears up his skin, i feel like such a faliure as when we got him he was fine and he had been living at the pound for a couple of weeks and before that he was found as a stray

Off to the butcher today to stock up on loads of meat! Fingers crossed.

We were getting the VIP food for free as OH's stepdad works there, but i figure maybe i will not tell him Toby doesnt eat it and take it to the pound once a week.

[Steve]

These diets all look pretty good to me . Biggest deal of all is to be careful not to get bogged down into being strict on what you feed so that you dont get the variety. The more foods you feed the less chance you have of needing suppliments .

Frozen vegies are blanched before they are frozen which breaks down the cell wall a bit but the reason fruits and vegies come in and out of season is because they have the nutrients in them which are more needed by the body during that season. So buying the cheapest fruit and vegies because they are in season is obviusly cheaper but also better for them.

All you need to remember is that you keep to mainly raw meaty bones and add as much variety as you can get your hands on justthe same way as you eat yourself or you feed your kids.

Canned cat food is 70 percent water and has anti freeze in it . Any omega 3 or 6 in it is destroyed by the heating and canning process and so too is the vitamins. They also use a cheaper solder which is not passed for human consupmtion an it leaches into the food. So it has very little benefit to your dog at all.

keep in mind .... You can juice your fruit and vegies and you drink the juice and give the dog the pulp. You can buy whole fish cook the thing for yourself and give the dog the head . You can buy sardines and share the contents with your dog . Makes you more healthy at the same time as your dog and brings your dog food bill way down . All things except onion and chocolate in moderation and everyone gets everything they need . Then start looking at the food in the back of the fridge thats on the turn or out of date , fat out of the frying pan and grill, crusts of the vegimite sandwiches ,apple peels,vegie peels and if you get really stuck a peanut butter sandwich is just as good as any commercial dog food for a quick feed .

If you're worried the dog isnt getting all it needs then stop for a minute and ask yourself if you worry like this over your own dietray needs and if that doesnt work chuck in a child multi vitamin every now and then.

If your dog has skin problems you can add some apple cider vinegar to his water or food and add a good cupful or so to his bath water. This makes his skin taste bad to any parasites and gives him some extra vitamins and minerals and on the skin it makes sure that there's no bacteria or fungi and keeps the ph level where it should be.

Remember also that sometimes when a dog has skin issues before he goes on the diet they sometimes appear worse for a short time while his system cleans out all of the toxins .

[melbell]

If you're worried the dog isnt getting all it needs then stop for a minute and ask yourself if you worry like this over your own dietray needs and if that doesnt work chuck in a child multi vitamin every now and then.

That makes alot of sense, I mean how often do we sit down and think to ourselves "gee I wonder if I am getting all the B group vitamins" well for me its never.

Apple cider vinegar hey, I will be trying that one...to be honest if someone told me that if by streaking down the road naked I could clear up his problems I would do it

[Steve]

Once you get a diagnosis from the vet and know exactly what you're dealing with there are all kinds of things we can recommend but ANYTHING on the skin is a result of whats going on inside so addressing the skin problem without the immune system is a bandaid only effect and can very often make it worse . Adding chemicals to try to clear it up compromises the immune system even more and may take away the rash but make something else thats going on inside that you can see as easily at more risk.

Very often you see this kind of stuff about 4 to 8 weeks after you have a vaccination done or introduce monthly [ or worse] yearly heartworm meds.

[espinay2]

Remember too that if the cause of the skin irritation is environmental, food isn't going to have an instant or total effect in helping it.

I did have a dog who was badly affected by grass and pollen allergies. She used to get raw red paws, legs and stomach at certain times of the year. A switch to a raw diet did not change this in the short term, but I noticed over the long term (I think I really started to notice after 3 or 4 years) that her problems became less and less to the point where she rarely ever reacted any more.

If you do think the problems are environmental, it may pay to look around and see if anything may be causing it. Where does she sleep for example? Could it be what you wash her bed in or what you use on the floor? Could itbe something you use on the grass or the grass itself? What about a plant int he garden?

If the problem is food related, it will only have an effect if the food the dog is allergic to is removed. Often the problem is removed when you remove grains, preservatives and the other rubbish that is in commercial foodsand start feeding a simple raw diet of healthy whole foods, but some dogs (although they are well in the minority) are allergic to other things (eg beef, chicken, eggs or whatever) and may need their diet slightly modified to suit their specific needs.

Remember, a raw diet is not a miracle cure-all for all the ills of the world. It can not help in the short term any problem not directly related to the diet. I do firmly believe however it is the healthiest and most effective way to feed the canine (and feline!) pals in our care.