Coolibah Coolies Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 Taken this mornig my daughter is directly in front of him but as I got her to come closer he sort of calmed down do have a short video but is not great light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 (edited) My first impression of this still picture is "predatory aggression". I won't swear to it on the basis that I can't see the whole picture in motion. But I'm certain enough to suggest it is by no means a "play bow", in any sense. Reading Karen Overall's writings in "Clinical Behaviour Medicine for Small Animals", it is suggested that not all dogs that prey on small animals will prey on infants, but the limited research done on this subject suggests that dogs that behavie in such a manner to small infants have previously exhibited pedatory behaviours towards small animals. Question: Does this dog exhibit predatory behaviour towards small animals? I need to come back to this with more thought, but I'm interrupted by the committed to do some "work work" and earn some money to pay for all the dog food I just purchased! My thoughts drifted over the possibility of territorial aggression and I wondered if your dog would display this behaviour when unconfined (not tied up, as the picture suggests - but I'm not suggesting there be no method of control!), not crated and not at home. However, this was JUST a drifting thought as you express, I think, it's only your youngest daughter that the dog aggresses at, in which case this would, in my mind, rule out this as the form of aggression being exhibited. ETA: It puzzles me that your dog barks/growls while exhibiting this behaviour, as in the predatory aggression I'm familiar with, the dog exhibits a quiet, stalking behaviour. I will return for a further look at the photo - is the dog exhibiting this stance as a result of the tie-out restraint? This might be giving me the wrong idea ... again, this can be the problem with not seeing "real life" action. Except the other thing that makes me think it's predatory aggression (other than the stance) is that it appears from the photo that there is no pilo-erect (hackles). Again, I need to give this more thought. One way or the other, this dog is dangerous - particularly around your daughter and I don't blame her one bit for being terrified. I hope the dog is 100% securely contained ... Edited to ask - what do you mean by "sort of calmed down"? Please describe. Edited June 17, 2005 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 (edited) Ermmm...NOT smiling!!!! He does not look at all friendly, or comfortable,and you are right to be concerned. edited to add link. http://www.toledohumanesociety.com/graphic...dy_language.jpg He looks as if he has fearful aggression and,as such is also unpredictable. Edited June 17, 2005 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Coolibah Koolies..my brother has just seen that pic,and suggested that this dog is not trustworthy, and shouldn't be rehomed. This was hiss immediate reaction, without even knowing of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy's mum Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I'd guess a mixture of fear and desire to overocme fear. Liked the first dobie picture - dobie on the right obviously has GSOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Yep, definitely no play bowing there - it looks serious to me from that picture. Nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 GSOH. I need a longer version. please explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 GSOH Good Sense of Humour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Time out from work - returned (briefly) to the photo ... Is that pilo-erect that I see on the dog's neck? Can anyone out there confirm whether they think so? I didn't spot it on my initial look at the photo, but the more I look at it .... If the hackles are up on the dog's neck and are restricted to that zone, it indicates a confident dog. This message is amplified by the position of the dog's ears - up and pushed forward. Is this dog's tail docked? Or is it lowered/tucked? I'm also wondering about the mouth - did it start "long" and is it in the process of drawing forward to become short? I don't see alot of teeth - mainly (but not only) the front canines, but this could just be the nature of the photograph taken. Quite often, the approach of an aggressive dog that's made the decision to attack, will be stealthy and may include the crouch position as shown in the photo. Ear position changes are also usually noted and when a dog lowers its neck to enable the dog to "deliver a blow with more force". If this dog does not exhibit any preditory aggression behaviour elsewhere (eg. to birds & other small animals), then I my initial thoughts may be seen to be off the track (as they still may be - I can only hypothesise on a picture and written description given). I'd still like to hear back from coolibah as to the questions I posed in my earlier post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Looks like a lot of mixed signals to me. Thought it was piloerection too Erny, just on the whithers.. What you definately need is one on one professional advice. Can you be more specific on your location, someone may be able to recommend a behaviourist in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 (edited) Coolibah - with reference to our recent "PM's" - looking forward to hearing back from you with some video footage of your dog's behaviour and urging you NOT to consider the behaviour as being anywhere remotely related to the dog being confused about how to play. I'm still trying to find the thread you said you read called "Can I Play" - for some reason my searches have come up "nada". I get the impression that from that thread you're thinking your dog's behaviour relates to a confusion about being able to play properly. This has to be so NOT THE CASE in your case and I'm sincerely worried that you might take dangerous risks if you approach this dog with that type of theory. Perhaps other doler's can tell me where this thread is. Edited June 20, 2005 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I think the thread being refered to is "protecting the pack, or just plain aggressive" 'Can I play' is a reference to an article posted by Holly in that thread. Could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I think the thread being refered to is "protecting the pack, or just plain aggressive"'Can I play' is a reference to an article posted by Holly in that thread. Could be wrong. Thanks Haven .... I'll go searching. You and your super memory !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Reading Karen Overall's writings in "Clinical Behaviour Medicine for Small Animals", it is suggested that not all dogs that prey on small animals will prey on infants, but the limited research done on this subject suggests that dogs that behavie in such a manner to small infants have previously exhibited pedatory behaviours towards small animals. You have my interest. Karen Overall, have you met her?. She is a classic, so is her husband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 You and your super memory !!! Sure, but I still don't remember what I did with that bloody credit slip and today I left my wallet at the dog food place, I was just lucky that a fellow trainer was there and returned it to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 You have my interest. Karen Overall, have you met her?. She is a classic, so is her husband. Unfortunately, Lablover, I haven't had the honour of meeting Karen Overall, but I have some of her writings and place alot of faith and store in them - I too am a fan - her ideas are always well and factually backed, and they make sense. You? Met her? If so, lucky you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 You and your super memory !!! Sure, but I still don't remember what I did with that bloody credit slip and today I left my wallet at the dog food place, I was just lucky that a fellow trainer was there and returned it to me ;) ohps .... not funny :p . Lucky, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolibah Coolies Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Sorry guys I hadnt got back to you, dont worry I am taking no risks with my daughter, really think he is a big spoilt boy who thinks by intimidating people he will get his own way and needs to learn that it dont work that way, :p went to work him on the sheep but they have shot through we were discussing changing them over so I imagine they will be replaced shortly the others were a bit too tame. As soon as they come back I will record him with sheep and with out and in the mean time he is being told no everytime he acts like an idiot, who knows it might sink in Thanks so much for all your help and I will send the cds as soon as possible ;) ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Thank goodness, Ruth .... I admit - I was beginning to worry. Glad all are ok. Look forward to the video clips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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