Couple Of Questions

[Tonto]

I have an 9 week old labradoodle puppy. I have only had her for just over one week but she already knows the 'sit' command. Although we have mastered this, we are still having quite a few house training accidents. Although she does relieve herself when I take her outside, she often poops in the house, especcially in the morning. I am worried that it has become a habit as it is always in my bedroom that it happens! I take her out, she does her business and then she comes in and plays in the bedroom while we get dressed etc and that is when she poos! This happens even when she poos outside first.

I have never really scolded her as I am trying to do all her training via positive reinforcement but I am wondering if I should start letting her know that doing that in the bedroom in the morning is wrong - if so, how do I do this?

Also - as we have mastered the 'sit' command, what should come next? I am assuming it is 'stay'. If so, any good tips?

Thanks

[MolassesLass]

Although she does relieve herself when I take her outside, she often poops in the house, especcially in the morning. I am worried that it has become a habit as it is always in my bedroom that it happens! I take her out, she does her business and then she comes in and plays in the bedroom while we get dressed etc and that is when she poos! This happens even when she poos outside first.

Do you wait until your lab cross pees and poops EVERY morning before you bring her back in?

If she does not go, what do you do?

How often do you take her out for breaks?

Is it only in the morning that she forgets?

How long is it between her pooping outside and then pooping again inside?

How regular is your routine in the morning?

[Staranais]

I can't help with the potty training question, but my suggestion for the next thing to teach your dog is the recall.

In my opinion there's nothing more important for your dog's safety than having a reliable recall.

[Vickie]

I can't help with the potty training question, but my suggestion for the next thing to teach your dog is the recall.

In my opinion there's nothing more important for your dog's safety than having a reliable recall.

I agree. Recall is very important and should definately be started asap.

I would also question whether she has really "mastered" sit, in a week. It's good to start training something but to master it, often takes while a while. For example mastering sit would include, voice command only, sitting while you have your back to her, sitting while you are walking, sitting while another dog is playing ball around her etc, I'm sure you get the drift.

I think 9 weeks is really too young to teach stay. I would work at getting a relationship with her 1st. If you do a search on puppy games/tricks, you should find a heap of old threads on here.

Vickie

[pgm]

I take her out, she does her business and then she comes in and plays in the bedroom while we get dressed etc and that is when she poos! This happens even when she poos outside first.

As soon as you have taken her out to relieve herself, put her back into the crate whilst you are dressing. If you don't have a crate get one, or otherwise make sure you are watching her closely so that you can step in the moment she starts and take her outside.

Do not allow your dog to poop or relieve itself inside the house full stop. If you can't manage to watch her whilst you are dressing then leave the dog outside until you are dressed. It really isn't a big problem - you just have to manage it better.

[MonElite]

I can't help with the potty training question, but my suggestion for the next thing to teach your dog is the recall.

In my opinion there's nothing more important for your dog's safety than having a reliable recall.

I totally agree with the sentence about nothing more important in dogs volcabulary than the word COME, but you need a stay to teach that....

or another person, tether to be able to walk off from the dog.

As to toilet training, observe your poodle cross for the signs of attempting to go to the toilet. They sniff around, go in a circle couple of times, tahn squat. When she goes to squat, pick up say arh arh, run outside placeon the grass and if it takes 3.5 hour for her to do it than wait 3.5 hours to praise for doing it in the right spot.

[Vickie]

I totally agree with the sentence about nothing more important in dogs volcabulary than the word COME, but you need a stay to teach that....

or another person, tether to be able to walk off from the dog.

I'm confused by this. Why do you need a stay to teach a recall? and why do you need more than one person to teach either? I have never used a stay or another person to teach a recall.

Vickie

[MonElite]

how do you teach come if a dog follows you?

surly you will need to have some distance between your dog and you at some stage.

So IMHO eithere a stay or another person holding a dog would be usefull.

Im here to learn, maybe I dont know something....

Edited June 14, 2005 by myszka

[Vickie]

Just a different method of training I guess,

how do you teach come if a dog follows you?

At 9 weeks, most pups will follow you. I use this to associate the command with a behaviour that I can predict.

surly you will need to have some distance between your dog and you at some stage.

I would say the proofing comes in a little later, for mine usually around 6 mths, when they suddenly realise that they don't have to and that there are other things they would like to get involved in. In the period between 9 weeks & 6 months, they naturally get more adventurous over that time, so again, I have found the distance comes naturally.

Edited June 14, 2005 by vpzn

[MonElite]

Just a different method of training I guess,

tell me more

[Vickie]

LOL, sorry, I was trying to separate quotes...I'm a bit slow...but proud that I finally worked out how to do that

[MonElite]

I would say the proofing comes in a little later, for mine usually around 6 mths, when they suddenly realise that they don't have to and that there are other things they would like to get involved in.

So are you saing that the following puppy will learn the word by the time its 6 months and than you proof?

In my OB club we teach at first - very bigginers to do a U turn recall but one class up from this and they have to do it from the end of the lead, hence they need some kind of a stay for that.

This is puppy classes, although ocassionally we get adults in there as well.

[Kavik]

I never teach recall from a stay either. Besides needing a good stay first, it is not good for practicing real life recalls. I first teach a come-fore, then when the dog understands that, I practice recalling from a free position, and call the dog when it is distracted (by a smell, other dog, person, cat etc). Running in the opposite direction to the way the dog is going usually gets a good fast recall as they love to chase you.

This is more useful in a real life situation when you are likely to call your dog, as it is likely to be distracted and not in a sit stay. When in a sit stay the dog wants to come with you, when it is at the park this may not be the case.

[Vickie]

So are you saing that the following puppy will learn the word by the time its 6 months and than you proof?

In my OB club we teach at first - very bigginers to do a U turn recall but one class up from this and they have to do it from the end of the lead, hence they need some kind of a stay for that.

This is puppy classes, although ocassionally we get adults in there as well.

Well as I said, I guess it's just a different method of training. I have never taken mine to obedience classes and probably will never do so.

I trained my last dog by just taking her for short walks where there were no real distractions off lead & just let her follow me, like they used to do in the olden days . And yes, I believe this is how she learnt the word. I used a motivator toy from day one and it became a very high value reward, very quickly.

I think the age for proofing depends on the dog and it's drives/motivations and certainly some proofing would probably start before 6 mths, depending on the dog.

The most interesting thing I have done in the last 6 mths was train a recall off sheep. I was a little nervous about this as I really couldn't imagine that it would be an easy task, given that there is nothing in the world my dog would rather do. I am still surprised at just how easy it was but conscious of how many factors already existed for it to work. "Come" on sheep really means, you'll probably get to go back on, but sometimes we need a break. Either way, it is a command, not a request and is always complied with very enthusiastically.

Sometimes I think we make stuff too complicated too early.

[MonElite]

I did all that as well, of course!

However I also thin the dog might misunderstand come for chas me.

Might fail to perform if the smells are more interesting.

And as I have converted to K9s teachings LOL I think that learning is to be performed away from distractions at first, hence if there is nothing more interesting than me the dog will come to me regardless of my command. Not to say that I wouldnt reward this, of course I would, but is the dog learning the meaning of the word?

Also I assume that you do all this on a long line correct?

Im not negating any methods, I jsut think that stay is an essential part of a come at some stage, sooner or later.

[Kavik]

Yes I do it on a long line.

The only reason I eventually train a recall from a stay is because I need it to trial in obedience. A recall from a sit, once the dog has mastered the recall, is not as much of a challenge - it is the stay component that is more difficult there! For people not planning on trialling, it is more important that your dog will come to you when distracted by another dog, or a person, or a cat or bird than from a sit stay.

I think (remembering I have not gone to the seminar yet LOL!) that if the dog is coming to you and following you around without distractions, that it is time to add distractions and see how you go.

[haven]

No, definately no punishment for toileting ever for puppies. They won't understand that the place is the issue, but could link it to the act itself or you, causing all sorts of problems including but not limited to hiding from you to toilet and eating their own faeces.

It has been suggested in other threads that if your pup toilets in the house you should roll up a newspaper and use it to hit yourself over the nose and I agree

It's hard when they are pups, I know I've just had one, but as someone else said it's a management issue for you, not your pup.

Clean the areas where your pup has toileted in the house with an enzymatic cleaner to break down the scent mollecules so it no longer says 'toilet here' to your dogs nose.

Take your pup out as often as possible especially after sleeping, playing, eating and drinking and wait until your pup goes.

Dogs do develop a substrate preference that is difficult to change when they get older so you really want to avoid accidents inside to ensure it's not your carpet!

Good luck

[Tonto]

Wow, thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I don't have a crate, I was hoping to be able to do it without one. She cries the minute she is left alone so in the morning I take her out, she does her business straight away but then goes again within 20 mins. If I leave her outside then we have the crying! This used to happen at night as well but she stopped that last week and is fine to sleep alone now.

Am I perhaps trying to rush this too much considering her age? i'm not sure how much, or how fast all this should be happening. This is the first time I have owned such a young pup!

[Tonto]

By the way - in response to some questions - I do this routine every morning without fail. It is very rare that she doesn't actually do all her business at this time while we are outside and if she doesn't, I usually take her for a quick stroll around the block to try and encourage her.

I try to take her out hourly but am not always there so I leave newspaper down for the rest of the time. She is good about using the newspaper while I am out or during the night.

It is only in the mornings that she relieves herself in other parts of the house. This morning was a typical disaster!

I know if I get the crate she will cry horribly - she hates to be trapped anywhere - even managed to dig her way out of my back yard yesterday and was picked up by a stranger.

Perhaps some formal training is required - I live in inner sydney so any suggestions would be welcome!

Thanks

Tonto

[espinay2]

You can usually get a dog used to the crate by helping to make it a fun place for them to be. think of it as a comphy den rather than as a cage. Perhaps you can pop her in there with a bone, or a stuffed kong toy to keep her busy in the morning.

I would suggest taking her along to classes if you can. It will be great for socialisation and I am sure you will pick up many tips to help make your life together a good partnership.

On the recall issue that was being discussed. I prefer to think of it as a position rather than an action. The position for the command 'come' is the dog (preferably sitting) in front of the handler. I often like to backchain by teaching the dog the position first. Then you begin to increase the distance. What the dog is learning is that wherever it is, when the command is given it goes to that position.

I too have never really taught recall from a stay first and rarely with another handler holding the dog. I will do that occasionally in class with puppies just for the sake of expediency, but for practicing at home, it is generally not required. It is unlikely that the pup will follow close by the owner ALL the time. Even when in the living room or backyard (which are the best places to start teaching as there are less distractions), the pup may wander a meter or two away allowing an owner to call the pup to them. A huge distance is definitely not required to teach the command and can be counter productive with a young pup that tires quickly. Remember you are teaching the position and not the running. Distance can be built up over time. If there is more than one person in the household, 'pass the puppy' is a good game where the people sit in a circle, triangle, or opposite each other depending on number s and call the pup from one person to the anther - rewarding when they come when called (but not rewarding for anticipation!).