Training Advise

[Sonny]

Hi All

Well my little boy is at Kindy School. He is doing very well except for lead work. Lead work is very hard cos he gets very tired quickly so I never really take him out on a short lead to practice this, we always drive him to a park or the beach so he can play and when he gets tired I can just put him in the car.

This is obviously going to make it hard to pass Kindy

He needs a lot of mental stimulation and we were hoping to get some of this by progressing through his grades but this now seems to be not exactly what he needs or will enjoy.

My question is, is it still possible for him to be involved in some beginner courses for agility or flyball or something of that nature? I'm not expecting him to be quick or an expert but I think he would enjoy taking it at his own speed and he would love the mental stimulation.

I'm a little concerned that if I ask these questions at class I will get laughed at as the group can appear very focused on perfection.

He is very attentive and focused on me at training, it's just walking from A-B doesn't interest him (we went to the park today, it took 50mins to walk around the footy oval cos we had to stop and sit down to watch the kids playing footy, he was very focused on them but sat very still like someone watching the TV).

My main objectives are to make it fun for both of us, for him to be stimulated and a little socialisation would be good.

ANY suggestions/comments are welcome

Thanks in advance

[Guest Tess32]

How old is he?

I presume he is young and so cannot do much jumping with agility.

Why don't you start simply building on the skills you will need to do agility or flyball?

With very small jumps you could introduce a command for "over" and you could get him focusing on a tennis ball for flyball. Focus on attention off lead in your backyard and build up on these types of things.

Good luck

Nat

[espinay2]

I wouldnt start jumping yet, but you can do all sorts of things with teaching him to go though a tunnel (even just a large cardboard box open at both ends will do), walk along a low ramp (plank on ground or on low bricks), walking through a ladder on the ground to teach him where his feet are, on different surfaces and the like. Also try teaching him tricks and games like 'find it'. That is GREAT mental stimulation.

Your main thing to teach him will be to focus and pay attention to you - doesnt matter whether the lead is attached or not. Make it fun and rewarding for him. Just for short periods to begin with but increasing in time as he gets older. I would actually teach him to 'heel' without the lead if you can - just a few steps at a time in the beginning. Stops you relying on the lead to keep him there too (of course there are some environments where he will have to be on lead but this you can practice in your hallway at home, in the yard or at the park during play sessions. make it part of the play to walk beside you and get a reward then play and romp some more)

As for the on lead walking, teaching him to walk/sniff around/watch what is going on on a loose lead without pulling is the main thing to concentrate on at this age rather than on any precision heel work.

JMHO

[Em & Taco]

Hi!

Don't know much on aglity or anything but you could try and find a buddy with a dog that your dog gets along with and go for walk together. May find it more interesting with a buddy and more inclined to continue.

[Muttlover]

I wouldn't starrt jumping with him until he is 18 months old. But start with tunnels, weavers, etc.

Have you tried food to keep his interest? That has worked with other dogs I've seen, but it hasn't worked with my 2.

Have you thought about a correction collar (learn how to use it properly first though). My Jack Russell x would pull until he coughed and nothing seemed to work until the correction collar. Now he is beginning to heal off lead, and when he is on lead I have no need to use the correction collar cause he has learnt what each command means.

I have heard walking really really slowly with the dog at your side (and not letting the lead out even if he is pulling at first) can work by claming your dog, although I have never used this method. But everythings worth a think about. This would take a couple of weeks, but I have heard it works. If the dog lunges ahead, bring him/her back to your side.

Paitence is a virtue. :rolleyes:

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Muttlover, can I ask what sort of correction collar you use?

[Muttlover]

I use a normal correction collar (chain version) that I bought from the obedience club I go to. They measured him for the correct length and I learned to use it properly. I don't use this collar when we go for walks and definately not for agility, I only use it for obedience training on Sundays and when we practice heeling. Although the past few months I've been able to practice him on his soft (normal) collar.

[Steve K9Pro]

ML:

I use a normal correction collar (chain version)

K9: knowing from your previous posts that you wont use anything that you feel is inhumane, have you researched the damage that this type of collar can can through even correct use?

Its interesting that you feel strongly about not using an electronic collar which in proven tests causes zero physical harm, but are happy using a tool that research shows can cause physical harm...

[Muttlover]

I did some research, and kept a close eye on my dogs health in the early stages.

I wouldn't use a correction chain on any of my future dogs (including the puppy I have now) as I have found other methods that work for her.

My obedience club uses them with very few reports of injury (I haven't heard any to date, but that is not to say there hasn't been any), and I trust them. I've also found no problems with my using one on my JR x. I wouldn't use one on my pug x, as she doesn't respond to coller tugging methods etc. It depends on the dog, but I have no real problem with people using them at the club.

And I still don't agree with anti-bark collars. That is not to say that I have a problem with people who use them, it is just personal choice.

[Steve K9Pro]

ML:

I did some research, and kept a close eye on my dogs health in the early stages.

K9: I cant see where I said the damage occurs in the early stages. Can you also tell us how you kept a close eye on the inside of your dogs neck?

What did research indicate?

ML:

My obedience club uses them with very few reports of injury (I haven't heard any to date, but that is not to say there hasn't been any), and I trust them.

K9: are they examining the insides of the dogs neck?

ML:

I wouldn't use one on my pug x, as she doesn't respond to coller tugging methods etc.

K9: Im not familiar with collar tugging method, can you elaborate on what you do (or did)

Do you for example, walk down the street, the dog may start to pull & you give a little tug on the collar via the leash, the dog slows down & you proceed perhaps?

ML:

And I still don't agree with anti-bark collars.

K9: & I still havent asked you to or use one, we need to be clear on that fact.

[Vickie]

Hi All

My question is, is it still possible for him to be involved in some beginner courses for agility or flyball or something of that nature? I'm not expecting him to be quick or an expert but I think he would enjoy taking it at his own speed and he would love the mental stimulation.

Sonny,

how old & what breed is your dog?

There is no reason you cannot start foundation agility right now. As others have said you do not want to do any jumping or weaving with a pup as the chances are that his growth plates have not yet closed, depending on his age. Growth plates close at different ages for different breeds. The good news is that foundation agility is/should not really about the equipment, it should be about building skills to get your dog from one obstacle to another and building a relationship of teamwork with them and ensuring that they have fun. I firmly believe that formal obed

is not necessary to begin agility.

Where are you? I'm sure some of us could recommend some good foundation agility classes depending on your location.

Vickie

[pgm]

have you researched the damage that this type of collar can can through even correct use?

K9, can I ask which research you are referring to?

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: there are various comparisons that have been documented from time to time on the use of check chains, prongs, halters flat collars.

I have also come accross many dogs that have scar tissue issues that had been diagnosed as damage caused by check chain use.

[pgm]

K9, the only study that I know is the mythical prong/check chain study done in Germany where 50 dogs on prong collars and 50 dogs on check chains where compared.

The study does not exist. It is the Loch Ness monster of the internet. Many reported sightings no actual sightings. If you can provide me with a citation: name of author, when and where it was published I would be most interested.

To save you time I can report that I have spent many hours searching the internet for such a citation and found nothing except quite a few other people asking the same question.

I don't know of any research. But I would interested if anyone could provide me with some.

[Steve K9Pro]

P:

The study does not exist. It is the Loch Ness monster of the internet. Many reported sightings no actual sightings. If you can provide me with a citation: name of author, when and where it was published I would be most interested.

K9: I have the study saved, but the link is no longer active, the information is on a saved page if you would like it.

If you send me an email, I will send you what I have. It doesnt contain autopsy reports but talks of them.

I have come accross many dogs though myself with injuries from check chains, as I said. To me, that goes in line with the study.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: quick update: the info was compiled by Janice Frasche' , some of it came from a Anne Marie Silverton seminar.

The email address on the report is : - [email protected]

There are several other autopsy reports on military dogs if you look deep enough, several conducted in the UK, when they were trying to ban correction collars from military training.

[espinay2]

If anyone wants to contact Janice directly, I can probably pass a message on to her and get her to contact you directly.

[Sonny]

He is an Australian Bulldog nearly 6 months old (my ticker isn't working properly).

He has 3 wrinkles across his nose so he don't have breathing issues as with British Bulldogs and he is a lot more active (when it's something interesting) with slightly longer legs.

As I said I'm not expecting him to be great at things it is just to keep him simulated.

Thinking of starting some sniffing games this weekend - placing treats under cups and getting him to found them.

He is already fascinated with tennis balls and will happily chase one or even sit and chew it. He is still very uncoordinated with catching though.

Thinking of also getting a Frisbee.

I live in Karratha so we only have one dog-training group here, I think I'll talk to them on Tuesday after class and see what they say.

[espinay2]

On a hunch I checked the link for the article as I know there have been some site changes recently. If you go to www.lgd.org click on the library link and look under 'behaviour' you will find the article by Janice entitled "Prong collars and some information about their use" which refers to the study. She however, does not reference it. (edited to state that she does not directly reference it to a primary source - she does refer to the anne marie silverton seminar which is where she sources the information)

(On a personal note, while I have experience using a prong collar and have seen them used by others - mostly while I was in the US - I am not a fan of them)

Edited May 27, 2005 by espinay2

[pgm]

K9, the link you provided sent me to the same mythical study that I seen many times. Even if this study did exist (it doesn't) it says nothing about how these collars were used, let alone whether they were use correctly.

Now please don't get me wrong, I have no objections to prong collars. In fact I believe that they would be a better, safer, more effective tool for the average person than a check chain. A dog is far more likely to self-correct on a prong collar than a check chain. I believe everything you have said regarding prong collars requiring less force for correction than check chains. I think they should be freely available to the public, I think the problems of pulling on lead would be greatly reduced if the average person had access to what is a perfectly safe tool when used by any normal person.

I am simply questioning the notion that check chains when used correctly cause injury. My dog has not pulled or lunged on the check chain since the second day of training. That was over a year ago. I don't see how the check chain can be harming my dog if he is not recieving any corrections.

I mean he had it on today when I took him to run an errand through the city at lunchtime. Not one correction, not even a tug on the lead. Oh - but he wasn't on lead - never left my side.