Vegetarian Diet

[George my Doggie]

Hello all.

I've been thinking of putting my dog on a vegetarian diet and have read that, in order to provide complete nutrition it must be carefully formulated to provide all the nutrients, vitamins and minerals that a dog needs.

If anyone could give me some advice, suggestions for books to read and websites on the topic would be much appreciated.

I am also wondering about what not to feed my dog and how to prepare food for him.

I'm not interested in being flamed and insulted, so if you don't like it don't post.

My thanks in advance

~GMD

Edited May 22, 2005 by George my Doggie

[shel]

Hey GMD,

I'm a vegetarian, slowly edging toward vegan, but I've decided not to put my dogs on the same diet - mostly because it's too much work! (la..zy!)

It does make me frustrated that you are still supporting the meat industry by having to buy dog foods tho.... hmmm...

This article is good:

http://www.vnv.org.au/Articles/Dogs&Cats.htm

and there's some good links at the end

Cheers,

:)shel

Edited May 22, 2005 by shel

[Miranda]

I am also a vegetarian, but I wouldn't recommend that anyone feed a dog a vegetarian diet. The dog is first and foremost a carnivore and has a digestive tract perfectly made for processing meat and bone. Of course dogs have become more omnivorous since mixing with man, but they are still primarily meat eaters, their gastro-intestinal tract just isn't designed to deal with large amounts of cereal and vegetable matter.

Here are some of the ways that they are adapted for processing flesh and bones, but not vegetable matter a) Their front teeth are designed to rip and tear meat from bones, the rear molars are perfect for gnawing bones and gristle b) they have no enzymes in their saliva to pre-digest cereal matter c) their stomach acid is 10 times more powerful than the acid in a human stomach, powerful enough to dissolve bone d) their intestines are far shorter than ours and food passes through much more quickly thus enabling them to eat rotten meat with no ill effect e) the shorter digestive tract also makes their system very inefficient at processing vegetable protein f) they have a very efficient vomit reflex so that anything unsuitable in the stomach can be quickly rejected.

Dogs in the wild derive goodness from the pre-digested matter in the stomachs of their victims, if you feed raw vegetables to a dog they will come out of the other end exactly the same way as they went in as they just can't break down the cellulose. Some BARF feeders put the vegetables through a processor to help the dog to digest them, but you will have great difficulty getting most dogs to eat this without the addition of meat to make it palatable.

As a vegetarian human I can tell you that it takes a lot of planning to ensure that your diet is complete and that you are getting enough protein etc. Doing this for a dog would be just about impossible. You will have to feed heaps of food (there is much less protein in vegetables and it's not as easily utilised, especially by a dog) and you will also have HUGE amounts of dog poo to pick up and dispose of and I can assure you a great deal of it will be on the soft side.

I know that there will probably be people on DOL who do feed their dogs a vegetarian diet and I don't mean to disparage you at all, it's just that I like to feed a dog as nature intended.

Would you feed your horses rump steak? I think not.

This is just my opinion George my Doggie, certainly not meant to flame or insult you at all. Hope it gives you 'food for thought' LOL.

[George my Doggie]

Thanks Shel I'm going vegan too ^.^ much harder than going from omnivorism to vegitarianism.

Miranda- But dogs aren't true carnivores, they are semi-carnivores and oportunists. The diet of a maned wolf cosists of over 50% plant matter ( and that isn't from the stomach contents of it's prey either).

It is very possible to feed a dog a vegitarian diet, and I am willing to put in the hard yards to make sure that my dog still gets all the nutrients he needs.

As for the problem of protein, there is wonderful thing called tofu, and there are plenty of other non-animal, high protein foods available.

Anyway, thanks for your opinion.

[espinay2]

A Maned Wolf is actually a very different species to to a Grey Wolf or a Domestic Dog. Both the Grey Wolf and Domestic Dog are Canis Lupus (dogs are Canis Lupus Familiaris). The Maned Wolf is Chrysocyon Brachyurus. They are definitely not a good example at all of what a domestic dog should eat.

Dogs, while opportunistic, are definitely carnivores. Some reading I suggest would be anything relating to the diet of the Dingo, books by David Mech on containing information on the diet of the Wolf and also the articles on www.rawmeatybones.com

Just to clear up the 'they eat the stomach contants of their prey' thing: at a seminar with David Mech last year on 'The Diet and Nutrition of the Wolf from Birth to Death' last year, Dr Mech stated that wolves do not in fact eatthe stomach contents but shake them out before consuming the actual stomach. they may get some, but not all. This mirrors my own obervations of wolves in the US where on several occasions after consumption of a carcass I noted the contents of the stomach left on the ground.

I would also recommend this article which has some excellent information on the issues surrounding feeding a vegetarian diet: http://b-naturals.com/Aug2003.php

I know quite a few vegetarians who have elected to feed a raw diet to their dogs. They do this for a number of reasons. Firstly they recognise that they have elected to keep a carnivore as a pet and as such have a responsibility and duty of care to feed it the diet it was naturally intended to eat. Secondly, they recognise the health benefits in feeding a diet as close to that nature intended as possible rather than feeding heavily process foods. Many of them have not found it totally easy going to begin with and have had to over come their own squeamishness. I have heard a few say however, that they get comfort from blessing the animal their dog is eating and thanking it for being part of the great circle or words to that effect. They also seek out food that is raised and killed as humanely as possible - free range, grass fed, organic etc - so they know where the food they use have come from.

[George my Doggie]

-sigh-

Edited May 22, 2005 by George my Doggie

[cdenyer]

-sigh-

No flaming from me, but... why do you wish your dog to eat a vegetarian diet?

[haven]

I wouldn't flame you, you're entiltled to your own opinions. I too, am curious as to why you would choose to put your dog on a vegetarian diet. They are not strictly carnivores but diet should consist of roughly 70% meat. True, you can keep a dog healthy on a vegetarian diet if you're careful. The only book I know of where it is mentioned is Ian Billinghurst's 'give your dog a bone' but I don't think it gives heaps of info. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Good luck, whatever you decide. I know you love your dog and would only act in his best interests.

[George my Doggie]

Why I want to feed a vegetarian diet:

1. Health- lower risk of obesity, cancer and other health problems caused by low-grade meat, grains, preservatives etc found in many commercial pet foods.

2. Ethics- This paragraph sums it up nicely "For many people who are vegetarian for ethical reasons or because they are concerned about animal suffering, every time they feed meat to their pet they go through a dilemma. On one hand they care about their pet and want to do the right thing by it, but on the other hand they do not like having other animals slaughtered for it’s food, and they also don’t like supporting the meat industry." (from http://www.vnv.org.au/Articles/Dogs&Cats.htm)

EDIT: To spell vegetarian right.

Edited May 22, 2005 by George my Doggie

[haven]

Amen to not feeding commercial pet food! I personally wouldn't feed my dogs on a vege diet, but I have heard that it can be done. If you can do it without sacrificing your dogs health and they still love the word "dinnertime" I guess there is really nothing wrong with it.

[ElectraWoman]

Hmm, I'm finding this an intriguing thread.

However, a slight question:

1. Health- lower risk of obesity, cancer and other health problems caused by low-grade meat, grains, preservatives etc found in many commercial pet foods.

That's partially true, but what if you fed a BARF diet? Would feeding a vegetarian diet be better than BARF?

Anyways, the only advice I have is to buy a blender. You'll need to make sure the vegetables are completely mashed, to break down the cellulose.

[George my Doggie]

Thank you haven, I agree completely

Electrawoman- I already have a blender, and thank you ;) I will answer your question tomorrow, I have a feeling it will be a lengthy response and I'm already staying up later than I intended.

Goodnight all, I must get sleep

Edited May 22, 2005 by George my Doggie

[Mel774]

Wolves = wolves, dogs = dogs. There's a difference.

I would be doing a lot of research into what health risks you would be putting your dog through by switching it to a vegetarian diet - perhaps seek out the advise of a holistic vet???

[cavNrott]

.

Edited March 14, 2009 by cavNrott

[persephone]

Why I want to feed a vegetarian diet:

1. Health- lower risk of obesity, cancer and other health problems caused by low-grade meat, grains, preservatives etc found in many commercial pet foods.

2. Ethics- This paragraph sums it up nicely "For many people who are vegetarian for ethical reasons or because they are concerned about animal suffering, every time they feed meat to their pet they go through a dilemma. On one hand they care about their pet and want to do the right thing by it, but on the other hand they do not like having other animals slaughtered for it’s food, and they also don’t like supporting the meat industry." (from http://www.vnv.org.au/Articles/Dogs&Cats.htm)

EDIT: To spell vegetarian right.

..Not exactly flaming..it's YOUR dog,

but why buy a carnivore if you are not wiling to feed it the food it is "made" to eat?

I agree that much commercial food isn't wonderful,that people do well on vegetarian food....but dogs have ENORMOUS canine teeth...no third stomach vor special bacteria for digesting cellulose...are very well adapted to meat eating

I hope you and your dog find a suitable diet....

Happy researching ;)

[poodlefan]

I was a vegetarian for many years but decided that my pets should eat as natural a diet as possible. For that reason, my dogs eat meat, but prepared by me according to BARF principles.

In the book, Give A Dog A Bone, Dr Ian Billinghurst discusses the difficulties of dogs obtaining protein via a vegetarian diet. Soy products are not easily digested by dogs and vegetarian protein lacks key amino acids (I think). His conclusion was that any soley vegetarian diet would be unbalanced.

Dr B's suggestion was to balance the diet via the addition of raw meaty bones. Perhaps if you want to go to the most ethically appropriate animal protein source, you could investigate organic chicken which is more readily available these days. I have certainly fed my dogs organic meat and offal before.

My personal view is that animals are not philosophers. I give my dogs the diet that nature intended.

George, I think your philosophy is admirable. However, do your homework very carefully as there is a chance that if you don't get this right, your dog will suffer for it.

[amstaffchick]

I am also a vegetarian and have been for well over 20 years ( im 30)....

I always wonder why some ppl go vegetarian for a few years and then return to meat eating?????

Anyhoo its very hard to make choices for others....I have two girls they both started off vegetarian but both eat the occassional meat now as they choose too, i will not force them not to eat meat just as i wouldnt force them to eat meat.....My eldest is 10 now and she is learning for herself what it means when you eat meat and so she only eats fish now ..she seems happy with that choice and its up to her...personaly i dont eat anything that once had a face.

Same with my dogs i guess, i feed them barf, i dont like doing it but im a tad lazy too....I did have a malamute and he was on a vegetarian diet due to health issuse he had and boy that was alot of work.....

Good on you for taking the time and the effort to do things right.....

[Miranda]

As for the problem of protein, there is wonderful thing called tofu, and there are plenty of other non-animal, high protein foods available.

George my Doggie, I know all about tofu, I eat it, it is made from soy beans, DO NOT feed your dog soy products. Soy contains saponins and saponins have been implicated as a cause of bloat in dogs. Tofu is certainly more easily digested than other soy products............by humans! I agree that there are plenty of high protein non-animal foods available, but the protein in vegetable matter is of a much lower grade and is not as easily utilised as the protein in meat, especially by dogs. Why don't you feed your dog BARF, believe me your dog will thank you for it.

Regarding veganism, I used to be a vegan and found it very hard to keep up my energy levels, even eating lots of sprouted grains didn't help. I also lost too much weight (I'm pretty slim to start with) and eventually I introduced some low fat quark into my diet which helped a lot. Also watch your B12 levels, it is best to take a supplement or drink B12 enriched soy milk as contrary to popular belief there is no B12 occurring naturally in mushrooms or tempeh. As you're a male you probably don't have to watch your iron levels as much, but just make sure you eat plenty of iron rich vegetables.

I applaud your motives in wanting to feed your dog a vegetarian diet, but I still don't agree with it.........for the dog's sake.

[poodlefan]

DO NOT feed your dog soy products. Soy contains saponins and saponins have been implicated as a cause of bloat in dogs.

Not to mention causing wind in many dogs.

[pug rescue victoria]

I am a vegetarian too, it does make me sick everytime I give my dogs chicken necks .Yuck!! I've heard you can make dogs vegetarians, but not cats.