Breeding blue bitch and red male Staffordshire bull terrier

[dawnb12]

I'm intrigued to find out what colour puppies would be produced if someone bred a kc registered blue bitch (white cross on chest) and kc registered red male (white front paw) both got amazing bloodlines. With there Inbreeding Coefficient (COI) only being 3.6 percent. Which i believe the lower the better. 

[Dogsfevr]

Colour i cant help as im not sure how simple it is in Staffies without knowing colours in pedigree & DNA colour testing .
As to the COI it again is as simple as lower is better & hopefully no breeder goes by that theory alone .
I do know in the UK many have that mindset yet within my breed  dogs in a pedigree of hips scores up near the 30 OMGno BAER testing  but brag about the COI being low has truly screwed over the concept on know your pedigree 

Edited January 19 by Dogsfevr

[Mairead]

By KC do you mean Kennel Club England?

On your dog's pedigree are the colours of the dogs mentioned? It is possible, depending on the colours of the grandparents that you could get some washed -out unhealthy looking and non-standard colours from the combination of Ay and d genes. Is there a recommendation that blue should only be bred to black, as there is in the Great Dane?

Colour should usually be the last thing you consider when breeding but because you mention blue, are you familiar with colour dilution alopecia? 

 

The most important thing before breeding would be to know as much as you can about not just the proposed parents but also their relatives. 

I put it this way: the dog you know and love is just one hand of cards in a big deck. The relatives will show you what other cards might be in the deck but when you breed you will be shuffling those cards and hoping to get only the good ones.

 

Edited January 17 by Mairead

[asal]

usually blue to gold/red would be all black puppies, unless the red/gold carried a blue dilution gene, then some could be blue.  Or the blue carried only one black gene then some could be red/gold

 

only way to know what they carry is a dna profile done

 

which is a good idea anyway, you sure dont want puppies with two copies for PRA or PLL

just for starters. the profile will give you who is clear, carrier or two copies for many conditions

Edited January 18 by asal

[sandgrubber]

How was COI calculated?  It's possible that a 5 generation COI looks good but a 16 generation COI is a disaster.  I don't know if line breeding was fashionable for Staffies in past decades.  DNA testing is preferred if a pedigree that goes back many many generations can't be found.

[Michaelharry]

The coat color of the puppies will depend on the genetic inheritance from both the blue bitch and the red male. Blue coat color in dogs is typically a dilution of black, while red is a form of a diluted fawn or tan. The specific combination will likely result in a range of coat colors in the puppies, such as blue, red, and possibly fawn, depending on the parents' genetic makeup. The white markings (like the chest cross and front paw) may also be passed down. The low inbreeding coefficient of 3.6% suggests good genetic diversity, which can help maintain healthy and strong offspring.

[asal]

low COI is no guarantee you will get healthy strong offspring if you dont dna profile for the known defects that have dna profile markers found.

 on the down side there are thousands of others for which there is no marker found as yet. But at least the conditions below can be prevented in the puppies if you know the parents dont both carry a copy to pass on, most tend to be recessive. others semi or dominant.

 

COI is only one tool in a very big box, 

 

https://www.orivet.com/breeder/for-dogs/breeds/staffordshire-bull-terrier/137?product=137&name=Staffordshire Bull Terrier

 

 

https://www.orivet.com/breeder/for-dogs/breeds/american-staffordshire-terrier/42?product=42&name=American Staffordshire Terrier

Edited Friday at 10:40 PM by asal

[asal]

I do find it funny that people assume breeding a blue to a black will prevent blue gene alopecia?  No pup will be blue unless it inherits two copies, so if the black parent carries blue, then the blue pups are what?  Blue.  Blue to blue will give what? Blue pups with two copies, no different to the two copies inherited from the blue parent and the black carrying blue parent.   The ignorance of genetics after all these decades is a bit disheartening, although it can be  wonderful for someone like happened when a breeder decided the best pup in the litter was not a keeper because she was a "weak" colour. ie chocolate nose and gold and white patches with a chocolate sheen,  she was actually a chocolate fawn particolour (chihuahua) but can pop up in many breeds. due to the chocolate dilution she had light eyes so her breeder considered her to be weak, totally ignorant that ALL chocolates have what? light eyes.  So was lucky enough to get one of the best she had bred for a bargain price. bred to non chocolate or carrier stunning black noses, black eye rims and dark eyes, just what she wanted to breed.  Ditto for all blues, the dilution lightens the nose, eye rims and EYES. its call linked and you cant change that.

 

 

the dog that is blue either has two copies or not blue. some breeds have had the suspected ell to cause it, have had it selected out. (example Weimaraner)  once a marker can be found for the ell, no more blue gene alopecia in any more puppies EVER. 

 

Early  Weimaraner breeders achieved it without the invention of dna profiling... how smart are they?  

They are are all double blue, double chocolate , every single one of them, so as so often assumed they should be riddled with blue gene alopecia since every litter is the result of blue to blue parents.

Rather gives the lie that blue to blue weakens the line surely?  ditto to chocolate to chocolate.  As  for a pup with two chocolate and two blue, with that light or dark lavender colouring (also called taupe or silver) .  without the alopecia ell the pup will never develop it either.

 

 

 

according to the bred standard all Weimaraners are double blue, double chocolate.

 

Colour:

Silver, roe or mouse grey, as well as shades of these colours. Head and leathers generally slightly paler. Only small white markings on chest or toes permitted. Sometimes a more or less defined trace occurs along the back. Dogs with definite reddish yellow markings may only be given the classification good. Brown marking is a serious fault.

 

 

In my chihuahua's I found on average only 1  blue pup in 4 might develop it, if neither parent has blue gene alopecia which would indicate it has to get two copies of the ell  from both parents to show up in a pup.

I suspect it is an ell linked to the blue gene or otherwise it would be showing up in non blue puppies, which is never has

 

 

other causes of coat loss, is low immune response which lets the natural skin flora to over reproduce and cause hair loss, often happens after vaccination or over vaccination

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by asal

[asal]

ow wow       

 

genetics' made easy

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 10:41 PM by asal