Dog returned to breeder as wouldn’t eat, now breeder won’t return dog or give refund

[Deej722]

Hello! I really need some advice. Please note I live in Qld so am subject to Qld or Federal Law

I bought a 16-weeks old puppy from Michelle on the 10^th of August from a breeder in Brisbane. Her name is Michelle, and she runs Chihuahua Pups North Brisbane. From the moment I got her she wouldn’t eat. I made up a special recipe of food as per the breeder's instructions. Luna would just pick a tiny piece of giblet then dance and play around with it, bit like a cat who plays with a mouse, then eat it. I tried feeding this to her every day. Luna wouldn’t go near a plate or bowl. She’d actively recoil every time I placed something in front of her. I thought maybe she had a fear certain colours or bowls. I was at my wits end. So, at much expense I tried a lot of things: 

I tried:

·       I cooked up the breeder’s recipe (attached), 

·       Optimum wet and dry food, 

·       Hill’s Science Diet wet puppy food

·       My Dog puppy with chicken and rice

·       Finely chopped roasted chicken with bone broth and blended cooked vegetables

·       Dried food soaked in puppy milk. 

I tried serving it warm and cold, served on round plates, square plates, different coloured square and round plates, on paper towels, with me sitting on the floor ext to her and lastly by hand. The only thing Luna wanted was those Vita Pet milky stick treats. Every day I reported what was happening to the breeder – Michelle. I have a Messenger log of our conversations.

 

Every day I put some dry food out and a couple tablespoons of food in a bowl, even chopped her milky treat up very finely and put it in the food in a bowl. But she would still only sniff it and then walk around the house and garden crying and sniffing for food. The crying was heartbreaking  because there was food there. So, after all this effort, I thought maybe there was something medically wrong with her. 

 

Therefore, on Day five (5), I brought her to our local vet, Dr Belinda Leslie of Moffat Beach Vets. She was lovely and gave her a free puppy check, even clipped her toenails. She examined Luna and said she was healthy, but a little skinny. I explained how I couldn’t get her to eat anything but treats. Then she asked what I’d been trying. I told her everything I’ve been cooked and bought, but she won’t eat anything except treats. I told her what was in the recipe the breeder gave me, and she scoffed. Dr Leslie said Luna should be on a high-quality canned food for puppies. She gave me a can of Hill’s Science Diet for puppies. Got it home, put some on a plate, one sniff and she was off crying again, sniffing for food.

 

On day seven (7) I was really panicking because Luna hadn’t eaten anything substantial for a week. The breeder tells me she was fine with her, but dogs get stressed with change. I was scared Luna would become malnourished if we kept on like this. The breeder said to bring her back. Asked me to drop her at the home of her best friend Vicki in Noosaville. She then offered me another dog. I didn’t want another dog. Then she said she’d ONLY refund my money once she sold her. 

 

I gave Luna back ONLY out of concern for her health! After just one day I missed Luna so much. Despite the feeding difficulties, we had really bonded. So I asked for her back. I told her I’d bought a crate and I’d be willing to pay for food made by her initially. I would start from scratch with the food training. That I would crate train her and bring her to puppy school. 

 

Anyway, she then had a best friend Vicki pipe in (a breeder from Chihuahua Pups Noosa) who said:

 

“This is Vicki, you are not getting pup back pup needs a stable home not to be dumped at my place when you don't want her. If she was my puppy I wouldn't give you any money back, same as the RSPCA’s you dump a dog there you have surrender it no money. You didn't feed her properly you complained about her, crying all the time you don't deserve a dog!”

 

Well, this message floored me emotionally.  I didn’t know this person and they don’t know me. She was accusing me of “dumping” the dog when I just wanted reassurance regarding her eating. I dropped Luna at Vicki’s mansion in Noosa, not in the gutter. I also provided a car seat, bed, puppy pads, a lead, four little outfits, chew toys I’d bought, treats, dental sticks, puppy milk, two types of dry food and some optimum wet food. Is this the making of a cruel, abusive dog owner? 

 

Once I had a day to clear my head and room to think it all through, I realised how much I missed Luna and asked for her back. I admitted I had mistakes at the start. I should have crate trained her. I suffer from major depression, and I think I just got overwhelmed. I was afraid that she would get sick with everyday that passed and she’d end up with malnutrition. For her sake I wanted the breeder to assess her. 

 

I paid Luna off over a few months because I’m on disability. I paid one third via bank transfer but the rest in cash. I paid $450 via bank transfer and, $1050 cash because I’m too trusting. Stupidly, I didn’t get a receipt for the cash portion.  But it is well documented in our Messenger conversations. I wouldn’t have been allowed to take her if I hadn’t paid in full. 

 

I was scammed in January when trying buy a puppy via Facebook. I lost $1300. I now hunt down these scammers and identify and report any I find on dog groups. This is because I don’t want others to end up losing money like me. 

 

I could not have done more for Luna. I’m about $1800 out of pocket. With the vaccinations and extra food? I’ll miss her but won’t see her again. I just want to put this horrible experience (with the breeders not Luna) behind me. I also want a refund now, not when she sells her. Why should I be left in limbo when the breeder is selling puppies every day at $1500-$2000 a pop. I can’t move forward while she keeps me on a string waiting for my refund.

 

I’m a good and kind person whose been made to feel like an animal abuser. The breeder has now blocked me on fb and so things ar even more up in the air. 

I just need advice, legal or otherwise. Yes, I gave her back, but that was to SAVE her from starving. I wanted the breeder to assess her, not keep her. I am more than willing to try again, but the breeder says “NOPE”!

 

That’s okay, the whole experience has been tainted. I’ll go to an ANKC breeder should I ever be ready to get a dog again. Ironically, it’s two years today since the love of my life – a Maltese Chihuahua X named Mickey - passed away at 18years of age. I still grieve for him. I’m not ready to look again for a while especially after this shit show. Looking for some positive advice today. 

 

A member of the Oz Chihuahua Group on Facebook said animals fall under the ACCC and I have a legal right to a full refund. Can anyone confirm this?

 

Thank you all 

 

[Deej722]

Hi

[Rebanne]

How on earth could you spend $1800 in 7 days on a chihuahua? The pup was obviously eating something as otherwise she'd be dead after 7 days. You made a mess of things swapping food and plates etc around. I wouldn't sell you another pup and I wouldn't give you a full refund either.

[Mairead]

What a pity you didn't do some research here before you made a mess of it. 

You seemed to have joined to complain. 

[Boronia]

Firstly Contact Qld Dept Fair Trading https://www.qld.gov.au/law/fair-trading

and your local Legal Aid office https://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/About-us/Contact-us

Have a chat to your local MP (usually the office staff can help) https://www.ecq.qld.gov.au/electoral-boundaries/where-is-my-electorate/location

[tdierikx]

@Deej722can you please post the breeder's food recipe here? It may help us to work out why she was averse to all of your feeding efforts.

 

As a general rule, dogs won't starve themselves to death. At some point they will be hungry enough to eat and won't be too fussy about what food that is. Sometimes we owners need to be strong and wait the fussy ones out.

 

At 16 weeks of age, Luna would also probably have been teething, so her mouth may have been a bit sore, and that can make them a bit more fussy about certain foods or presentations of same. Again, putting softer foods down and waiting them out usually works eventually.

 

I would say that it wouldn't take much food to feed a 16 week old chihuahua enough to maintain reasonable health, as the vet found. Luna was maybe a little lean, but otherwise healthy, so your efforts had obviously been enough to maintain a reasonable level of health for Luna. Please take a little comfort from that fact...

 

You mention you paid for a vaccination for Luna. At 16 weeks she should have come to you fully vaccinated. Was this not the case? Did she have documentation of when she had her other vaccinations and worming treatments?

 

As for the refund, it looks like you may end up having to go to QCAT with your case. You have a receipt for the $450 deposit - does it say "deposit" on that receipt? As for the cash portion, if you withdrew it from your bank account before handing it over, there should be a record of that on your bank statement with the date showing the withdrawal around the time you took possession of Luna, so that may be evidence enough for the rest of the purchase price claim through QCAT. Worst case, you may be able to find an advertisement for pups for sale by the same breeder showing the price she regularly charges for them, which could also back up your claim. The text messages regarding the payment terms will also help as evidence.

 

T.

[Deej722]

[tdierikx]

1 hour ago, Deej722 said:

 

I've seen worse diets... personally, I'd go human grade mince and leave it raw in the mix. Could have tried human grade chicken mince also. My go-to is Savour Life Puppy raw food from Petbarn at the moment... and having good effect with the pups I've been fostering with it - but none of them have been fussy eaters.

 

T.

[DogsAndTheMob]

Let’s not be too quick to cast blame. It’s not possible to be sure whether Luna’s pickiness was exacerbated by the OP’s management or caused by a health problem. I’ve raised 10 puppies over 50 years without problems and, as the daughter of ANKC breeders, assisted with the raising of many others. Two years ago I had a puppy who came to me as the runt of the litter. Like Luna, she was hungry but reluctant to eat. Sometimes she’d eat a little of a food but she’d always refuse to eat it again. She seemed a bit frail to me but I wasn’t familiar with the breed and thought maybe I was imagining the frailty. Otherwise, she was energetic and looked healthy enough to pass two vet checks… until she wasn’t. After a rapid decline, she was rushed to a vet and then to SASH, where she was diagnosed with severe congenital kidney failure. It seems likely that the protein in food made her feel sick, which prompted her to refuse to eat that food again.

 

My mother - a very experienced breeder - had a similar experience with a happier outcome. A very well bred border collie puppy she purchased wouldn’t eat and the vet could find nothing wrong. She coaxed it to eat by flicking teaspoons of food to stimulate the predatory chase-grab-swallow sequence. After several days, it passed blood and a sharp piece of bone. The puppy’s breeder blamed a friend who had assisted with raising the litter.

 

To the OP, I’m so sorry to hear about your experiences. I hope Luna is healthy and happily living in a new home and I hope you are able to purchase or adopt a delightful puppy who will bring you many years of joy. I’m not sure what you can do to recoup your money. Even if you won a case in a small claims tribunal, you might not be able to force the breeder to pay up. You might end up paying more and enduring considerable stress with no good outcome.

Edited August 27 by DogsAndTheMob

[Mairead]

Thank you to the people who responded with more sympathy than me. 

We have had here a few one post odd bods in recent days. Caught me at a bad time?

But there are still red flags in OP. They bought the dog "four little outfits", and "a car seat"? The food recipe says "freeze one muffin per night". Should that be "feed one muffin ..." Is once a day feeding right for a toy breed of not fully vaccinated age?

Edited August 28 by Mairead

[sheena]

27 minutes ago, Mairead said:

Thank you to the people who responded with more sympathy than me. 

We have had here a few one post odd bods in recent days. Caught me at a bad time?

But there are still red flags in OP. They bought the dog "four little outfits", and "a car seat"? The food recipe says "freeze one muffin per night". Should that be "feed one muffin ..." Is once a day feeding right for a toy breed of not fully vaccinated age?

I think there is a punctuation mark missing there...it is probably supposed to read "freeze.  One muffin per night"

[persephone]

That feeding does seem OK for adults, but not puppies . 

[Dogsfevr]

No one can answer as it requires both sides story .
You would need to contact the body that deals with goods & services issues in your state .

As for being $1800 out of pocket i would suggest thats not an accurate amount on necessary requirements & your would have to prove all costs if that topic is brought up .I mean no puppy needs 4 outfits & i truly hope you werent dressing this pup up in the 7 days you had it as that would totally overwhelm any new puppy settling in to a new home & routine 
No way would 7 days get to that amount .
Generally speaking a breeder may not offer a full refund that would be based on their sales contract but in this situation we wouldnt straight away & the reason why .
You are returning a dog that for all intents & purposes hasnt eaten for 7 days so would require a vet consult irrespective if you have been to a vet.
Once a vet report was done a copy would be sent to the current owner 
I think based on your heading & the fact you state you returned all the items the breeder would be under the impression you no longer want the dog ,that is how i read the post & then you decided to change your mind ,if not this reads total confusion & i understand why the breeder has decided moving forward what is in the dogs best interest based on i gather many messages .
Before even considering rehoming the dog it would need from the breeder a full vet check ,the dog may require retraining .
Im not taking sides But puppies have been returned to breeders in not the same condition it left even after a week.
Breeders may then refund what expenses have been taken out & again the breeder would have to prove they are necessary .

I would likely say posting all the details on here is not the smartest thing to do especially as the breeder most likely will have been informed & made a copy so anything posted here would be part of any claim if you went down that path .
 

[Mairead]

A dog can be ruined by ignorance as well as by neglect or abuse.

Edited August 28 by Mairead

[tdierikx]

I read the $1800 as being the original $1500 purchase price plus $300 in the week the OP had her. She mentions that the pup required a vaccination, so you can chalk up a good $150 or more on that, depending on which vaccination was given - I think a C5 sits around that price nowadays. The rest could have included various types of other foods the OP tried to feed said pup. There is no mention of worming/flea/tick treatments, but I'm sure the vet probably at least suggested that when doing the vaccination.

 

Regardless any possible "ignorance" on the part of the OP in dealing with this fussy pup, there is no excuse for the breeder or the third party Vicki being downright nasty in some of their messages to her. By all accounts, the pup arrived refusing to eat even the diet provided by the breeder, and the OP made all efforts to find a way to tempt her to eat to no avail, and also sought veterinary advice on the matter... so I would say that she gave her best effort at least, and deserves a little more respect/leeway than she has been given.

 

At this point, the breeder now has both the purchase price AND the pup (and seemingly all the "power")... and the OP is just seeking help to resolve that, as she has neither for her effort/outlay.

 

T.

[Dogsfevr]

14 hours ago, tdierikx said:

I read the $1800 as being the original $1500 purchase price plus $300 in the week the OP had her. She mentions that the pup required a vaccination, so you can chalk up a good $150 or more on that, depending on which vaccination was given - I think a C5 sits around that price nowadays. The rest could have included various types of other foods the OP tried to feed said pup. There is no mention of worming/flea/tick treatments, but I'm sure the vet probably at least suggested that when doing the vaccination.

 

Regardless any possible "ignorance" on the part of the OP in dealing with this fussy pup, there is no excuse for the breeder or the third party Vicki being downright nasty in some of their messages to her. By all accounts, the pup arrived refusing to eat even the diet provided by the breeder, and the OP made all efforts to find a way to tempt her to eat to no avail, and also sought veterinary advice on the matter... so I would say that she gave her best effort at least, and deserves a little more respect/leeway than she has been given.

 

At this point, the breeder now has both the purchase price AND the pup (and seemingly all the "power")... and the OP is just seeking help to resolve that, as she has neither for her effort/outlay.

 

T.

He said she said which is why no sides should be taken & proof by BOTH parties .
But a breeder if their contract is there does not have to refund asap & can take expenses out if need be & the balance returned & again proof required .
The breeder in the OP words offered a solution ,A new pup & has said return of money on sale which again makes it obvious the OP didnt hand the pup back to see if it would eat as thats not something one would discuss unless returning the dog .

OP in there schedule didnt have pup vaccinated with her Day 5 vet no mention of vaccination .
Im gathering the pup stayed longer with the breeder & required its vaccination irrespective 

Edited August 29 by Dogsfevr

[tdierikx]

The OP does not have to accept a replacement, regardless of one being offered. The pup was returned as it had a major issue that the OP could not resolve, even after consulting a vet. Essentially the "goods" were not of an "acceptable quality", and the OP has returned the "goods", so is entitled to at least a majority portion of the purchase price as a refund. The pup was not returned to be sold on consignment, and the breeder mentioned is currently still selling pups regularly from other litters. Why should the OP have to wait until her particular returned pup is sold, when other pups have been sold since the return of that pup for the same price or more? The breeder should be financial enough to refund sooner rather than later.

 

There is no excuse for either party to resort to nastiness in response to a situation like this, nor block communication from/with the other party before the issue is settled.

 

T.

[Mairead]

OP states they were scammed in January $1300 when trying to buy a puppy via Facebook, but went back to Facebook for next puppy? And now they hunt down scammers and report them to dog groups.

I hope OP and the supplier of pup learn something from all this.

Buying a living being is not like buying a toaster!

[Chihuahua pups Noosa]

Dee  I think if you go on pages you should probably actually be truthfully about the situation. 
Vicki here My name was mentioned in this post.
Dee brought this pup off Michelle in Brisbane.
Dee was supplied with 1 week of food a book with the recipe for the food 
Dee was told that the pup will also eat boiled chicken.
Dee rang Michelle constantly
I week later
First pup wouldn't stop crying
Then pup pooing everywhere and peeing
Then pup won't eat
Then week 2 I want to give pup back Michelle offered another pup but Dee said no too stressful don't want another one.
Michelle offered to try and sell her and would Then give her the money less expenses .
Michelle has 4 other puppies to also sell so Luna is not her priority.
Dee was on holiday in Hervey Bay and Michelle asked me if Dee 

could drop the pup to me in Noosa rather than drive to Brisbane from Hervey Bay  I said it was fine.
Dee never turned up she never messaged nothing Then decided to keep her another week as she was still on holiday(this is a pup that she said wasn't eating)
I told Michelle to contact her and let her know if she isnt eating by now 2 weeks another week wasn't really good for her and best to drop her off.
3 days later she dropped her to my house I was a stranger to the poor little pup but she cuddled up in my arm .
Dee dropped a bag with coats food she had been feeding her and left .
I put some food down and she ate it fine I took a photo sent to Michelle. 
I went through the bag she left to find she was feefing her lots of different puppy food not the recipe Michelle gave her including Dine cat food,if this pup had been with Dee much longer she would of had problems you don't feed puppies cat food.
Pup was fine not starving went outside to pee she stayed with me 2 days until Michelle picked her up as she was working no problems at all with her just not looked after properly.
Dee then started to contact Michelle with threats 1 day after surrender even though she was told when she sells her she would get her money.
Michelle was quiet upset and on the day she picked Luna up showed me the messages pages full of threats Then Dee wanted her back  .There was no way Michelle would give her back and feel she  the pup would be looked after ,then after 20 or so messagers I messaged Dee and told her if she had surrendered the pup to me I wouldn't give her money or give her back . Dee gos on this site and puts Michelle and my name on there then someone put Michelle full name and email and my details. 
People need to realise there are 2 sides to every story before you decide to shame Breeders that do the right thing .
If anyone sells or gives this person a pup  beware she will not look after the pup all good to buy clothes dress it up but you need to feed it properly.
Michelle has now put up with a week of nasty messagers from this women that has now told her she didn't have approval from landlord ,moving ,and many other excuses when she gave the dog back.
Please think before you start shaming breeders on this site

Edited August 30 by Chihuahua pups Noosa
Untruthfulness Post

[tdierikx]

@Chihuahua pups Noosamaybe Michelle should refund Dee sooner rather than later if Dee is stressing enough about it to keep sending messages and threats then? Would save a lot of headaches methinks. Sometimes sticking to your guns on an issue isn't worth the long term hassle, yes?

 

T.