Breeder advertising purebred, pedigree poodles, DNA clear. Then breeder admits in writing not DNA clear they got 2 pedigreed dogs without papers for breeding and 1 on pedigree papers she is breeding with but no evidence of this. False advertising

[HoneyHound]

Contacted breeder of toy and miniature poodles as add claimed "pedigree", "purebred bloodlines", "DNA cleared".  After asking the breeder to provide evidence and verify the "purebred bloodlines" and "DNA cleared" she admitted that she has no evidence of 2 female poodles (2 litters available)  "purebred bloodlines" but claims NSW pedigree breeder sold them to her without papers.  She then stated that the breeding dam of the litters she was selling did not actually have DNA test results prior to breeding via artificial insemination at her vets.  Breeder claimed that having "poodle" written on DNA test results for some of her other poodle proved they were pedigree.  The breeder then went on to entice me with her new breed of poodles "moyen" from her pedigree papered standard poodle who she had previously bred with and was planning to breed with one of her other miniature poodles.  No DNA results offered with this one either.

 

No record of this breeder having a pedigree papered breeding poodle.

 

Breeders add

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/dulwich/dogs-puppies/phantom-sable-poodles-/1323379315

Edited May 7 by HoneyHound
corrected details

[Rebanne]

there is nothing to stop any person getting two dogs from wherever and breeding them. Nothing to stop them telliing lies either. They are not a breeder.

[Dogsfevr]

Not sure what the point of your post is ??
There not claiming there DogsNSW members 
Anyone can buy 2 dogs & breed them.
There are various registries out there ,whether we agree with them or not they are legal & recognized 
There a member of an org that also caters for crossbreeds details of that group clearly listed & easily to research .

Breeding is easily allowed & dont understand how people cant grasp the concept as long as they meet there State laws you can be .
Stop the Puppy Farming bills dont stop breeding 
a breeder all clearly written for anyone to read .

As to the other aspects not going to comment as its your words not their written word 
 

Edited May 6 by Dogsfevr

[coneye]

I don't have this  dilima  , because  i break it down  to easy   choices ,  if i want a dog its simple , i ask myself do i want a big or small dog  , in the past its usually a big dog , then i ask myself what type ,  ,  ,  pedigree or mongrel  , to me theres only two  types  a   purbred which is a   pedigree  WITH PAPERS  (prove )  or a mongrel ,   a dog without papers or prove , it could well be a pedigree  , but it could also have something else    without papers , (prove ) i would'nt know sometimes 

 

I then look and its simple ,   theres the dog wheres the papers ,  no papers , i'm not paying top dollar , they can sprout all the rubbish they want about   mains and no mains  registered ,  , Far has i'm concerned   if i'm buying a pedigree I WANT PAPERS , why am i so adamant thats easy , because that dog is MY POSSESION  and if i want to show the dog , or breed the dog  then i will  simple has that , but in order to do so i need papers (prove )  its that simple , now with saying that i've had some beutiful dogs over the years  (pedigrees )  and i've even had the breeders ask me  will i   bring my dogs back and breed them  they have turned out so good ,  , but    breeding and showing  has no interest for me  so i've never done it my dogs are purely pets .

 

All in all   its a pedigree with papers or its  not a pedigree ,   and that should reflect in the price ,   want to buy the offsprng of last years cruft champion , be prepared to pay top dollar  , want to buy a dog of gumtree with no papers , well you pay what YOU think its worth ,, don't give this backyard breeder your money ,   me i'd say heres my phone number  give me a ring if you get stuck with 3-4 puppys , i'll take one and give it a good home  but only for free .

 

Don't encourage bad breeding ,  these people obviously  don't know what there doing  its about the dollars . 

 

Suppose while i'm ranting i'll mention another pet hate , Breeders who    have dogs , breed from them  3 -4  whatever times , make good money on them and when there older  , want to0 get rid of them to make room for more breeding stock ,  then advertize them has wanted  a good home  to take care of this precious dog , ,  yeh right that precious  its got to go , but then ask thousands for someone else to have the privilige of then bringing an older dog into there home , having to usually house train it often not being able to becuase its lived its live in an outside kennel  new owners  getting an older dog , which is not going to live that long and will come associated with higher vets bills ,  ,  but they still want thousands ,

 

Grrrr it pisses me off  ,   when looking for an older dog because were now  becoming an older couple this is what i found , so called breeders who love there dogs but loved there dollars even more , ridiculous prices   for   dogs they did'nt even want anymore ,   personally  i don't have a problem ranting about this BECAUSE   to some  (ME ) a dog is like familly IN FACT IT IS PART OF THE FAMILLY AND I COULD'NT GET RID  NO MORE THAN I COULD GET RID OF ONE OF MY KIDS  , to others a dog is just a buisness , when i was working  i sdid'nt have any problem or conscience about getting rid of a worker if they did'nt suit  could'nt do it with my pet though

[HoneyHound]

On 6/5/2024 at 10:03 AM, Rebanne said:

there is nothing to stop any person getting two dogs from wherever and breeding them. Nothing to stop them telliing lies either. They are not a breeder.

They are registered with DACO and RPBA

[HoneyHound]

22 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

Not sure what the point of your post is ??
There not claiming there DogsNSW members 
Anyone can buy 2 dogs & breed them.
There are various registries out there ,whether we agree with them or not they are legal & recognized 
There a member of an org that also caters for crossbreeds details of that group clearly listed & easily to research .

Breeding is easily allowed & dont understand how people cant grasp the concept as long as they meet there State laws you can be .
Stop the Puppy Farming bills dont stop breeding 
a breeder all clearly written for anyone to read .

As to the other aspects not going to comment as its your words not their written word 
 

They are falsely advertising pedigree bloodlines and DNA clear, then admit neither is true.  Its a breach of their DACO and RPBA memberships and state consumer laws.

[Dogsfevr]

1 hour ago, HoneyHound said:

They are falsely advertising pedigree bloodlines and DNA clear, then admit neither is true.  Its a breach of their DACO and RPBA memberships and state consumer laws.

Unless you have the written proof to back it up its you v them still .
If you believe there's a breach then report them no point coming on to DOL .

At this point your post could have an agenda as its a weird thing to post & you only joined a few days back & this is your first postso its does ring "strange" .
And no i dont support them but if your going to bag out anyone one then you need the proof to back your claims up 

[coneye]

I think Honeyhound is just pointing out , the lies and deception that some breeders will go to ,  this paticular person i would'nt call a breeder , but still theres some  for want of a better word , proper breeders out there , who's only concern is the dollar , the dogs  come second and thats A FACT .

[Dogsfevr]

1 hour ago, coneye said:

I think Honeyhound is just pointing out , the lies and deception that some breeders will go to ,  this paticular person i would'nt call a breeder , but still theres some  for want of a better word , proper breeders out there , who's only concern is the dollar , the dogs  come second and thats A FACT .

Rarely does someone join a forum & the first post like this one .
I dont take anyones word without proof to back up the he said ,she said .
There is always 3 sides to a story his,hers & the truth 
The posts gets stuff added but no actual facts .
Anyone who has dealt with orivet knows the problems Many ethical breeders have had multi failed swabs ,,taking months to get results to even register litters & unable to register their puppies to meet the state laws in their state & having to wait ,retest many opting to send blood know .
Qld folk will tell you all about the issues plus many more from around Australia especially as they have to do parentage tests.
Dogs Vic is joining the same method & people are panicking over how things will proceed next year 

We use overseas as do many others including Massey,Animal health diagnostics or Labkolin 
If both parents of dam & sire where clear then the parents are clear by parentage .
Registered breeder can still mean brought from MDBA.
No record of this breeder having a pedigree papered breeding poodle.
The dogs could have come from a MDBA breeder or the other various registries ( again i dont support the other spin off registries but we can not claim someone doesnt have a registered dog in their name when there are other registries out there  whose data base we cant access nor can we even check on the DogsAustralia page who owns a pet dog ,we can check registered litters by prefix .

I still dont get the point of the post .
The pups are insanely cheap .
They belong to a register that  are useless if you want to be part of Dogs Australia 
People will buy what they want .
If you want a papered dog go to a breeder that offers what you want 
If they have broken there state rules dob them in .
There are aspevts that can be explained but unless every aspect is there to read not bits & pieces its just another us v them post 

 

[HoneyHound]

2 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

Unless you have the written proof to back it up its you v them still .
If you believe there's a breach then report them no point coming on to DOL .

At this point your post could have an agenda as its a weird thing to post & you only joined a few days back & this is your first postso its does ring "strange" .
And no i dont support them but if your going to bag out anyone one then you need the proof to back your claims up 

The proof is in their written messages.  The breeder got her breeding stock from dogsNSW members during Covid who sold them without any papers and another with claimed papers.  This person who is not a dogsNSW member got her breeding stock from dogsNSW members.  

[Dogsfevr]

16 minutes ago, HoneyHound said:

The proof is in their written messages.  The breeder got her breeding stock from dogsNSW members during Covid who sold them without any papers and another with claimed papers.  This person who is not a dogsNSW member got her breeding stock from dogsNSW members.  

Where does it say DogsNSW member ??
Maybe i missing that exact wording .

It says got her dogs from 2 NSW breeders .
They could from any of the various registers .
If you can highlight the DogsNSW part it would be great .
Again im not supporting anyone just if people are going to do these posts lets make sure its clearly listed 

[HoneyHound]

30 minutes ago, Dogsfevr said:

Rarely does someone join a forum & the first post like this one .
I dont take anyones word without proof to back up the he said ,she said .
There is always 3 sides to a story his,hers & the truth 
The posts gets stuff added but no actual facts .
Anyone who has dealt with orivet knows the problems Many ethical breeders have had multi failed swabs ,,taking months to get results to even register litters & unable to register their puppies to meet the state laws in their state & having to wait ,retest many opting to send blood know .
Qld folk will tell you all about the issues plus many more from around Australia especially as they have to do parentage tests.
Dogs Vic is joining the same method & people are panicking over how things will proceed next year 

We use overseas as do many others including Massey,Animal health diagnostics or Labkolin 
If both parents of dam & sire where clear then the parents are clear by parentage .
Registered breeder can still mean brought from MDBA.
No record of this breeder having a pedigree papered breeding poodle.
The dogs could have come from a MDBA breeder or the other various registries ( again i dont support the other spin off registries but we can not claim someone doesnt have a registered dog in their name when there are other registries out there  whose data base we cant access nor can we even check on the DogsAustralia page who owns a pet dog ,we can check registered litters by prefix .

I still dont get the point of the post .
The pups are insanely cheap .
They belong to a register that  are useless if you want to be part of Dogs Australia 
People will buy what they want .
If you want a papered dog go to a breeder that offers what you want 
If they have broken there state rules dob them in .
There are aspevts that can be explained but unless every aspect is there to read not bits & pieces its just another us v them post 

Sorry, just to clarify.  You know many breeders who's DNA swabs haven't dried and they then bred from the dog without any DNA results.  As this is what this person has done.

 

 

[Dogsfevr]

4 hours ago, HoneyHound said:

Sorry, just to clarify.  You know many breeders who's DNA swabs haven't dried and they then bred from the dog without any DNA results.  As this is what this person has done.

For starters DNA tests vary .
DogsQLD require parentage testing ,no other state does at present .
Not all breeds have mandatory testing to register a litter in DogsAustralia .What other orgs require i have no idea 
Breeds that must have testing are listed on DogsAustralia such as hips/elbows etc  mind you there is no cut off with what a breeding score is .
Each State also has State Govt laws so for Example the Govt laws in Victoria is very specific about breeding hereditary issues & that applies to anyone breeding under any org  .So anyone breeding in Vic with a breeders License again no matter what org their using has to also meet State govt laws 
So it would have to be clearly written in this breeders state laws about what is what .
It is certainly not listed in the same manner in my State Govt law.
Just checked SA State Gov laws on breeding & there not very strict at all just like ours a few lines of blah blah .
If they have breached rules then report them if there listed under probation for the RBPA then nothing will be done as i do know of a breeder issue with that org here so they where not upgraded to full 
So DNA testing is like an open book & what has to be & what doesnt & what a good breeder does .
DogsVic is bringing in parentage & some breeds will require DNA results for breeding purposes which is a very interesting can of worms for AI breedings of old semen that may not be fully tested or able to be tested ,
Orivet has had many failed swabs .Obviously people wouldnt bred with a dog if you didnt have clear by parentage results which PRA can be  but again this would be based on the breeder in question & their morals & ethics 
Again im not taking sides but i cant not read from whats there a black n white answer without asking correct questions & seeing the health results of the grandparents in relation to the sire & dam .
I can actually tell you far too many breeders under the varying orgs have no idea how to explain DNA tests results & some think certain panels tests mean all is good & infact havent tested for issues that are important so hence DNA testing is like an Open book & actually reading whats infront of you .
I know in my breed some of the breeders where just getting a general panel test which was full of useless stuff but not doing the tests that arent listed in a panel  bundle .
Alot of breeders in my breed claim PRA clear but thats incorrect as we can only test for sector 1 without the other sector we cant not claim fully  PRA clear .They are still researching at the Bakers institue .
Laboklin is probaly one of the most advanced testing places that covers many of the issues most dont .
So for some breeds orivet doesnt cover every issue as breeders we may have to use 2 diagnostic places even 3 .
DNA testing is not that simple so actually asking questions & knowing whats what is a very interesting world 
What they may have written could be truthful by knowing what the grandparents results are again it would require a correct conversation to know what has or hasnt been tested including hips/elbows which havent been mentioned .



 

Edited May 7 by Dogsfevr

[coneye]

Mmmm ,, Like i've said numerous times , i don't  now or ever , breed or show dogs , but looking at your post of what you have to go through , if i wanted too  i just would'nt be bothered with all that , makes me wonder in there aim  to stop byb  are they throwing the baby out with the bath water  , it looks to me that there actually encouraging it ,I can feel sorry for the person  up the road with a genuine love for there breed on what they would have toi go through , it would be very off putting  ,

 

[Rebanne]

21 hours ago, HoneyHound said:

They are registered with DACO and RPBA

No registration I recognise. Only one ANKC.

[Rebanne]

12 hours ago, coneye said:

Mmmm ,, Like i've said numerous times , i don't  now or ever , breed or show dogs , but looking at your post of what you have to go through , if i wanted too  i just would'nt be bothered with all that , makes me wonder in there aim  to stop byb  are they throwing the baby out with the bath water  , it looks to me that there actually encouraging it ,I can feel sorry for the person  up the road with a genuine love for there breed on what they would have toi go through , it would be very off putting  ,

 

Well you would actually if there was a chance of producing pups that go blind, or pups that would be dead before 12 months if you breed the wrong adults together. My breed for example has a disease that affected pups would be dead by 12 months if not sooner. Luckily we have a very active overseas group who got onto it very soon and it was a simple gene to trace.

[Dogsfevr]

Daco is the SA microchip database that any dog or cat is legally meant to be on & the registered breeder number is listed .
Its not a guarantee of anything but meeting the SA requirements .
Details easy to check 

Here is the issue Honeyhound you dont actually know what that detail is so trying to to discuss stuff with this person isn't going to get you anywhere if you don't actually understand what the various things mean yourself .

Edited May 8 by Dogsfevr

[HoneyHound]

1 hour ago, Dogsfevr said:

Daco is the SA microchip database that any dog or cat is legally meant to be on .

Here is the issue Honeyhound you dont actually know what that detail is so trying to to discuss stuff with this person isn't going to get you anywhere if you don't actually understand what the various things mean yourself .

 

Like I said, false advertising.  Breeding poodles of different sizes without any DNA rest results.  Unethical breeding.

[coneye]

4 hours ago, HoneyHound said:

 

Like I said, false advertising.  Breeding poodles of different sizes without any DNA rest results.  Unethical breeding.

Your never going to stop this  because simply theres money involved , I know of a lady ,  i've only spoke to her a couple of times through mutual freinds , she apparantly bred  labradors ,  i have heard her very vocal in the past totaly against  labradoodles , claiming it was byb 's   doing the wrong thing for money ect ect , throwing out all the   against   ideas , not in favor one bit  , got to say i agreed with her a lot and  could'nt then and still cannot  understand why people will pay THOUSANDS for a mongrel  she was always happy to hear my opinion ,  my wifes  freind payed 5 grand for one ,, 5 GRAND FOR A MONGREL WITH HEALTH ISSUSES .

 

Anyway that was then ,  now is now and she's changed   her whole ideas and attitudes , now   its great  there introducing a new breed , there doing a great justice for the dog world and all the other associated rubbish , but what changed her mind , thats an easy one  ,  she bought herself  a poodle and now   sells labradoodles   charges nearly double than she did for the labs has well ,   she don't like me any more because i  just casually said   its amazing what 5 grand a pup can do for your mindset LOL .