Deeds Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 It doesn't matter if the 1st escape was an accident. You can still be fined for it because it's an offence under the NSW Animal Companion Act. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 13 hours ago, Deeds said: It doesn't matter if the 1st escape was an accident. You can still be fined for it because it's an offence under the NSW Animal Companion Act. Definitely. But my point was more along the lines of knowing your dog has gotten out once before, there should be more care that it doesn't happen again. Council Rangers will usually give a little leeway and only issue a warning for a "first offence", but are more strict for repeat offences. The fact that the dog ran across the road to say hello to the neighbour worries me too... what if a car had been coming and the dog got hit? The owner would have a fine for dog at large, repair bills for the car, and possibly a horribly injured or dead dog... T. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 7/2/2024 at 11:19 PM, Sandrake said: Thank you for all your messages. I did own up to it that he escaped. However it was an accident so I am standing firm by my decision to go to court. There is a lot of stigma in this neighbourhood against staffies. You cannot imagine .. people cross the road. It is that bad! Thanks again for your opinion. Ok, so let’s go with this reaction and trial it with different scenarios. It’s 1:30pm and you get caught doing 80km in a 60km zone and the cop writes the time as 1:35pm. Would you take it to court? A thief climbs in through an open window during the night and steals your tv. You hear him and look at your phone and note the time says 1:50am. When the thief is charged, the cops record the theft as being 2:30am. Should he argue his case? I seriously don’t get the hang up on time, nor do I understand what you hope to achieve. Do you think you have a case to have the fine cancelled because the time was incorrectly recorded? Is that your motive - to deny responsibility and consequence? If it is, it shows a lack of moral judgement in my opinion. The best way you can contribute to changing perceptions about staffies is as someone else said before - model great behaviour and have a well trained, balanced dog. Don’t add to the poor perception of Staffy owner types by arguing against something you freely admit to being guilty of. Yes, it was an accident. It happens. We get that part. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandrake Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 I will admit to what happened. I asked council to rectify the time and they didn’t. There should be some leniency from the member. Council only wants revenue. I am seeking understanding of the situation, that’s all! Everyone just pays their fines because of the hassle that comes with it when trying to make yourself understood. Council is very happy to get the money. They don’t reason with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeds Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 @Sandrake Did you read the NSW Animal Companion Act? If as you say Council "don't reason with you" what do you think your chances are of winning this case. I would say zero. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 20 hours ago, Sandrake said: I will admit to what happened. I asked council to rectify the time and they didn’t. There should be some leniency from the member. Council only wants revenue. I am seeking understanding of the situation, that’s all! Everyone just pays their fines because of the hassle that comes with it when trying to make yourself understood. Council is very happy to get the money. They don’t reason with you. There will be little leniency from the court if you pursue this matter... that is simply a fact, OK? You have admitted the offence occurred, and it wasn't the first time your dog had gotten out and upset the complaining neighbour. If your dog wasn't wearing a collar and tag with your details on it, they will most likely pursue that as an extra charge, on top of the "at large" you are currently being asked to pay for. They could also throw in "menacing", as the neighbour was possibly frightened by your dog rushing towards them. They could then also throw in "not under effective control". Add all of that up, and then add council's court appearance costs, and it could be a rather pricey endeavour for you. The court could also order that your dog be further contained in a pen of some sort in your yard to make sure that it doesn't escape in future... and that's gonna be a big hassle for you to have to pay for and build to specific requirements - if your dog is declared "menacing"... If, by some twist of fate, you win the court case, that will be recorded by council, and any further escapes will have the book thrown at you... and they won't be making any mistakes for any further breaches of the law. Do you really need that extra scrutiny? In the end it will be the dog that may suffer from your fervour in pursuing this matter now. In all honesty mate, I'd just suck it up and pay the current fine, chalk it up to experience, and make darned sure that your dog can't leave your property unless you are in control of it. It's not worth the possible outcome for your dog to pursue it because council got the time of day slightly wrong on the infringement notice. Just one final question... would you be pursuing this matter if the ranger had changed the time as you asked, or are you simply reacting in kind to their indifference to your request? T. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeds Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Huge elevated sense of self entitlement. Thinking they can win the case because the wrong time was recorded. I see a lot of these FW's and their dogs in my area of Inner Sydney. I avoid them like the plague. It's never their or their dog's fault when something goes wrong. And their dogs are always off the leash on public streets because they're so special they don't need a leash. The obsession about the time definitely indicates what we are dealing with here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 oh so true @Deeds these type of owners and dogs are the reason I carry a riding crop with me and I have used it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 To me the main purpose of a fine is to bring a breach of something you did or caused to your attention. Authorities over time have identified that hitting people where it hurts most is the best way of doing that. I've worked for both local govt and state govt and its just a job. Noone is busy rubbing their hands with glee over finding more ways to raise revenue, but on the flip side a lot of time is spent trying to resolve resident and community problems. And loose dogs are problems. Noone is going to know whether your loose dog is friendly or not going to cause any harm or havoc until they get close either. I've owned staffords for most of my life and can tell you if ANY loose dog came racing over to me (particularly if I was walking my own dogs) I would be on alert. Even a docile dog could have a trigger. So is it worth pursuing in court because a detail of the fine is incorrect or is it worth accepting your dog was out and it did potentially cause a problem and council was merely trying to get you to take responsibility for that problem the best way they know how? I personally would prefer to know my dog was out so I could fix my property because emergency vet bills for a dog fight or car accident while they were out is a whole lot worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeds Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 I would say the problem here is the staffy owner's attitude. Obviously the escapes were reported to Council in a desperate bid to have the matter resolved. An apology goes a long way with other dog owners when you' and your dog are in the wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 41 minutes ago, Deeds said: An apology goes a long way with other dog owners when you' and your dog are in the wrong. Some people would rather cut off their balls (or their dog’s) than apologise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeds Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 In my experience a sincere apology can often prevent a complaint being made to Council. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, Deeds said: In my experience a sincere apology can often prevent a complaint being made to Council. Sincere being the operative word here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Sandrake. Why aren't you listening? Of course, yes it was an 'accident'. Nobody said you let your dog out the gate on purpose but the outcome was the same. You got fined and will try to argue it like a parking violation. Good luck though. I await the thread where you try to get out of a dangerous, menacing or nuisance dog order. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 On 10/02/2024 at 10:14 AM, Sandrake said: I will admit to what happened. I asked council to rectify the time and they didn’t. There should be some leniency from the member. Council only wants revenue. I am seeking understanding of the situation, that’s all! Everyone just pays their fines because of the hassle that comes with it when trying to make yourself understood. Council is very happy to get the money. They don’t reason with you. You said it yourself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisys Mum Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 A few months ago my dog was attacked by a dog who ran out from his unsecured front yard… luckily being a Husky she has a double coat which saved her from an injury (the dog grabbed her around the throat) sorry but you will get no sympathy from me… man up , pay the fine and hope to god you have learnt from your mistake. Having a typo on the fine doesn’t give you an easy way out… I’m sick to death of self entitled people who have their head so far up their a.. they can’t see the woods for the trees. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_H Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) 2 hours ago, Daisys Mum said: A few months ago my dog was attacked by a dog who ran out from his unsecured front yard… luckily being a Husky she has a double coat which saved her from an injury (the dog grabbed her around the throat) sorry but you will get no sympathy from me… man up , pay the fine and hope to god you have learnt from your mistake. Having a typo on the fine doesn’t give you an easy way out… I’m sick to death of self entitled people who have their head so far up their a.. they can’t see the woods for the trees. Thank god that staffy didn’t attack Daisy who is a very small Kelpie X. Edited February 11 by Mark_H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 19 hours ago, Deeds said: In my experience a sincere apology can often prevent a complaint being made to Council. yes except when they offer to pay vet bills and apologise is offered more then once and then a dangerous dog goes under the radar. If I hadn't had encouraged an owner to report, because I had prior knowledge of a serious dog attack and a near miss, then the dangerous dog would still be getting away with things. Problem is the owner of the attacked dog doesn't know if this is the first time or the 10th the dangerous dog has done this. I always encourage people to report 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coneye Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 The one thing i can see coming out of this , is YOUR gonna get a bigger fine, once you decide to fight it and waste the crts time , they will hit you harder , make no bones about it your GONNA LOSE , the court is going to fine you the usual amount , plus costs and then they will add on some more for you being so pompous , self righteous and wasting there time .. Let us know how you went on 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boronia Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 16 hours ago, coneye said: they will add on some more for you being so pompous , self righteous and wasting there time . Courts don't add more on if a person is a bit of a tool Coneye, imagine the amount of appeals that would ensure. I think Sandrake has gotten our advice now so maybe just lay off and let him make up his own mind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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