Another person killed by their own dog

[Rebanne]

21 hours ago, Diva said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12642811/amp/Dog-attack-Allens-Rivulet-Rottweiler-Tasmania.html
 

A lot more info in this article.  

but still no information on why

[Rebanne]

15 minutes ago, Amazetl said:

It would be important if they can do that to find out if that is the reason or rule it out so that there isn’t some hysteria around this particular dog breed. But how do you prevent a dog from just snapping due to a brain tumour? Are there subtle signs beforehand? How does a person protect themselves from the very unlikely event of that happening? 

 

 

One of my Greyhounds that I bred had a brain tumour and the first indication was a change in her temperament. In her case there was plenty of signs and she ended up PTS.

[DogsAndTheMob]

I hope that a full case history is collected in addition to the performance of a necropsy, so that both PTSD-like reactions and adverse events to medication are considered as causes.

 

Not long ago, I saw published information in which an attack on a person was attributed to “PTSD” caused by a previous serious attack on the dog that attacked the person. I’m not convinced that correlation equals causation, but it has been stated that this Rottweiler was recently attacked by another dog.

 

Something else that should be considered. There is evidence suggesting that isoxazoline in flea and tick medication can cause neurology symptoms, including seizures, in dogs. Is it possible that isoxazolines or other medications on rare occasions causes aggression, either associated with seizures or as a separate adverse event.?

Edited October 20, 2023 by DogsAndTheMob

[Mairead]

Abnormal neurological symptoms only seen in overdose.(3 to 5 times recommended dose) Ref: https://www.atlanticveterinaryhospital.com

(First search result for "isoxazoline seizures")

Edited October 20, 2023 by Mairead

[ellz]

4 hours ago, tdierikx said:

Any inquiry into the circumstances of this attack should include a necropsy of the dog (Ruben), to rule in or out any possibility that an underlying health issue may have contributed. Well bred dogs don't simply just "snap" and turn on their owners for no reason... especially to this level of aggression when none has ever been shown in the past.

 

The one and only incident of a dog (Rottweiler) "snapping" and randomly attacking that I'm personally aware of and knew the dog in question very well, a necropsy showed that it had had a brain tumour and bleed at the time the attack happened. Luckily in that incident, there were 4 large men (owners sons) in the vicinity who managed to contain the dog and stop it from doing any real harm to anyone. After it was put down, they had a necropsy done to find out what could have caused the dog to suddenly have such a massive temperament change, and the tumour/bleed was found.

 

T.

 

Absolutely the first thing that the person who told me and I said.

 

The owner’s experience with this breed and other large breeds is well-known and previously positively demonstrated.

 

 I put my hand on my heart and say that I would be very very surprised if any human action or interaction had been the cause of this tragedy!

[DogsAndTheMob]

59 minutes ago, Mairead said:

Abnormal neurological symptoms only seen in overdose.(3 to 5 times recommended dose) Ref: https://www.atlanticveterinaryhospital.com

(First search result for "isoxazoline seizures")

From what I’ve read, that advice is based on studies of a few hundred dogs, which shouldn’t be unthinkingly extrapolated to the millions of dogs in Australia alone that are treated with isoxazoline. I give my own dogs an isoxazoline flea and tick treatment to avoid the risks of not treating them but I do so acknowledging that any veterinary treatment (or indeed anything we do!) incurs some risk. IMO, it’s unlikely that medication of any type has caused these aggressive incidents but all possibilities should be considered.
 

This information produced by a company marketing an isoxazoline-based treatment in Europe provides a balanced consideration of the risks and explains why product information sheets for isoxazoline based treatments contain warnings about seizures:

 

”In September 2018, the FDA released an alert warning veterinarians and pet owners that animals receiving isoxazoline antiparasitics had been experiencing muscle tremors, ataxia, and seizures.¹⁰ During safety studies conducted during sarolaner drug approval, some 8-week-old beagles receiving 3 times and 5 times the upper end of the recommended dose (i.e., 12 mg/kg and 20 mg/kg, respectively) every 28 days for 10 doses exhibited seizures, tremors, and ataxia, which mostly resolved by the time the dogs reached 6 months of age, except for 1 dog with abnormal head coordination after dose 6, which led to the drug being approved only for dogs 6 months of age and older.¹ In a field effectiveness study of 315 dogs, 1 dog exhibited lethargy, ataxia, elevated third eyelids, and inappetence 1 day after receiving sarolaner concurrently with ivermectin/pyrantel pamoate; these signs resolved within 24 hours.¹ The prevalence of and potential risk factors for neurologic adverse effects are currently unknown, but the FDA maintains that isoxazolines are still safe for most animals.^10,11 Additional research is needed to further characterize the nature and prevalence of these adverse neurologic events, and the FDA is asking manufacturers to revise their product labels to include potential neurologic side effects and cautioning veterinarians to use discretion when prescribing drugs in this class.^10,11”

Edited October 20, 2023 by DogsAndTheMob

[asal]

On 20/10/2023 at 12:24 PM, DogsAndTheMob said:

From what I’ve read, that advice is based on studies of a few hundred dogs, which shouldn’t be unthinkingly extrapolated to the millions of dogs in Australia alone that are treated with isoxazoline. I give my own dogs an isoxazoline flea and tick treatment to avoid the risks of not treating them but I do so acknowledging that any veterinary treatment (or indeed anything we do!) incurs some risk. IMO, it’s unlikely that medication of any type has caused these aggressive incidents but all possibilities should be considered.
 

This information produced by a company marketing an isoxazoline-based treatment in Europe provides a balanced consideration of the risks and explains why product information sheets for isoxazoline based treatments contain warnings about seizures:

 

”In September 2018, the FDA released an alert warning veterinarians and pet owners that animals receiving isoxazoline antiparasitics had been experiencing muscle tremors, ataxia, and seizures.¹⁰ During safety studies conducted during sarolaner drug approval, some 8-week-old beagles receiving 3 times and 5 times the upper end of the recommended dose (i.e., 12 mg/kg and 20 mg/kg, respectively) every 28 days for 10 doses exhibited seizures, tremors, and ataxia, which mostly resolved by the time the dogs reached 6 months of age, except for 1 dog with abnormal head coordination after dose 6, which led to the drug being approved only for dogs 6 months of age and older.¹ In a field effectiveness study of 315 dogs, 1 dog exhibited lethargy, ataxia, elevated third eyelids, and inappetence 1 day after receiving sarolaner concurrently with ivermectin/pyrantel pamoate; these signs resolved within 24 hours.¹ The prevalence of and potential risk factors for neurologic adverse effects are currently unknown, but the FDA maintains that isoxazolines are still safe for most animals.^10,11 Additional research is needed to further characterize the nature and prevalence of these adverse neurologic events, and the FDA is asking manufacturers to revise their product labels to include potential neurologic side effects and cautioning veterinarians to use discretion when prescribing drugs in this class.^10,11”

 

 

in every instance I have seen a pup affected by the seizures, (in pups I had warned the new owners this product can cause seizures and or kill their pup) { In every pup affected there was just one dose . not overdosed as described in the experimental research} The vets who recommended it has in every instance told the owner the parents of the pup must have passed on epilepsy and to bill the breeder and demand a refund of the price of the "defective pup". none have admitted the drug is the cause

. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by asal

[coneye]

On 22/10/2023 at 8:00 PM, asal said:

 

 

in every instance I have seen a pup affected by the seizures, (in pups I had warned the new owners this product can cause seizures and or kill their pup) { In every pup affected there was just one dose . not overdosed as described in the experimental research} The vets who recommended it has in every instance told the owner the parents of the pup must have passed on epilepsy and to bill the breeder and demand a refund of the price of the "defective pup". none have admitted the drug is the cause

. 

It makes me wonder why them vets would use this drug , then the cinic  in me thinks , Mmmm , kickbacks . and for anyone who does'nt believe it happens in the animal world , WHYNOT it certainly happens in the human world with doctors

[asal]

I learned of its killing ability after a friends pups were treated. of the 7 pups in the litter 4 began fitting, two recovered in a few weeks the other two were still suffering  problems months later, of them one recovered the other the vet put down as it was still unable to walk after two months, He called her some 4 months later to tell her that the Bravecto had killed over 20 of his clients dogs since he had been using it after its initial release and to never use it as he was now positive the drug is lethal to a percentage of dogs treated with it. If it crossed the blood brain barrier there is no antidote.

 

I saw a chart that the FDA in America had compiled of death percentages of drugs used on dogs and how many had died to that date .  think it had hit 7,000 and that is only the figures sent by the vets who did recognise the reason .

 

I remember the company defending it by saying none of the dogs died from the drug, the vets put them down. which was correct. they were put down as their quality of life had become non existent even if they were alive

Edited October 28, 2023 by asal

[Deeds]

Is it only Bravecto that is the problem or is it all the 3 in one flea & worm medications such as Comfortis, Nexgard  & Simparica. 

 

All of products seem to contain isoxazoline.

[asal]

19 hours ago, Deeds said:

Is it only Bravecto that is the problem or is it all the 3 in one flea & worm medications such as Comfortis, Nexgard  & Simparica. 

 

All of products seem to contain isooxazoline.

 

yes they are the same risk factor.

 

Bravecto was the first on the market . Simparica killed one I bred and almost killed another only weeks after I had warned their new owners not to use any with that in it.  One forgot the warning, the other, shockingly their vet gave it to him when he went in for his second vaccination without even asking them.  They thought he was giving him a treat, didn't realise what it was until they saw it listed on the bill. He began fitting that night. he took 3 months to recover and the fits finally stopped.  At least with him they came and went. the other puppies brain was so damaged she had to be put down, neither vet admitted the drug was responsible and put the blame on the breeder.  Despite them telling the vets I had warned them this drug family of  isooxazoline has killed before

Edited October 29, 2023 by asal

[Deeds]

The only tablet that doesn't contain isoxazoline is Comfortis and that's been discontinued.  Comfortis Plus also doesn't contain Isoxazoline.

 

I think I'll stay with Advantage.  After having a dog with cluster seizures I never want to go through that again.  Not worth the risk and just terrible watching a dog having a seizure.

[Mairead]

Report Adverse Experience here:

http://apvma.gov.au/node/86336

US info here:

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/animal-health-literacy/fact-sheet-pet-owners-and-veterinarians-about-potential-adverse-events-associated-isoxazoline-flea

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Mairead
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