Choose your breeder very carefully.

[Dogs are family]

This is advice to potential puppy buyers, after my 2 bad experiences, over 2 dogs, from same breeder. I would like to offer some advice based on what I have experienced, and what I would do next time if I had to choose another breeder, if at all. I am offering this in the hope that other potential puppy buyers avoid large financial costs re health problems. 

1...Check out your potential breeder on Facebook. If they DO NOT have a FB page, ask yourself whyyyyyyy. Just do not go by their website or advertising on different sites like this one. Absolutely no disrepect meant to  this site. There are some very honest, and ethical breeders to be found here I have found out since.  Trust me, as good as the breeder looks, sounds on the phone or how good their dog's look, that can also hold dishonest information. Unfortunately there are breeders out there, that give the honest and ethical breeders a very bad name. Quite often breeders are not in your state and you cannot view litter. In my case, 1st litter in my state, not far from home, but still was not allowed to view.  

2...Always ask for a contract or something in writing with signature, re refund of deposits should something go wrong at either end. EG If for some reason you cannot go through with your purchase due to a valid reason, Not simply because you changed your mind. EG At breeders end, a timeframe of supplying pup to you, whether that pup is what you originally asked for. Eg, you specified a Long Coat , you know exactly what typical balls of fluff look like in that breed, but what they are trying to sell you, does not fit that description. 

3... If you have heard on the grapevine, bad reviews or reports about this breeder, LISTEN carefully and heed advice. The breeder I have dealt with has been very deceitful involving a number of buyers. There is actual evidence of that. You could even contact the State bodies  in your state, eg Dogs Victoria and ask has there been any reports / breaches re your selected breeder. 

4...If your pup is confirmed with a defect within the 1st year, any genuine ethical breeder, should provide a replacement pup. But the problem there is, most owners will be attached to their new family member, so the likes of the following, should state similar in writing. EG, Any inherited /Genetic defects, Hip Dysplasia, heart murmurs, jaw defects the breeder should be more than happy to cover the financial costs of treatment, should there be any. Especially if that breeder is known to breed a large number of litters regularly, and there is confirmation of a defect already at 14 wks. Yes pups can grow out of some defects, but unfortunately some get worse with time, and the quality of life of that pup is greatly affected as a few of us have experienced.

5...If your breeder becomes defensive Eg you are asking for a refund, you know that breeder has had problems before. In my case, as much we did not want to lose a $1000 of our hard earned money, we would have been $9000 better off. And that is to date only, and does not include purchase price.

6...If you request pedigree papers from parents, Hip and Elbow scores etc, pictures of parents or other progeny, they should be able provide that immediately, or at least within a week. Beware,..........if they are not, and continual excuses of delays. Yes I understand on the odd occasion, breeder may not be able to, but not on a regular basis.  

7... A breeder should not ask for balance of payment 2 mths before puppy due to arrive in your family. I was told I would lose my place in a litter (already had placed a $1000 deposit 6 mths before), if I did not pay in full(another $3000, 2 mths prior. Both payments had to be paid within a  24 hr period. 

8... Ask the time frame for receiving pedigree papers. With 1st dog took 15mths to transfer into my name and receive pedigree papers. 2nd pup is now 12 mths old and still no papers sighted.  

Conclusion, be very mindful of which breeder you choose, do your homework exceptionally well. Just because they sound honest, does not necessarily mean that they are.  A breeder should always be very transparent in their bloodlines with lot's of pictures, information, reports etc and reply to calls, texts, emails in a timely manor also. Not in a few weeks time.

CONCLUSION: dealing with this breeder has been an exceptionally bad experience, never before have I been through this with any other breeder in my time. It has been most stressful emotionally and financially, most challenging, and been a significant amount of intimidation by them, to add to the drama. This is not just a one person experience either. Several people have made a complaint re this breeder to the state body in our states, re the codes they breached. We are then having to take the matter further. Wishing you all the very best of luck with all your future puppy purchases and hope they are healthy and happy and able to live out their full lives. The vast majority will be healthy puppies, but there unfortunately is a minority that will not be, and breeders should be responsible financially for/or replace those. I cannot expose the name of breeder for obvious reasons. 

[BDJ]

I agree that it is best to be very careful.   As with anything there will always be those who take advantage if situations and scenarios

 

Personally I think that some of the information is very pointed to a single breeder/customer relationship, but the general flavour is good (when it comes to ideas and points to make you think with head rather than head).

 

I am not commenting on what is right re the health side of it.    Very emotive (understandable) - but I dont like blanket statements.  A breeder has the ability to do their due diligence re bloodlines and raise a pup well.  BUT - they cant control what happens when a pup leaves their home and it needs to be remembered that they only observe a pup for a few weeks.   Owners take a risk when buying a pup.   A living critter (human, dog or earthworm) is subject to a huge range of things which can go wrong, and I dont think that something with a pulse can be completely guaranteed for ANY period of time 

 

I dont agree with the FB comment though.   Not all breeders are on social media, and I dont think that is a good indicator - especially when we have all experienced fake on FB (and other social media).

 

A friend of mine wanted a pup a couple of years ago and contacted a breeder I knew 20 years ago.   She rang me a few times seeking assurance as the breeder was 'vague, slow to respond, didnt share a lot of pics' etc etc.   This was purely because the breeder wasnt tech savvy, didnt use any social media, and had a heck of a lot going on.    Thankfully my friend trusted my endorsement and sat back - and realised that not everyone managed their life the same way they did and 'different' was not 'wrong' - she now has a dog she absolutely adores and is exactly what she wanted.

 

So - wrapping up, I think the above are all good points to read, but it is not all logical to take on completely face value.

[Princess Fru Fru]

If you had issues with the breeder the first time around, why would you go back again for your second puppy?

 

1 hour ago, Dogs are family said:

1...Check out your potential breeder on Facebook. If they DO NOT have a FB page, ask yourself whyyyyyyy.

There are many breeders without social media and that doesn't make them breeders to avoid and you're failing to acknowledge the average age of many dog breeders (often in the 70+ years category) that often makes them technologically inept.

 

I'm in no way saying that you're wrong in stating there are bad apples out there (because I know of many), however, part of the reason why they still exist, is the "have to have a puppy now" culture.  Buyers these days aren't content to wait for the right puppy, which in turn limits the amount of due diligence possible.  The general public don't want to build years'-long relationship (example) with their chosen breeder prior to brining a puppy home as puppy buying is seen little more than a "I want a puppy, pays in full, puppy comes home no questions asked" fast transaction.

 

Perhaps if people spent more time actively getting to know their breeder as a close friend/mentor type relationship, there'd be less chance of being duped.

 

1 hour ago, Dogs are family said:

2...Always ask for a contract or something in writing with signature, re refund of deposits should something go wrong at either end.

This is already covered under Australian consumer law refunds, repairs and replacements.  Like it or not, animals are considered "goods" and until such time as that changes, then you need to remove the emotion from the equation.  A breeder is not obligated to offer you a refund, unless as covered under consumer law.

 

1 hour ago, Dogs are family said:

Eg, you specified a Long Coat , you know exactly what typical balls of fluff look like in that breed, but what they are trying to sell you, does not fit that description.

This actually falls on you as the purchaser.  If there are no long-coated puppies in the litter, of course the breeder will still offer you something as you've expressed interest.  The question remains, why would you still go through with the purchase if you don't want the puppy?  Simply say "sorry, but my heart is still on a long-coat" and either walk away, or ask to be added to a future litter list.

 

1 hour ago, Dogs are family said:

3... If you have heard on the grapevine, bad reviews or reports about this breeder, LISTEN carefully and heed advice.

Ah yes, the grapevine where there's no such thing as sour grapes.

 

Again, I'm not saying this is the case with the breeder of whom you speak, however, not all rumours are true.  As a puppy buyer, do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

 

1 hour ago, Dogs are family said:

5...If your breeder becomes defensive Eg you are asking for a refund, you know that breeder has had problems before.

Breeders are not obliged to offer refunds unless required, as covered under ACL.

 

1 hour ago, Dogs are family said:

7... A breeder should not ask for balance of payment 2 mths before puppy due to arrive in your family. I was told I would lose my place in a litter (already had placed a $1000 deposit 6 mths before), if I did not pay in full(another $3000, 2 mths prior. Both payments had to be paid within a  24 hr period. 

It honestly sounds like you had some serious doubts by this stage in the process, so I question why you'd put all those niggling feelings aside and continue.  You aren't completely faultless in this scenario and there are red flags on both sides.

 

1 hour ago, Dogs are family said:

8... Ask the time frame for receiving pedigree papers. With 1st dog took 15mths to transfer into my name and receive pedigree papers. 2nd pup is now 12 mths old and still no papers sighted.

Absolutely.  In NSW for example, even though it costs a whole lot more, a breeder might choose to not register their puppies until over 36 months as per the Dogs NSW Scale of Charges.  If this is what the breeder has chosen, then yes, they should be disclosing this at time of sale.

 

Sometimes there might be unforeseen issues registering the puppies with the state member body, however, again, the breeder should be keeping their puppy buyers informed.  It doesn't take that long to send a simple "Sorry, there's some administration issues with your puppy's registration but we're working it out" email.

 

[Mairead]

Most breeders would have stories of the puppy buyers who deceived them and the puppy ended up dead, ruined or passed on to someone else without their knowledge.

[coneye]

Suppose  if i came to buy one i would have an hard time nowadays , in the past i've bought of breeders its been a simple case of scour every where to see who has any pups , then when i've found someone i go have a look ,  if it looks good i buy  ,  once i was asked for a deposit  , because  it was 8 weeks old and the breeder flatly refused to let me take him until 10 weeks old , said breeder was'nt fussed if i bought or not but wanted the deposit   or   risk selling him to someone else who came along with the deposit .. I paid the deposit simply because i was impressed with the dog and the breeder especielly the fact that she would'nt let him go til 10 weeks old .

 

Suppose times are different now  , but  paying up front for ANYTHING to me would be a definete NO NO ,

[Deeds]

Even with the best of research and information good and reliable breeders can get undesirable traits in a litter. 

 

Even with the best of intentions you can get bad or undesirable temperaments in a litter.

 

Especially purchasing dogs from overseas or using imported semen.

[asal]

21 hours ago, Deeds said:

Even with the best of research and information good and reliable breeders can get undesirable traits in a litter. 

 

Even with the best of intentions you can get bad or undesirable temperaments in a litter.

 

Especially purchasing dogs from overseas or using imported semen.

 

Very true, my vet once said, considering all the things that can go wrong from conception when one cell is dividing into millions to create a puppy the miracle is so few go wrong and so many turn out fine.

 

As well the puppy CAN be perfect, but if the new owners vet needs money, guess what?  16 week puppy their vet says might need  operation for luxating patella both legs then says at six months needs operated on now, and the idiot buyer doesn't call me or the vet who vaccinated it at 12 weeks, to ask didn't my vet pick up on any problems with the patella's?  Gives their vet the go ahead AND after the op hits me with the vet bill?   No competent vet would operate on a puppy that young let alone one my vet had examined at six and 12 weeks and had perfect patella's (I had intended to keep her, but decided to let the buyer have her as she had lost her dog to an accident and very distressed, So let her have her since it was the mums first litter, So could keep one from the next litter for myself.  My vets comment at the time, was "I bet he had a payment due on his new car."

Edited October 11, 2023 by asal

[asal]

Another friend was told by the new owner the puppy needed $7,000 surgery for luxating elbows??????? Either transfer the money now to their vet or face court action!

 

Luckily the op hadn't yet been done, told her to demand the puppy be presented to her for for 2nd opinion.

 

Result, puppy found to have had both elbowed fractured!

Turned out they had let a 6 month old Labrador puppy jump off a veranda 8 feet to the ground!

 

Although the distress caused to my friend by the owner and her family even after they learned the damage was NOT inherited or her fault.

Meant she never bred another litter.

Just couldn't cope with the distress caused or the abuse she received before the truth came out.

Edited October 11, 2023 by asal

[Dogs are family]

I am absolutely shocked by these responses to my post.  Some of you  with accusations of writing untruths or being told I myself as a new owner of a defective pup is being deceitful. . I simply thought I would give some helpful advice, to make people aware, picking a breeder is not done on a whim. . I cannot give out evidence in this thread, and I cannot name breeder, as much as I would love to. Yes, is one breeder though. There have been complaints lodged by several people to the State bodies, VCAT and Lawyers enacted in these cases. This is not over a number of years either. I guess it is the world we live in today, that people feel they get by, by criticizing others, when they in actual fact, cannot present evidence to substantiate their claims. We all have  actual evidence in our cases, as well as reports from a number of Vets and Specialists. We do not all reside in the same state.  To those of you who have made these statements, it is very sad that you choose to target owners, and not have any compassion for the animals especially that are suffering.

As I said earlier, I simply only wanted to help people, so hopefully they could avoid finding themselves in a most stressful situation with their new family members. Renal failure and a grade 4 heart murmur do not come from injuries. Nor do 2 dogs from the same litter, that live in 2 different families and hrs apart, end up with a jaw defect from injury. There is so much more to these cases. If you had the full information, none of you would have responded with contempt, instead, you yourselves would be most alarmed at the actual evidence. .    

[Dogs are family]

23 hours ago, coneye said:

Suppose  if i came to buy one i would have an hard time nowadays , in the past i've bought of breeders its been a simple case of scour every where to see who has any pups , then when i've found someone i go have a look ,  if it looks good i buy  ,  once i was asked for a deposit  , because  it was 8 weeks old and the breeder flatly refused to let me take him until 10 weeks old , said breeder was'nt fussed if i bought or not but wanted the deposit   or   risk selling him to someone else who came along with the deposit .. I paid the deposit simply because i was impressed with the dog and the breeder especielly the fact that she would'nt let him go til 10 weeks old .

 

Suppose times are different now  , but  paying up front for ANYTHING to me would be a definete NO NO ,

If there is actual evidence, problems are arising out of your bloodlines, any ethical breeder would seriously look into these issues. It is a breach of code by the State bodies to continue breeding these lines. 

[Dogs are family]

On 10/10/2023 at 1:26 PM, Princess Fru Fru said:

If you had issues with the breeder the first time around, why would you go back again for your second puppy?

 

There are many breeders without social media and that doesn't make them breeders to avoid and you're failing to acknowledge the average age of many dog breeders (often in the 70+ years category) that often makes them technologically inept.

 

I'm in no way saying that you're wrong in stating there are bad apples out there (because I know of many), however, part of the reason why they still exist, is the "have to have a puppy now" culture.  Buyers these days aren't content to wait for the right puppy, which in turn limits the amount of due diligence possible.  The general public don't want to build years'-long relationship (example) with their chosen breeder prior to brining a puppy home as puppy buying is seen little more than a "I want a puppy, pays in full, puppy comes home no questions asked" fast transaction.

 

Perhaps if people spent more time actively getting to know their breeder as a close friend/mentor type relationship, there'd be less chance of being duped.

 

This is already covered under Australian consumer law refunds, repairs and replacements.  Like it or not, animals are considered "goods" and until such time as that changes, then you need to remove the emotion from the equation.  A breeder is not obligated to offer you a refund, unless as covered under consumer law.

 

This actually falls on you as the purchaser.  If there are no long-coated puppies in the litter, of course the breeder will still offer you something as you've expressed interest.  The question remains, why would you still go through with the purchase if you don't want the puppy?  Simply say "sorry, but my heart is still on a long-coat" and either walk away, or ask to be added to a future litter list.

 

Ah yes, the grapevine where there's no such thing as sour grapes.

 

Again, I'm not saying this is the case with the breeder of whom you speak, however, not all rumours are true.  As a puppy buyer, do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

 

Breeders are not obliged to offer refunds unless required, as covered under ACL.

 

It honestly sounds like you had some serious doubts by this stage in the process, so I question why you'd put all those niggling feelings aside and continue.  You aren't completely faultless in this scenario and there are red flags on both sides.

 

Absolutely.  In NSW for example, even though it costs a whole lot more, a breeder might choose to not register their puppies until over 36 months as per the Dogs NSW Scale of Charges.  If this is what the breeder has chosen, then yes, they should be disclosing this at time of sale.

 

Sometimes there might be unforeseen issues registering the puppies with the state member body, however, again, the breeder should be keeping their puppy buyers informed.  It doesn't take that long to send a simple "Sorry, there's some administration issues with your puppy's registration but we're working it out" email.

 

The 1st issue I wasn't aware of as being inherited when 2nd deposit paid. That was a re ascending testicle at 7 mths old. So I had placed a dep for 2nd pup. You posters out there must have a money tree out back. I did not want to lose my $1000. Only one of us is able to work in our household. It is only of late that all these issues with other dogs have come to light. Who of you would of let your $1000 go, because breeder demanded balance of $3000,  2 mths before pup being available at 8 wks. I believe many of you would pay the money, but not be happy about it. I had full trust in the breeders at that time. A pup was allocated to me after litter being temperament tested at 6 wks. I was awaiting information on flight dates and times, when instead I was informed my pup had died at 7 wks according to breeder. I absolutely did ask for the full amount back, and in this case they should have followed through with reimbursement. I simply did not change my mind. I am sure most of you would have to agree with that. They flatly refused reimbursement. Now that pup died in their home, not in mine, as some of you are actually insinuating about other people. So to those that say I am partly to blame, how do you honestly work that out.    

[asal]

2 hours ago, Dogs are family said:

The 1st issue I wasn't aware of as being inherited when 2nd deposit paid. That was a re ascending testicle at 7 mths old. So I had placed a dep for 2nd pup. You posters out there must have a money tree out back. I did not want to lose my $1000. Only one of us is able to work in our household. It is only of late that all these issues with other dogs have come to light. Who of you would of let your $1000 go, because breeder demanded balance of $3000,  2 mths before pup being available at 8 wks. I believe many of you would pay the money, but not be happy about it. I had full trust in the breeders at that time. A pup was allocated to me after litter being temperament tested at 6 wks. I was awaiting information on flight dates and times, when instead I was informed my pup had died at 7 wks according to breeder. I absolutely did ask for the full amount back, and in this case they should have followed through with reimbursement. I simply did not change my mind. I am sure most of you would have to agree with that. They flatly refused reimbursement. Now that pup died in their home, not in mine, as some of you are actually insinuating about other people. So to those that say I am partly to blame, how do you honestly work that out.    

 

 

I am sure if you had applied to the tribunal, cant remember what its called but there is an ombudsman you can appeal to hear the case and make a ruling. that breeder would have had to give you your money back. I have been breeding since 1979 and a deposit is just that. Honestly no  breeder I know would tell you the deposit is not refundable if circumstances caused you to change your mind. Well I would and so would my friends, its just a deposit of good faith to hold the pup until ready to pick up. ALSO never pay a deposit on an unborn pup, nor should you pay a deposit on a puppy under 4 weeks so much can go wrong under that age. Although I have had some so want to put a deposit on  one under 4 weeks in which case they seem happy with a 50 refundable. but if for any reason you cannot go through with the purchase the only caveat I put is I will return the refund when the pup has been sold, as usually u have spent most of available funds raising them . Not one of us would want a puppy to go to someone who has for whatever reason no longer wants it.......   As for a puppy that died, unreal, money back on the spot 

Edited October 11, 2023 by asal

[Rebanne]

It's a bit hard saying you didn't like the responses when you then say "if you knew the full story".

 

So your first puppy you didn't even get? It died at 7 weeks from renal failure? And your 2nd one died from a heart murmur?

[Mairead]

Your first post here was to complain.

If you turned up as a new member of a club and spent the whole time complaining, what sort of reception do you think you would get?

[Princess Fru Fru]

14 hours ago, Dogs are family said:

That was a re ascending testicle at 7 mths old. So I had placed a dep for 2nd pup.

 

No one can predict cryptorchidism with 100% certainty and the fact you placed a deposit on a second pup the instant this issue arose indicates that you're wanting a male to breed with, otherwise why else would an undescended testicle matter so much?

 

The fact that you also placed a deposit on a second pup so quickly without asking additional questions of the breeder such as "has cryptorchidism ever occurred in your lines before?" indicates that you were, for some reason, desperate for a replacement immediately.

 

Why?  Why not just desex your pup at 7 months and enjoy him unless there is more to your story than you've shared?

 

14 hours ago, Dogs are family said:

You posters out there must have a money tree out back. I did not want to lose my $1000. Only one of us is able to work in our household.

I certainly don't have a money tree anywhere, but again, this is something you've agreed to take on when purchasing a puppy.  If you can't afford the purchase price, how are you going to afford the ongoing care of not just one, but now two dogs?  The purchase price is actually the cheapest part of owning a dog and as a single income household, this is something you should've considered prior to buying your puppies.

 

This is all part of pet ownership and something that must be considered.  Unfortunately with the increasing cost of living, owning a pet and the expenses that come with it, are fast becoming a luxury that not everyone can afford.

 

You haven't specified the breed, but it sounds like a breed that is known to have health issues (Frenchies and Cavaliers come to mind), so perhaps your chosen breed wasn't the best choice for you.  Sometimes health problems just happen regardless of how detailed health testing the breeder does. Mother nature is mother nature and unfortunately even with careful planning, some genetic lines are just incompatible and throw curveballs and the same happens in humans too.

 

Again, this is all something to be considered before buying a dog.

 

14 hours ago, Dogs are family said:

Who of you would of let your $1000 go, because breeder demanded balance of $3000,  2 mths before pup being available at 8 wks.

Well personally, I wouldn't pay anything for an unborn puppy nor would I pay in full for a puppy the second it's born (2 months is essentially 8 weeks).  My breeders have only ever asked for full payment by the time of pick up or prior to shipment (if pup is being flown).

 

14 hours ago, Dogs are family said:

So to those that say I am partly to blame, how do you honestly work that out.

Unfortunately fault does lie on both sides and I'm honestly not trying to pick on you or make you feel bad, but rather to help you see that there are things you could've done differently, questions you could've asked, before proceeding with the second pup.

 

This is what makes purchasing a puppy difficult.  In the eyes of the law they are treated no differently to a washing machine, however, as they're a living, breathing animal, human emotion comes into play a lot more and it's difficult to take a step back and treat the process clinically and without the emotion.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Princess Fru Fru

[DogsAndTheMob]

I’m so sorry you have had such unhappy experiences! 
 

I’m not a breeder and never have been but I have owned and adored 11 pedigree dogs (if my finger-count is correct  )and I’ve been involved in dog sports for many years. I can’t agree with everything in your first post. Looking at your points sequentially…

 

1. Huh? Since when has a FaceBook presence been evidence of ethical behaviour? Anyone can set up a FaceBook account.

 

2. That sounds reasonable in theory, but I’m not sure how useful a contract is in practice. I don’t insist on a contract because I suspect the costs of enforcing it would be greater than any probable refund or compensation. When my 14 week old puppy died of congenital kidney disease, the breeder refunded the cost of the puppy, despite the lack of a contract.

 

3. Of course you should listen to what people say, with the caveat that not every complaint is founded in truth and common sense.

 

4. The appropriate response to a defect will vary. For example, the heritability of hip dysplasia has been estimated at between 20% and 80%, depending on breed and method of measurement. https://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/an-update-on-hip-dysplasia-in-dogs This means that up to 80% of cases are caused or substantially influenced by environmental factors or chance, or would not be diagnosed as hip dysplasia if a different diagnostic method was used. Should a breeder be asked to compensate for a defect that may have developed by chance or because the owner failed to appropriately balance the calcium:phosphorus ratio in the puppy’s diet? When one of my dogs scored poorly in the AVA/ORCHID hip scoring scheme, I did not ask for compensation.
 

It’s also important to remember that many breeders producing the best dogs are hobbyists, making do on limited incomes, and any “profit” from their litters is spent breeding better dogs or proving the quality of their dogs. They simply don’t have the money to cover unlimited veterinary costs. When my puppy was diagnosed with congenital kidney disease, I was quoted $12,000 for Emergency weekend care and specialist veterinary examination BEFORE any treatment commenced. With no likelihood that the puppy would survive, I opted for euthanasia, but I certainly would not have presented the breeder with a $12,000+ bill and demanded payment. Nor did I ask the breeder to pay my actual costs of over $1000. When I purchase a puppy, I accept that it is a living thing that does not come off a production line providing identical items of identical quality. I do my best to ensure that the breeder is following best practices and breeding quality dogs. There is no more that I or the breeders can do.

 

5. Yes, breeders should refund deposits promptly if they are unable to provide a puppy as agreed. 
 

6. Breeders should be able to show documentary evidence that they are ANKC (Dogs Australia) members and breeders, and that the parents of the litter have Main Register pedigree certificates as well as all health testing and scoring recommended for the breed. They should provide photos of the puppy’s parents and related dogs, and of the puppies if available. They should also be able to talk knowledgeably about the breed, their breeding program and how they raise their puppies. This discussion is also an opportunity for the purchaser to assess whether whether the breeder’s goals align with what they want.
 

I prefer to see the parents (and ideally related dogs) before I commit to purchasing a puppy, particularly if I don’t know the pedigree well. If the breeder has concerns about bringing strangers into their home, perhaps the purchaser could meet up with them at a dog show or elsewhere.

 

7. I would not pay a deposit on a puppy that had not been born. Nor would I pay the full amount more than a week before the collection date.

 

8. Under normal circumstances, I would not expect to wait more than a couple of months for papers. In fact, on most occasions the breeder has provided the pedigree certificates when I collected the puppy. However, I have heard of delays occurring in Queensland as a result of problems with the mandatory DNA parentage testing.

Edited October 12, 2023 by DogsAndTheMob

[Deeds]

I've had a pup with an undescended testicle.  There were 3 males in the litter all with undescended testicles.  Probably hereditary.  On Vet's advice I had the dog neutered.

 

2nd disaster was a pup with Renal Dysplasia.  Also probably hereditary.  I still have this dog 7 years on. 

 

3rd disaster was from a breeder I had known for 20 years or more.  Never had a pup from them before.  The breeder is well known for healthy and good temperament dogs.  I have seen them in the show ring many times.

 

Not withstanding this last dog is a nightmare.  I have spent a lot of money on professional training etc.  This dog (all the same breed) is the 10th I have owned and is completely different to all of my other dogs.  I have put it down to one of the parents being an imported dog. This is the first litter from the imported dog.

 

I paid full price for all of the above and just worked around the health & temperament problems.  The last dog is still a pup and is still a work in progress.

 

So out of 10 dogs over 30 or so years I have had health problems with 2 dogs and a temperament problem with one dog.   Pretty usual dog owner experience I would say.

 

 

[Lhok]

Yes I agree there are really shoddy breeders in the pedigree world.

It was because of my experience with a shoddy breeder that I left a breed that I much admired and adored. After my first pup from them died of Renal dysplasia and the necropsy came back with a damning report of how badly bred the dog was and I sent that report to the kennel club of the breeder belonged to which they replied not our problem its a civil one (I have a feeling nepotism might have played a role here but this is just my own views about it) when I asked them to investigate their breeding practices. Upon my own investigation of the issue and looking at pedigrees and other owners getting in touch with me about their dogs having issues and how they were scared of the breeder I figured it was better to cut my loses with the breed given the breeder is influential. A side note,  I wanted a refund but I was talked into getting a replacement dog from this breeder and the replacement dog I got came with Addison's disease and so after my finances had almost been bled dry I had to send the dog back to the breeder, who promptly told the person who they rehomed the dog to that it was a rescue dog and I didn't care about it and mistreated the dog. They also didn't mention the dog had serious issues and cost the new owner many thousands to save its life. So I get it there are dog breeders out there that are savage and only care about themselves. 

However! 

My new dog, is amazing he has been healthy and the breeder of him has restored much of my faith in dog breeding. I couldn't have asked for a better breeder than that of my boy. I have seen how she cares about the breed and works with other breeders to be custodians of the breed. Poles apart from the breeder I went to in the other breed, I'm not trying to blame all the breeders in the other breed its just it is hard to for myself to justify sticking with a breed that I have had such an experience with and heartbreak from.

The issue I find is and its a horrible one is that no matter in some cases how well you do your homework you can still be duped by a bad breeder and bad breeding practices.  I am not sure how to fix the issue without it becoming harder for the good breeders out there who are doing a lot of good and for the most part are stretched thin.