New puppy

[MegNZ]

Thanks for the info re the thumbnail app and Dog Star Daily. I've been sick with a cold/strep throat the past 4 days and no sign I'm moving through it yet. Very unlike me to get a cold, this is my 3rd, maybe 4th, my whole life (61 years). 

 

I've been reading through a few of the pinned threads. The socialization and neutralization one is very interesting, minus the incessant bickering and sniping going on between a couple of the contributors. When it comes to socializing, I can see the benefits of a dog viewing things as neutral, rather than positive, or God forbid negative. It's got me thinking about how I will introduce Sophi to new dogs. There is a loose group of us that meet up at a local park at around 5pm with our dogs off lead. The group consists of about 20 regulars with 4-8 of us being there on any given day. I'd like to introduce Sophi to new dogs very differently than I did with Lulu, partly to teach her dogs/new dogs aren't super exciting and partly to protect her from negative/harmful interactions. I've ended up having to do a lot of work with Lulu to teach her to greet dogs/new dogs calmly and it's going to be an ongoing work in progress for quite a while to come. Plus she's had some really negative experiences with a few dogs that I'm sure have affected her.

 

Living with Lulu means Sophi is already a bit of a doggy dog at home (looking to Lulu to as a resource to satisfy needs for play, relationship etc) so I'm going to need to do and keep doing a lot of work to keep me as her number one, not Lulu. Ditto Lulu with me as her number one, not Sophi. My friend Ruby (who lives with me) has a 13 year old staffy girl who is very disinterested in Sophi so Sophi is having one experience of "neutralization" with a dog. 

 

The info on fear periods is timely (approx 12-16 weeks according to one of the threads). I'm now glad I am in a lot of pain and sick and she isn't fully vaccinated because it's prevented me from exposing her to all sorts of everything in the middle of a fear period when I didn't know one happens between approx 12-16 weeks! And she's most definitely in this fear period judging by her behaviour when I've taken her up on the driveway and street a couple of times to watch, listen, and sniff about. Tail tucked, darting movements, crouched a bit low etc. Thankfully I've kept it very low key, not asking anything of her. Just standing still when she doesn't want to move and moving with her keeping the leash loose when she's wanted to sniff. And quietly feeding kibble when she's wanted to eat some.

 

I really like the Triangle of Temptation training/exercise. I do some of it already (have done for years) but I think it's worth doing every step in the exercise to achieve the best results. I just need to figure out how to do it in the physical space I live in - hoping Sophi doesn't need too many yards between her and her food bowl to achieve the mind state the post writer describes.

 

All in all things are going well. I'm looking forward to not being sick though, I ache all over and am nonstop exhausted. Makes life with a 15 week old pup and 20 month old "pup" very hard. They are on the go way more than I can handle right now lol. Yay for crates and stuffed kongs and yay for Ruby upstairs for Lulu to go hang out with some of the time. 

 

 

 

[Mairead]

If you are up for more reading you might want to have a look at the thread a bit below this one "I've purchase[d] a deaf puppy, what now?".

The OP is thinking of getting another dog of the same sex and that can be a problem. Just preparing you.

[MegNZ]

Thanks Mairead. So far I've been fortunate with my female dogs, they've always gotten along great together. A very occasional squabble over a food resource in the distant past but nothing more than that. The only dog on dog aggression issue I've had has been a female dog (mine - a lab/border collie) hitting puberty and challenging a 8 or so year old male fox terrier in the house (teeth involved, mostly hers, no damage done tho). My partner (owner of the fox terrier) and I called in a trainer (who, I see now, was unfortunately next to useless). We didn't know how to handle it, just couldn't get past the difference in size between the 2 dogs, and we ended up keeping the 2 dogs separated for years (until the relationship ended).

 

Bit by bit I've learnt prevention/management is better than a cure so now I make sure whatever dogs live in my home are always fed separately, food bowls are immediately removed, washed and stored out of reach, and the dogs are crated for things like rawhide chews, bully sticks etc. 

 

But fights can happen for all sorts of reasons, not just food resources, so I will need to be on my guard. My thoughts so far are: I need to provide clear, definite leadership, I need to make sure both dogs receive adequate exercise to keep them reasonably drained, I need to make sure both get one on one time with me playing and training, I need to make sure neither have free access to a toy/resource they consider valuable, regarding training I need to make sure both dogs have a very solid recall, leave it, drop, sit or down stay and settle/place. What have I missed? 

 

Lulu is still a young dog at only 20 months old so I can't speak for her temperament and behaviour once fully mature, but I can say that right now she doesn't have a mean or possessive bone in her body. I cannot, however, speak for Sophi because she is so young still. I've read a lot about the (known) breeds in Sophi's mix (rottie, bullmastiff, amstaff) but I'm pretty sure the sites online that speak positively about them are describing traits in a well-balanced dog (well balanced due to good genetics and good life experiences). I have no idea, at this point, if Sophi is going to be a well-balanced dog. If she is, I've got a real cracker of a dog like Lulu. If she isn't I have my work cut out for me. I don't think her breeds work against her, it's just that she will be a large, very powerful dog. An e.g. fox terrier going ape sh*t on the leash when it sees another dog is a very different prospect to a 30+ kg dog doing it. An e.g. fox terrier racing about doing zoomies in close proximity to people is a very different prospect to a 30+ kg dog doing that.

 

 

 

[MegNZ]

Looking at a bunch of different weight charts for a female pup of each breed Sophi is currently amstaff weight for her age, a bit under rottie weight and quite a bit under bullmastiff weight. 

[Mairead]

You looking at weights reminded me of the story of a man waiting patiently in a rescue organisation's waiting room with a large well behaved black and white dog.

The staff member had all day taken in unwanted dogs. "Reason for surrender?" she asked.

"What? No!" the man replied. "We all love him, but we thought you might want to see what a fox terrier cross looks like when it grows up". Yes he had got the dog from them.

[MegNZ]

Haha!! Yea, I look at the breed/s given by rescue agencies and the council pounds. Most of them are complete guesses unless they 100% know the breed/s of the parents. Sophi's dad may even be a guess by his owners. He was very definitely part rottie (unmistakable looking at his head) but who knows what he is really crossed with. He was male rottie in size and black all over (no rottie tan, rust or mahogany markings). He had quite a deep muzzle, not particularly rottie looking but definitely not bullmastiff looking either, so the bullmastiff part might not even be true. A black lab/rottie mix fits much better with the dog I met and would possibly account for the shape of his muzzle. But who knows!! 

 

Mum was definitely amstaff but quite a stocky heavy set one, especially for a dog that had recently carried, delivered and fed 14 puppies. 

 

Maybe I'll fork out for a DNA testing kit if curiosity gets the better of me.

 

 

[Mairead]

DNA tests are only as good as the database they have. For dogs and for humans. 

A friend who is adopted had some Basque ancestry until the results were updated later and that part of his ancestry had disappeared. Another friend with Aboriginal ancestry was either asked to give another sample or part of the result was "unknown". (She has told both versions!) And the companies would have many more samples for humans than dogs.

Wait and see what sort of dog she believes herself to be.

 

[MegNZ]

My credit cards likes your idea better!

[April Andy]

On 05/08/2023 at 7:02 AM, MegNZ said:

Hi everyone,

 

I brought home a 13 week old puppy 5 days ago and am looking for somewhere to chat about how it's going, ask questions, and get advice and support as needed.

 

Sophi is a rottweiler/bullmastiff/amstaff mix, black with tan rottie markings in all the "right rottie places", with a very narrow white blaze down her chest. I particularly wanted a rottie mix that looks rottie as I have a 20 month old rottie mix girl who looks 100% rottie except she's only 30kg. She's an amazing dog in every way, a real treasure. Sophi's face is a real mix of her different breeds, no clue what it will look like when she's an adult. I call her Serious Sophi, not a hint of a smile in sight lol.

 

Her original owners were planning to keep the litter (all 14 of them!!) but their circumstances changed, hence deciding to sell the pups at 13 weeks. Not ideal imo, I'd rather have gotten her at 8 weeks so I could cover all the early socialization stuff but when they said she has had extensive contact with a large number of people, including children of all ages, I decided to take the risk.

 

The house was chaos! Pups racing around everywhere! But the pups and the house were very clean, and the pups all seemed happy and confidant and very, very keen to interact and get affection.

 

Sophi has had no vaccinations, no housetraining re going toilet outside, and seems to have experienced zero boundaries. But she's picking up going outside to toilet very quickly, is learning that sitting gets her affection and food, and her initial protesting when crated for the night has significantly reduced. She's very low energy for a pup which is a blessing for me. Lulu, my 20 month old rottie grl, was also very low energy. My mobility is somewhat limited and all the up and down of having a puppy has made my knees scream, to the point I can barely walk some of the time. I managed to take Lulu out for a long ball fetch session yesterday, thanks to the even ground at the park I usually take her and my walker to lean heavily on, but she's mostly being treadmilled which sucks. I love taking her out, I just can't manage it much at the moment.

 

Apart from being low energy Sophi is also extremely sweet. A soft, gentle, quiet girl in her interactions with me. Also very little mouthing (yet? lol). Lulu thinks Sophi is The Best Present Ever!!! and Sophi was initially very overwhelmed by Lulu wanting to play with her. I made the mistake of allowing Lulu too much free access to Sophi the 1st couple of days, to the point Sophi was snarling and lunging and biting Lulu. I was very taken aback by how over the top Sophi's response was, wondering what the hell I had brought home, but as soon as I started limiting Lulu's free access everything has settled down and Sophi is now happily initiating some of the play sessions, which I am keeping very short. 

 

So, so far everything seems to be going well, but I'm exhausted and in a lot of pain and am feeling pretty dreadful. Hence looking for a place to talk. Thanks for reading this long intro post.

Hey Meg, 

 

Congratulations on welcoming little Sophi into your home!!! It sounds like you're off to a great start despite the initial chaos and challenges. It's wonderful that you're seeking a place to chat and find support – raising a puppy can be both rewarding and demanding, and having a community to share experiences with is invaluable. Sophi's mix of breeds sounds fascinating, and her unique appearance must make her even more endearing. It's awesome that she's quickly picking up on housetraining and learning commands like sitting. And it's heartening to hear that her initial response to the crate is improving – patience and consistency with crate training can yield great results over time.

 

Managing the dynamic between Sophi and Lulu is a smart move. Introducing them gradually and monitoring their interactions will help build a positive relationship between the two. It's common for puppies to need a bit of time to adjust to new playmates, and it's great to hear that Sophi is starting to initiate play sessions too.

 

I'm sorry to hear about the physical challenges you're facing due to mobility issues. It's important to prioritize your well-being while ensuring that Sophi gets the attention and exercise she needs. Treadmilling can be a helpful alternative for exercise, and as she grows, you might be able to explore more outdoor activities together.

 

Remember, the early days with a new puppy can be tiring and overwhelming, but it's all part of the journey. Keep reaching out for advice, sharing your experiences, and seeking support – there are many experienced dog owners in various communities who can provide valuable insights and encouragement. Wishing you and Sophi all the best as you continue this exciting journey together!

 

Cheers! 

Edited August 16, 2023 by April Andy

[MegNZ]

Thanks for your response Andy. I've given some updates throughout this thread, all in all things are going very well.

 

Anyone have anything to add to the short list I wrote outlining my thoughts so far regarding how to (hopefully!) prevent my 2 girls from having any issues with each other when Sophi reaches adolescence and adulthood?

 

I've taken Sophi to the park a couple of times this past week, tossing up her incomplete vaccination status with her need to see a bit of the world. Plus my friend is also sick right now and isn't able to mind her when I take Lulu out for some exercise. Looks like she's moving out of her fear period, she was very relaxed and playful at the park yesterday, happily chasing Lulu while Lulu ran after the ball etc. The staffy in her appeared! - that lovely big staffy smile they do when they are panting. Made me grin, she normally looks so serious.

 

She met a couple of vaccinated dogs and I was very pleased with how she greeted them - quietly, a bit tentatively, but no real fear. The sniffs happened and the dogs went their separate ways. Perfect. I'm expecting her greetings when an adolescent to be a lot less polite but I'm going to do my best to keep dogs as neutral as possible. This means I need to do more work with Lulu so she doesn't teach Sophi some strange dogs are really exciting. Lulu has learnt to greet most dogs fairly calmly now but it can be a real free for all when they are around her age and/or playful. Or maybe that is normal? 

 

Sophi is learning what wait means - at the doorway to the main part of the house and at the front door when I open it - plus I can hold a piece of kibble in my open hand by her mouth, tell her wait then release her to eat it with an "okay" when she sits waiting and looking at me. Takes her a bit longer to sit patiently when it's a piece of cheese or better, so that's what I'm working on atm. I gave her some of Lulu's raw food the other day (beef/horse/offal mix) and she went absolutely bananas over it! Training is much easier when you have a foodie.

 

Lulu and Sophi are now able to "play fight" without Sophi getting really snotty (frustration? overwhelm?). I'm still keeping that kind of play quite short and it's easy to interrupt. Lulu is too much of a big kid to "discipline" Sophi/tell her when she's being too over the top or getting too serious, so I'm doing it. Plus sometimes it's Lulu I'm needing to tell to settle down/ease off a bit. My previous dog, Grace, was amazing with puppies - a mix of play and guidance and some serious parenting when needed. It was a joy watching her with Lulu when Lulu was a wee pup. Cancer took her at age 11 very fast. Still heartbroken. She was so vital, so full of life, and not a grey hair on her, not a sick day in her life. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rebanne]

I have to say, with all the females dogs I have owned, that I never had a problem except with one girl from GAP ( Greyhound Adoption Program )who caused me to take my smaller crossbreed girl, to the vets 3 times. I couldn't commit to keeping them totally apart for the rest of their lives so the grey was returned with many tears. She was so perfect for me. But not for my dog. The Grey went on to live a lovely life as an only dog.

I had a GSD girl who was less then thrilled with other girls too close to her which did improve when desexed but at home never a problem with the others. Just out and about. And never a problem in competitions.

[Dogsfevr]

On the topic of exercise it just makes them fitter not drained it means each week they need more exercise to feed the body its an area you wont beat .
Your better off looking at mind games which do make the dog tired ,teaches one on one focus & NILIF (nothing in life is free).
I have large breeds & dont do dog parks & would never do so with anything under 12 months .
Too many life skills go wrong happen there & just one moment of bullying & your up &hit creek for life .
My large breed showdogs are taught other dogs dont exist ,im the high value treat .
My current boy who is bright as anything would happily run around an oval & he would learn no life skills whats ever except free range madness.
Im a big believer in all puppies but large breed teaching mind & body co ordination skills,teaching them focus & body awareness training .So may cheap items can be bought for this & both dogs can enjoy it  .

As for 2 girls yes we dont recommend it but you have them now so Mangement is a must keeping in mind the drama doesnt usually happen until adults when pushing the order happens or poking the bear .
We had 2 best friends who one day turned into world war 3 & had to be separated for life they ticked the box"bitches" bigtime .
What i would be managing in the pup is how to cope with not having to protect its human all the time & the skills to switch off .
The combo throws in alot of different mindsets ,jobs & traits .
The power aspect alone is a big factor when it comes to controlling the leash in adulthood .
I would suggest life skills for one on one outings is way more important than dog park running .
The first 8 months pups are like sponges in learning ,9 months on that brain starts to be independant so for me instilling foundations that make life nice is so much more important than meeting dogs especially in a powerful breed .

I would tend to go more for a Guide dog principal of training especially if your mobility is an issue ,give the pup jobs to do now to ensure the outside world is you only .
So many owners teach higher value of other dogs in there pups first off instead of the reverse .
I go with if my dog doesnt like other dogs i still have 12 plus years out in public & the public manners are more important than a dogpark whether it be sitting in the vet,at a pet friendly cafe or for my dogs Showdogs in public .

Edited August 17, 2023 by Dogsfevr

[MegNZ]

On 17/08/2023 at 4:12 PM, Rebanne said:

I have to say, with all the females dogs I have owned, that I never had a problem except with one girl from GAP...

 

I'm getting the impression 2 female dogs really, really not getting on isn't very common, but it can have a huge impact when it does happen - something extreme like having to rehome one of them or keep them permanently separate - hence the advice to avoid having multiple female dogs, where possible. I've known 7 people with more than one female, and have had more than one myself several times, and there have been no issues.

 

Is it less likely to occur when one of the females joins the family/pack as a young puppy, compared to the 2 females being brought together as adults?

Edited August 20, 2023 by MegNZ

[MegNZ]

Hi Dogsfevr, thanks for your response. Lots of great info. I will look up how to teach mind & body coordination.

 

I'm not a fan of dog parks. Cesar Millan goes as far as to say they're one of the worst places you can take a puppy or leaderless dog. The main place I go is a very large local park with 3 sports fields. It has paved paths so very walker friendly, plus the sports fields are walker friendly too. I sometimes meet up with a stable/set group of humans and their dogs but I do a good 30 minutes of training at the park 1st, with the ball throw being one of Lulu's rewards for performing what I ask. I used to "just take my dog/s out", now my outings are very structured, starting before we leave the house. Every step (leash going on, exiting the house, exiting the car, walking around the park, leash being taken off prior to a ball session, every throw of the ball etc etc) requires her to perform a particular set of behaviours 1st. Sophi will be treated the same. I rarely see anyone doing obedience or structured games with their dog/s there. 

 

You said what you would be managing in the pup is how to cope with not having to protect its human all the time & the skills to switch off. Is that because her breed mixes are from guardian type dogs? Tho I seriously doubt she has any bullmastiff in her, and at the moment she's amstaff in weight. Lulu, my 20 month old rottie, is displaying zero need to protect me. At what age is this tendency likely to become apparent.

 

What kind of jobs would ensure the outside world is me only?

 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by MegNZ