Dog vs Dog Aggression

[englishmanbo]

Our dog is no longer trustworthy with other dogs, having more than a few very distressing unprovoked attacks on other dogs in the last 6 months. She has never displayed aggression to humans. Prior to this, within the last year she has been attacked (unprovoked) a few times by other dogs while sitting at my feet focused on me, not the other dog. I pulled her off and the other owner did nothing to control their own dog. I was bitten both times, once requiring stitches. All off leash, one of the owners admitted their dog is known as aggressive to other dogs. The other owner did not understand that her Great Dane sized dog literally standing over my dog (on a leash sitting at my feet) would trigger a response. Around other dogs I now give control of the dog to my wife if she is present as I don't want to transfer my own anxiety.

 

I am waiting on a name for a local trainer,  have read http://blog.k9pro.com.au/dangerous-dog/  and other info including blogs and council regs, have purchased the best reviewed muzzle, select areas with few dogs, use a harness and have a leash on around unknown dogs.

 

She is 6 years old, well socialised since a puppy, including puppy classes, trained to use toys instead of shoes, soft bite training, consistent reward based obedience for the first couple of years and ongoing re-enforcement.  Has always had exercise 2-3 times a day including lots of ball fetch. Yes she is ball obsessed and not that interested in other dogs for play (unless she meets a good match). Since a pup she has always played rough with a bit of play growling and could be over-reactive/attempt to dominate to other dogs. Possibly due to being a rescue pup who was the runt and had to make up for her size with aggression. I manged it by getting her focused on me and settling down when overexcited or a strange dog was approaching. Her recall is good and is a pretty obedient dog.

 

This is heartbreaking. Is it possible (in the future) she will ever return to be trustworthy off leash or muzzle free to fetch or play at a dog park or beach?

 

 

[Rebanne]

so sorry this happened to you. Impossible to say what may happen, sadly dogs that are attacked by other dogs often never get over it. I wish you luck finding a good trainer who may be able to help you and your girl.

[englishmanbo]

Thanks Reb Anne, I guess I am looking for peoples anecdotal experiences one way or the other. Good to know if we have accept this is the new reality or  if there is any hope.

[Rebanne]

I commend you for taking responsibility, thank you.

[Mairead]

Will she be trustworthy? Maybe not. Maybe she has always shown dominance aggression (playing rough) and now it has escalated plus maybe some fear aggression because a dog on leash around off leash dogs can feel threatened.

First, keep her away from other dogs. The more she practises a behavior the harder it will be to change. Dogs don't need to go to a dog park, it is where you are likely to find uncontrolled dogs. And you need to consider just how unsafe it is to put her in situations that resulted in stitches for you. It may be your wife or someone else next time.

Second, get a thorough medical checkup for her including a thyroid and any other tests, to exclude any medical reasons for the behaviour. Tell the vet the reason for the checkup and be truthful about the situations where she was aggressive.

Third, ask the vet for a referral to a specialist qualified behaviour vet. "Dog trainers ...should not be dealing with ... cases involving aggression" - Kirsti Seksel in Behaviour - Proceedings 390 - Centre for Veterinary Education, Sydney Uni

Fourth, start to write down everything you can about the situations that are a problem, such as where, type of dog, warning body language and also the situations where she used to be invariably OK with another dog, if any. Include her early life and the playing rough too, and how you have managed it, and the training methods you have used. Expect that everyone in the family will have to be on the same page with this, and medication may be prescribed for her.

My references:

The 5 Minute Veterinary Consult, Tilley and Smith - Aggression

Behavior Problems of the Dog and Cat Landsberg, Hunthausen and Ackerman - Canine Agression

 

Lastly, run this advice past your vet too.

 

 

 

 

 

[englishmanbo]

I will make an appointment to discuss this with the local Vet, whose website suggests a home visit for behavioral issues. Thankfully we have pet insurance. The dog is very fearful of car travel (despite being ok with it as a pup) and the nearest animal behavior specialist would be a 1000km round trip.

 

You mention that a dog on leash around off leash dogs can feel threatened. Previously she could be more aggressive on the leash, which is why I tried so hard for many years to train her to settle and focus on me without it. Now I just don't see it as an option to be off leash or without the muzzle if other dogs are likely to be around. In the end nothing works any more and we just have to avoid unknown dogs. Makes a normal walk stressful which probably effects her as well.

 

Thank you for the advice and providing your sources, (rare on a forum), appreciated.

[Mairead]

You may find that your GP vet is able to suggest some medication and/or therapy for you to try first. 

Perhaps the specialist vet can send a questionnaire first then do a phone or web consult for first appointment?

A video of her in the car might be useful too.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Mairead
Typo

[Little Gifts]

I had a pei that at times would attack my stafford (no other dogs). The triggers were different each time. I had 2 trainers and a behaviouralist assist me, the latter being the best. Great and easy to implement strategies. But sadly my girl had a number of demons (related to how she was socialised before she came into rescue) so we had extreme anxiety in certain circumstances, grand standing for attention and a lot of other things also going on that reduced her quality of life. We did a lot of mental puzzles with her to wear her out as she was terrified of leaving the property. They definately wore her out and she was getting most of her kibble/dry based meals in a puzzle. So that is something you could try too.

 

My next pei boy didn't like certain breeds because he had previously been attacked by them. Not overly social with dogs outside his other breed but did live happily with other breeds of dog who allowed him his space. I never took him to dog parks (unless we were having a pei get together) because having multiple dogs come up to him at the same time was not comfortable for him. I always watched him like a hawk with the leash around my neck ready to remove him if I noticed any discomfort. I was careful to street walk him where there were no dogs rushing the fence and had several big parks to take him to but never parked near the dog park sections and walked by them because I never wanted to set him up to fail. I wanted him to have safe fun. While he wasn't aggressive as such I could tell when he became uncomfortable and he was ready to react if he felt he couldn't escape a situation. That didn't make an outing fun for either of us.

 

There are things you know about your girl that are positive. You have to find ways to do more of that and not worry so much about the other stuff. Its her walk and exercise and doesn't need to fit a box. My boy loved sniffing and marking. I was always on the look out for new areas we could walk or dog parks more likely to be empty at certain times of day (we'd leash up and leave if someone else turned up). He had opportunities to socialise with pei he knew but really spent very little time in their company and rarely 'played' with them. So if your girl loves her ball focus on that for your outings - find a dog park that is less frequented and go in for some pure play.

 

Not playing with other dogs doesn't make them less sociable. Those skills still exist, as do their likes, dislikes and discomforts. It's just about acknowledging what makes them most comfortable and enhancing those opportunities. My stafford was super social too and I could literally stick her in any situation and she'd make the best of it. But I'd never do that to my boy simply because they both had different needs. They quite often got very different outings to each other because of it.