Adopt dont shop is spreading

[sandgrubber]

17 hours ago, Adrienne said:

The whole anti-ownership of pets is way wrong IMO, ownership of a thing = control of and responsibility for. I absolutely want undisputed control and responsibility for any animal I keep.

IMO English needs a new word or two to recognisethe two way bond between pets and their owners.  If I play and cuddle with a living entity and grieve deeply when that entity dies, it's more than a thing and more than a possession, even though I bought it and have legal ownership and responsibility for it. 

[sandgrubber]

10 hours ago, cannibalgoldfish said:

You "adopted"  a dog/cat from a shelter? Oh you paid $200 to adopt? you did not adopt, you bought.

 

$200 to reimburse some organisation for a vet check, intake services such as deworming and grooming, several days or weeks boarding, and in some cases a spay or castration is not comparable to $2000+ to a breeder.  I, personally, shop rather than adopt.  But I  fully respect those who are proud of adopting from a shelter.

[Adrienne]

2 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

it's more than a thing and more than a possession, even though I bought it and have legal ownership and responsibility for it. 

 

Yes. Living things are not Things. For myself I have always understood I am in an interspecies relationship with animals I keep, and within that relationship there is no sense of ownership, however, in the world it is my legal ownership (as a property right) which protects my right to make any and all decisions regarding my dear dear friends. A huge responsibility, and one which I feel can only be appropriately apportioned to me for the animals I keep.  

 

In my own way of speaking I favour saying "I keep two dogs", or "I keep one horse" because "keeping" is actually what is happening. I keep them safe, I keep them healthy, I keep them with me. 

 

[sandgrubber]

On 26/04/2023 at 7:02 AM, tdierikx said:

The word "adoption" completely anthropomorphises the human/pet relationship,

Not 'completely'.   You could as well say it recognises the deep emotional bond that develops between sentient beings of different species.  I have no love for PETA and extreme AR.  But my pets aren't just things I own.

[Mairead]

"Respect" is the word I want people to use to describe their relationship with their animals. I would rather people respect their animals than love them.

Respect meaning you learn about what they need and respect their own culture not try to make them like people.

I read too often the comment "so cute" or "adorable" for animals I think are so far from their original design they look deformed to me.

How can there be respect for munchkin cats, extreme dish face Arabians or Tennessee Walking horses with nicked tails and weighted shoes?

 

[sandgrubber]

20 hours ago, asal said:

 

 

no idea if it is true, but told PETA own shares in facebook and demanded the rules

The most absurd FB ruling: you can't sell fish, live or dead, but in NZ, whitebait (ie, fish fry netted on their way from fresh water to the ocean, a traditional delicacy in NZ) are sold freely.

[Adrienne]

3 minutes ago, Mairead said:

Respect meaning you learn about what they need and respect their own culture not try to make them like people.

 Yes. I love that I learned to 'speak' Dog and I learned to 'speak' Horse ... it has made me a better Human!

And regarding people who fall about exclaiming how much they LOVE their dog; show me your dog - is it happy, balanced, responsive, joyful, natural, healthy? Any animal (not traumatised) kept in a truly loving manner will be all those things as a result of being connected in relationship with a human who bothers to understand the animal's needs and conscientiously provides them with what they need to have, and know, to be peacefully in the world.

[_PL_]

I am sad to see the amount of anti-rescue sentiment on Dol.

 

Who cares what buying or adopting is called. It's all semantics. As is whatever you believe the term is for ownership should be.

 

All I ask is people love and care for their dogs for their entire lifetime. 

[Adrienne]

I hope you do not think that I am anti-rescue. I am all for people acquiring a sound pet via rescue! I am not supportive of the guilt brigade who insist rescuing a pet is the only ethical way of acquiring one (and let's be honest true rescues have come from terrible circumstances which can have disastrous consequences for the individual dogs who may need specialised savvy and financial homes to allow the animal to be comfortable physically and emotionally for the rest of their lives).

 

And as for pound dogs - we know what types are showing up the most - I have to wonder how much the whole rescue scene is actually just supporting these repeat offenders indiscriminately breeding their dogs for the whatever reason without regard for what they are turning out .... which by all indications are not very happy balanced dogs whether by their breeding or, inept raising or, indiscriminate selling to whomever comes along. Remember the article about a pound having to turn away lost dogs because they were being filled up with litter after litter of pups (10 litters from the same property!) I mean, who the hell is benefitting most in that situation, seems like the idiots that have been breeding and breeding and incurring no consequences ( an accidental litter happens once, not ten times!). I have had a pound dog, she was excellent, a cattle cross, but I was a good and suitable owner for her and so she thrived and was a delight to all who knew her.

 

As for caring for dogs their entire lives, yes I think most people intend that when they buy... and sometimes LIFE happens and they simply cannot keep their beloved animal and need to find a new home for it. And here is a really good other reason for doing the hard yards with your dogs to ensure they are safe, friendly, socialised and healthy ... you know if they ever do need to be re-homed they are a solid candidate for another family or person. 

 

In about 15 years when I am of an age to be on my last dogs,  - they will be rescued golden oldies. I have had people in their 70's want to buy a pup off me and I tell them, you really should get a golden oldie for yourself and make a BIG difference in a dogs life.

 

[coneye]

1 hour ago, Adrienne said:

I hope you do not think that I am anti-rescue. I am all for people acquiring a sound pet via rescue! I am not supportive of the guilt brigade who insist rescuing a pet is the only ethical way of acquiring one (and let's be honest true rescues have come from terrible circumstances which can have disastrous consequences for the individual dogs who may need specialised savvy and financial homes to allow the animal to be comfortable physically and emotionally for the rest of their lives).

 

 

 

In about 15 years when I am of an age to be on my last dogs,  - they will be rescued golden oldies. I have had people in their 70's want to buy a pup off me and I tell them, you really should get a golden oldie for yourself and make a BIG difference in a dogs life.

 

Your last paragraph is actually interesting , Wonder how many breeders  who wanted to sell there last one or two , $4000 dogs would refuse to sell it to someone elderly , say in there 70's  especielly a dog that would usually live to 14-15 ,, after all chances are when than dogs old , maybee frail itself  and needing expensive medication to live a good life . Well chances are finding a home will be very difficult . Makes me wonder how many breeders would take the 4 grand or refuse to sell it  to someone elderly  ,

[Adrienne]

Well I am not selling a Golden Oldie for $4,000! The Young dog I am rehoming is 12 months old and is great pet candidate and would be ideal for people who simply are not interested in infant puppyhood and all its mad-making frustrations. I am also advertising my infant pups soon for same price and actually believe the young dog is better value because of his age - for any family! I actually I wish people were more interested in older pups and not hell bent on taking home a tiny infant 

 

Of course I am negotiable on my prices. I don't discount my prices until my pups have been advertised for a few weeks and then, I negotiate with people who have been here to where I am and demonstrated keen interest and a decent home available. I don't discount my pups if I can help it, I also don't price them until the week I am going to advertise them so they are reasonable in the current market.

 

Hands down I would give Spanner away to a great home, but want to try selling him first because why should people reasonably want a dog for free? And it's pretty personal - I am not auctioning my dogs to anyone who will pay the most money for them! I am putting good little dogs on the ground and want decent money for my efforts, I am one person and what I do is not scalable, I can only sell each pup once so will naturally try to get a good price for them. 

 

And no, I do not sell pups to elderly people. The sheer physical fact of raising a puppy - bending down, picking up, moving swiftly etc IMO makes it a recipe for silly work arounds that spoil the dog. Case in point, my female which I got through helping her new owners because they weren't coping with her behaviours was raised by an elderly breeder who had mobility issues and as a result I think she was hand fed from the lady"s lap and the dog did not know how to eat out of a bowl! 

 

My step mother recently asked me how to help her friend re-home her Dachshund puppy which was 9 months old and completely bonkers because the elderly lady simply couldn't do what was needed. I suggested contacting the breeder, or a breed rescue if she could find one, but the elderly lady wanted to sell the pup because she wanted to get her money back... I asked my step mother if she would pay any money for a dog with issues and she firmly said No, no way! if that elderly lady had gotten a Golden Oldie she would have been set, but no she wanted a tiny puppy ... and someone sold one to her.

 

 

[_PL_]

2 hours ago, Adrienne said:

I hope you do not think that I am anti-rescue.

 

No, sorry I was not responding to you, just in general. 

[sandgrubber]

1 hour ago, coneye said:

Makes me wonder how many breeders would take the 4 grand or refuse to sell it  to someone elderly  ,

Hey.  Easy on oldies.  I'm 74, but the actuarial tables expect I'll make 95. My dogs will probablybe frail before I am.  I'm home all day.  I do 6 km daily.  My dogs are off lead and do 4 steps to my one.  They are seldom left alone, and if I  pass early there's a loving home to welcome them. 

 

People (and dogs) are individuals should be evaluated as such. 

[Rascalmyshadow]

Why do people feel the need to criticise others for the terms they use, who cares if someone says they adopted their dog or if they call their dog a spoodle, labradoodle etc. 

 

I work with dogs every day and have done so for 28years, I have seen so much neglect and abuse but slowly I am seeing a change for the better, people actually treating their dogs as living, breathing, feeling beings that have mental and physical needs, if using terms that are more meaningful to their humans means that they’re better cared for then where’s the issue???

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Rascalmyshadow

[asal]

8 hours ago, Powerlegs said:

I am sad to see the amount of anti-rescue sentiment on Dol.

 

Who cares what buying or adopting is called. It's all semantics. As is whatever you believe the term is for ownership should be.

 

All I ask is people love and care for their dogs for their entire lifetime. 

 

I am astounded by the anti breeder sentiment on an ankc site, let alone so many other sites for purebred dogs including face plant?

 

people saying they "rescued" their pup they bought, dont even mention it came from an ankc breeder to prevent being made to feel bad because it came from a breeder if they had?  How do I know, puppies i bred I have seen their photos posted by their proud new owner, but not game to say other than "this is my darling rescue"

 

That shows how much pressure is being put on people to adopt/rescue now days .

 

Let alone the pressure to never risk breeding a litter in the future.

 

I realised being a breeder was becoming "being a witch" decades ago.

 

anyone who looks back to my comments from 1999 can verify where I saw this was heading.  

no way did I want to be proven right  because this one is leading to the end of ankc dogs and just about every other register.  

 

what is it with the human race?  the search to find a scapegoat and eliminate it?

 

To register a purebred pup is now 66 dollars for both main and limit.  Made the comment I suspect it will be $100 soon to keep the ankc in the black, by the rueful laugh he gave he didn't disagree with me.

 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by asal

[Adrienne]

1 hour ago, asal said:

How do I know, puppies i bred I have seen their photos posted by their proud new owner, but not game to say other than "this is my darling rescue"

That's terrible! I am not on social media so I have no real idea just how far looney the whole thing is. Though when I was out with my pups the other day a lady started questioning me in a rather pointed way, Are you a breeder? Yes, I bred this litter. Why on earth are you breeding dogs? Because I enjoy it.  That's not a good reason! Well the people who buy my puppies are glad I do. That's not a reason either, there are too many dogs needing rescuing, there are too many puppies being bred! Puppy farms are disgusting! Yes, terrible aren't they, so sad for those poor dogs. But you are doing the same thing! I am definitely. not doing the same thing ... can you imagine a puppy farmer having so few pups and so much care to be able to pop them in a trolley and walk down the street to socialise them? Well, no but you still shouldn't breed dogs. Thanks for your input have a nice day. The lady had a problem with the puppies being too cute, with my enjoyment of partaking in the activity and with my puppy buyers being happy with their new dog. I am not part of the problem this lady is walking around with in her head, but she thinks I am "taking up" buyers who would rescued a dog if they don't see my puppies....

 

What a shame your puppy buyers didn't feel able to be proud of the origin story of their pup or themselves as Savvy Puppy Buyers! Too WEIRD

 

 

[DogsAndTheMob]

15 hours ago, Adrienne said:

And no, I do not sell pups to elderly people. The sheer physical fact of raising a puppy - bending down, picking up, moving swiftly etc IMO makes it a recipe for silly work arounds that spoil the dog.

I think that should be assessed on an individual basis. I compete in dog sports and I see many successful competitors who are in their 70s and even 80s. I’m not just talking about Obedience and Rally but also the very active sports like tracking and agility. One friend in her 80s is campaigning two dogs in the higher levels of Agility and Jumpers, which requires multiple runs in a day. My friend and others like her are inspirational.

[tdierikx]

@PowerlegsI am certainly not against rescue when it's done well - like yours is. I AM against the cowboys who have fallen for the animal rights mantra of "adopt, don't shop" and "no dogs should be bred while there are still dogs in shelters"... and the "rescue" groups who think that rescue is simply about how many animals they can rehome, rather than how well they can rehome them.

 

I firmly believe that we should be able to choose from a variety of sources when we are looking to add a pet to our lives - registered breeders more often provide some assurance that the pup will grow up with certain traits that one may want in their new companion, and that should not be discounted just because some other people may have made poor choices when getting a pup, then find that pup has grown into something they really didn't think it would (ie. the majority of animals in pounds).

 

I personally prefer to get a dog as a pup, as that allows me more scope to shape them into exactly what I want/need in a companion - and if that pup is from a breeder that factors temperament into the equation when breeding, I am assured that I will have a pup that comes with at least the genetic predisposition of certain temperament traits that I can work with and end up with a dog that truly fits into my life and lifestyle.

 

As most people here who know me will be aware, I have had pets (dogs) from pretty much every "source" over the years... pet shop, backyard bred, registered breeder, and rescue... I reckon I've earned my stripes as a responsible pet owner, as every single one of those dogs have been with me from the day I took them home all the way up to taking their last breaths in my arms with dignity and love. I have also fostered literally hundreds of rescue puppies and helped shape them in their formative stages to be the best little canine companions for their new families. I think I've "earned" the "right" to choose exactly where I get my next companion from, yes?

 

I fully support responsible rescues AND responsible breeders... they are not necessarily mutually exclusive with regards to what each offers as a choice for a sound family pet.

 

T.

[JulesP]

16 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

Hey.  Easy on oldies.  I'm 74, but the actuarial tables expect I'll make 95. My dogs will probablybe frail before I am.  I'm home all day.  I do 6 km daily.  My dogs are off lead and do 4 steps to my one.  They are seldom left alone, and if I  pass early there's a loving home to welcome them. 

 

People (and dogs) are individuals should be evaluated as such. 

 

Yeah my 75yo Father regularly does 20km walks and I know plenty of people still competing in obedience well into that age group with active breeds. 

[sandgrubber]

13 hours ago, asal said:

people saying they "rescued" their pup they bought, dont even mention it came from an ankc breeder to prevent being made to feel bad because it came from a breeder if they had?

Inferred motive.  The actual may be quite different.   I'm reminded of a widow (husband killed in plane crash) and 2 kids who were my tenants years back.  She told me she overheard one of her kids say to a friend: "My parents are divorced too.  My daddy's dead".  Adoption, like divorce, become a norm and advertising that you bought from a registered breeder risks looking like a tall poppy.