Microchip

[Dashie]

What can I do if a breeder has not registered the microchip in a puppy I have purchased off them, and won’t answer my requests. Also sent one of the puppies by courier with no records and no transfer of ownership papers.

 

[jemappelle]

As you're in NSW you can take down your proof of ownership (receipt, messages etc) and get the local Council to help you change ownership.  Have you checked that you have the correct microchip number first?  

 

In regards to the second part, you can contact Dogs NSW if that is who they are registered with but it is possible that the breeder is still awaiting registration papers so unable to forward them on.

[_PL_]

Have you had her scanned to make sure she's actually on the register? She may have a blank chip in which case you need an M1 form to get her into your name in NSW. 

Edited to add, a P1A as well.  

Edited March 30, 2023 by Powerlegs

[~Anne~]

As per both the above responses. 
 

It is a widely held incorrect belief that microchip details or pedigree papers show legal ownership. The golden rule of possession being 9/10ths of the law is true with animals. 
 

Animals are goods and chattel. Proving evidence of ownership such as veterinary and purchase receipts is enough to show ownership.
 

Get the dog scanned for a chip and determine if it actually has one, and what details have been entered on the register. Then with chip details in hand, if it’s chipped, head down to the council with your receipts. Fill out the chip form, and that’s it. If it’s not chipped already, have you your vet chip it and compete the details with your name etc for the register. 
 

Edited March 30, 2023 by ~Anne~

[DogsAndTheMob]

38 minutes ago, ~Anne~ said:

As per both the above responses. 
 

It is a widely held incorrect belief that microchip details or pedigree papers show legal ownership. The golden rule of possession being 9/10ths of the law is true with animals. 
 

Animals are goods and chattel. Proving evidence of ownership such as veterinary and purchase receipts is enough to show ownership.
 

Get the dog scanned for a chip and determine if it actually has one, and what details have been entered on the register. Then with chip details in hand, if it’s chipped, head down to the council with your receipts. Fill out the chip form, and that’s it. If it’s not chipped already, have you your vet chip it and compete the details on your name for the register. 
 

Sadly, that was not our experience when I bought an elderly relative a longed-for dachshund. The dachshund’s previous owner had recently moved from Victoria and found she could not manage two dachshunds.

The dog’s Victorian microchip registration was transferred from the previous owner’s name into my relative’s name. After a delay for desexing, we tried to register her in NSW. We could not find information on interstate transfers into NSW, so the vet who had provided care and desexed her (and cared for my relative’s previous dog) scanned her and filled out the ID paperwork, which was submitted with the application and a statutory declaration to a rural NSW council. The council refused to accept the paperwork because the vet was not the person who had inserted the microchip. They also refused to even look at the proof that the dog’s Victorian microchip registration had been transferred into my relative’s name. After several visits to council by my husband and my elderly relative, they interrogated me at length over the phone, then demanded the previous owner’s contact details so they could interrogate her. Thankfully, I had her contact details and she was cooperative. Even after all that, they registered the dachshund reluctantly and with complaints.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by DogsAndTheMob

[~Anne~]

The council employee was wrong obviously. I’m sorry you were put through the wringer because of someone who did not understand the companion animals act, or the law. 

[Dashie]

Thank-you for all the replies. The breeder microchipped the dogs, but has not put them into the system. I got the second dog a few weeks after I bought the first, and it was sent by transport without any records. I let them know it had arrived and the papers were not with it. They said they forgot to send them and since then I have not been able to get in contact with them, even after leaving messages and emails. I have since had the dogs  desexed and went to register them, only to find they were not in the system. 
 

I have found the breeder has now branched into a new breed of dog, and has a new phone number, but doesn’t answer it. You have to leave a message. I managed to find a link and sent her an email, however no answer.

[DogsAndTheMob]

10 hours ago, ~Anne~ said:

The council employee was wrong obviously. I’m sorry you were put through the wringer because of someone who did not understand the companion animals act, or the law. 

Thanks Anne. It was very distressing for us all, but particularly my elderly relative.

The council worker expressed concern about being audited.

[Adrienne]

I don't understand how this happens. When I take my pups to be vaccinated and microchipped my vets have always inserted the chip and put them on the registry themselves. I then get an email from the registry and can access the record myself and effect the change of ownership for the buyer when they pick puppy up. The two pups I have sold to people in other states have not had the ownership details changed because they are not here with me to sign the transfer forms and in that case they simply apply direct to the registry themselves to change the ownership details which results in an email from the registry to me advising an change of ownership request has been made and if there is no response form me within 14 days the applied for change will occur. 

 

The concerning thing about the email notifying a request for ownership change is that it provides no info on the proposed new owner! Scary really, it seems as though anyone with knowledge of the dogs microchip number can just request a change of ownership and so long as no-one responds in the negative then its a done deal...

 

It would be really great and sensible if there was ONE national registry of microchip details.

 

 

 

[_PL_]

Some people are also chippers (or know chippers) who just put a blank chip in. That's not a legit way of doing things.  But there's just not enough manpower to cover the laws.

Correct that chips can be claimed by the person with physical custody. But the original owner must have their name on the chip and mark it as missing/stolen then the transfer can't go through. 

That's where M1 and P1A forms come in for blank chips. M1 to have your vet confirm there is a chip. P1A to get your ownership onto the register.

If there's a problem with the above, call the local council pound rather than the council front desk for up to date legislation. 

M1 https://www.olg.nsw.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Verification-of-Existing-Microchip-M1-Form.pdf
P1A https://www.olg.nsw.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Permanent-identification-P1A-Form.pdf

 

edited to clarify. I refer to 'blank' as having no information attached to the chip number. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Powerlegs

[asal]

1 hour ago, Powerlegs said:

Some people are also chippers (or know chippers) who just put a blank chip in. That's not a legit way of doing things.  But there's just not enough manpower to cover the laws.

Correct that chips can be claimed by the person with physical custody. But the original owner must have their name on the chip and mark it as missing/stolen then the transfer can't go through. 

That's where M1 and P1A forms come in for blank chips. M1 to have your vet confirm there is a chip. P1A to get your ownership onto the register.

If there's a problem with the above, call the local council pound rather than the council front desk for up to date legislation. 

M1 https://www.olg.nsw.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Verification-of-Existing-Microchip-M1-Form.pdf
P1A https://www.olg.nsw.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Permanent-identification-P1A-Form.pdf

 

 

no such thing as a "blank chip"  they all come numbered.

 

things can go haywire though.  well remember a puppy chipped and scanned at 6 weeks.   headed to new owner interstate and scanned at the airport. chip matched paperwork.  Scanned on arrival. chip matched paperwork. some weeks later at the new owners vet for next vaccination. a month after previous vaccination and chip inserted..... no chip to be found?

 

no explanations coming from the puppy either

 

come to think of it, if the scanner battery is low it will not register the chip number, new battery, up came the number

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by asal

[jemappelle]

I used to be a microchip implanter and had to enter my own records on the database and give the new owners a copy of the paperwork.  Once I found a chip on the floor so obviously I had stuffed that one up and had to redo that kitten.  Kittens are hard to do as the skin where it goes is quite thick and difficult to pierce and puppies often scream when they get there's.  I gave it up after a couple of years as I hated putting that big needle into those poor little things.

 

@Dashie

[jemappelle]

I used to be a microchip implanter and had to enter my own records on the database and give the new owners a copy of the paperwork.  Once I found a chip on the floor so obviously I had stuffed that one up and had to redo that kitten.  Kittens are hard to do as the skin where it goes is quite thick and difficult to pierce and puppies often scream when they get there's.  I gave it up after a couple of years as I hated putting that big needle into those poor little things.

 

@Dashiehopefully you can get it sorted as per the advice above.

[_PL_]

2 hours ago, asal said:

 

 

no such thing as a "blank chip"  they all come numbered.

 

 

 

Meaning there is no information attached to the chip number. Aka blank. 

[asal]

17 hours ago, Powerlegs said:

 

Meaning there is no information attached to the chip number. Aka blank. 

 

 

the ONLY information on a normal chip is the number.  there is nothing else on it. its an inert until a scanner activates the number.   The only time I have had a chip not read when I know its there , is when the battery of the scanner is too low to pick up the number, new battery in the scanner and up comes the number.

 

years ago before I learned that, chipped a pup after checking the chip with the scanner. and when it was now in the pup no number? called the chip supplier who said it must be a faulty chip. put in another and I will replace the faulty chip.   put in another and it too wouldnt scan.   but finally the scanner beeped low battery. it was scanning the number in the packet but had been too low to scan the chip in the dog. with the skin between?  new batteries and the poor pup now had two chips reading fine.

 

there are special ones that cost more that when you scan them give the dogs tempretature but i have never seen them only read abut them I expect they would be pretty expensive and not even they give you the owners name and address. the whole purpose of the chip is to give its number. which then is put into the data bank and tells you the details of the dog entered .   

Edited March 31, 2023 by asal

[asal]

20 hours ago, jemappelle said:

I used to be a microchip implanter and had to enter my own records on the database and give the new owners a copy of the paperwork.  Once I found a chip on the floor so obviously I had stuffed that one up and had to redo that kitten.  Kittens are hard to do as the skin where it goes is quite thick and difficult to pierce and puppies often scream when they get there's.  I gave it up after a couple of years as I hated putting that big needle into those poor little things.

 

@Dashiehopefully you can get it sorted as per the advice above.

 

 

which is why I changed to the mini chips the second they were available, half the size

[swazzie]

Zeus breeder signed the microchip paper all good, but because I’m not a paper person I just went online to the AAR website  filled in the number , offical pups name , my details and paid fee and two days later I got a email with the transfer of chip ownership cert.

I don’t know if they actually check with the breeder as I didn’t haven’t to upload the paperwork she had signed !!

 

[Rebanne]

NSW is a different kettle of fish to the other states

[Adrienne]

19 hours ago, swazzie said:

I don’t know if they actually check with the breeder as I didn’t haven’t to upload the paperwork she had signed !!

 

The Breeder would have received an email notifying of the request for ownership change (but not detailing who made the request or what the new ownership details were going to be) and asking them to approve the change. In your case, the Breeder actively approved the change and so the ownership details were updated. If the Breeder had not responded (for whatever reason), the change would have gone ahead anyway after 14 days!

 

It's this I find concerning - that the ownership of a dog seems to be changeable on the registry without actual consent of the current owner... it can be changed in the absence of any response from the owner. I guess this covers off situations where the owner is deceased or uncontactable or geez, life's wild and there could be all kinds of legitimate reasons - but when I realised this I was alarmed. 

 

[swazzie]

Right that makes sense she must have approved it then, as it came through within a couple days. 
But it is concerning if it’s an auto thing about 14 days. I guess it helps for rescue though or the other reasons you listed.