Shelter In Trouble - Coffs Harbour NSW

[tdierikx]

On 24/01/2023 at 10:19 AM, sheena said:

According to the post on Facebook, it is an ongoing battle with RSPCA not doing anything about it & also the council.  It is a nightmare for her neighbours as well as those poor animals

 

 

I'd be thinking of the publicity nightmare if council forced a rescue to close... but, then again, council are probably supplying the animals from their pound as per the new legislation, so I reckon the reason for keeping this rescue going is so council don't get stuck with animals they have to euthanaise due to nowhere to place them elsewhere... rock and a hard place really... *sigh*

 

But RSPCA have shut dodgy rescues down before (there's a current one in SA actually), and gotten their own "positive" publicity for doing so... I wonder why they are so reluctant to do it in this case? As for having to care for animals whilst legal proceedings are ongoing @Powerlegs, they can come up with reasons to euth animals without any recourse from the owners already (and routinely do so) - all they need to do is say that the animals in question are behaviourally or medically untreatable, and *poof", dead dogs, unfortunately.

 

T.

[Papillon Kisses]

SAHARA is another. Fined $6500 for animal cruelty and neglect, after negotiating more than 30 charges down to 6, and were immediately back on social media asking for donations to the rescue.

[tdierikx]

13 hours ago, Papillon Kisses said:

SAHARA is another. Fined $6500 for animal cruelty and neglect, after negotiating more than 30 charges down to 6, and were immediately back on social media asking for donations to the rescue.

 

And this is where the biggest problem lies... the general concept perpetuated is that rescuers can do no wrong because they are "saving lives"... but in some instances, what exactly are they "saving" these animals from if they can't effectively care for the animals they take in?

 

While I definitely agree that there are some truly amazing and well run rescues who are doing an excellent job and staying within their own limitations... there are so many more who really shouldn't be in the industry at all. The time for formal regulation of the industry is well and truly here methinks.

 

T.

[_PL_]

3 hours ago, tdierikx said:

 

While I definitely agree that there are some truly amazing and well run rescues who are doing an excellent job and staying within their own limitations... there are so many more who really shouldn't be in the industry at all. The time for formal regulation of the industry is well and truly here methinks.

 

T.

 

I'm sad that we can't self regulate. So another party with no actual on-the-ground experience needs to step in. Mistakes will be made and it's going to be a rocky journey but needs to happen. 

[tdierikx]

17 hours ago, Powerlegs said:

 

I'm sad that we can't self regulate. So another party with no actual on-the-ground experience needs to step in. Mistakes will be made and it's going to be a rocky journey but needs to happen. 

 

I agree @Powerlegs... self regulation used to work reasonably well in the rescue arena, but more recently, it seems to have been taken over by proponents of the animal rights movement who believe anything with a pulse must be "saved", regardless the outcome for the animal or the people who end up with unsuitable pets. The other major issue was have is that animal welfare legislation is constantly being challenged and changed by people from that movement who have managed to get themselves elected to political office... so it's going to be an uphill battle to make sure that common sense legislative change happens, rather than legislation that is actually designed to make pet ownership so hard that we end up not owning pets at all (which is actually the agenda of the animal rights movement).

 

T.

[~Anne~]

1 hour ago, tdierikx said:

 

I agree @Powerlegs... self regulation used to work reasonably well in the rescue arena, but more recently, it seems to have been taken over by proponents of the animal rights movement who believe anything with a pulse must be "saved", regardless the outcome for the animal or the people who end up with unsuitable pets. The other major issue was have is that animal welfare legislation is constantly being challenged and changed by people from that movement who have managed to get themselves elected to political office... so it's going to be an uphill battle to make sure that common sense legislative change happens, rather than legislation that is actually designed to make pet ownership so hard that we end up not owning pets at all (which is actually the agenda of the animal rights movement).

 

T.

I don’t think that’s new and I don’t think there was any notable self-regulation ever. I first became involved with animal welfare almost 40 years ago and it’s been over 20 years since I first kicked off my rescue, after being a foster carer first. 
 

Rescue has needed regulation from day one. I’ve witnessed ignorance, naivety, stupidity, cruelty and abuse by rescuers and this is not just today, but ever since I first became involved in animal welfare. 
 

I don’t believe the extreme thoughts and actions of some animal rights activists is the cause. Rescue is largely the domain of average people who love animals. Very few are business savvy, financial managers or knowledgeable about the legislative pieces they should be operating under. As you’ve said before, they rule with their hearts, not their heads and THAT is the biggest issue in my view. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by ~Anne~

[DogsAndTheMob]

Their Facebook page says that they are closing and asks that people stop contacting them about animals needing rescue.

 

I haven’t been involved in rescue, so my comments are only based on my experience with animals in other contexts. However…

 

The rescue premises shown in the news stories do not look large enough to safely house multiple animals of different species including dogs, cats , goats, rabbits and birds. I have a larger acreage and a smaller number of animals, and it takes money, work and careful management to keep all my animals safe and happy.

 

Question for experienced rescuers: could rescuers avoid problems by starting with a “business plan” that sets clear limits on what they will do (I.e. species and numbers) and identifies options for referral elsewhere?

 

 

[_PL_]

2 hours ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

 

 

Question for experienced rescuers: could rescuers avoid problems by starting with a “business plan” that sets clear limits on what they will do (I.e. species and numbers) and identifies options for referral elsewhere?

 

 

 

We have a mission statement that's been in place for years. One extremely relevant one recently is.... 
So yes, we operate 'no-kill' in it's original form, that is misinterpreted now all over the place as never PTS even a broken dog. 
 

Quote

SSR Rescue Philosophy and the Community
Members agree to balance the fundamental SSR purpose of rescue-rehabilitate-rehome and goal of minimal euthanasia , with the community need for confidence and trust in rescue animals.

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Powerlegs

[~Anne~]

2 hours ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

Their Facebook page says that they are closing and asks that people stop contacting them about animals needing rescue.

 

I haven’t been involved in rescue, so my comments are only based on my experience with animals in other contexts. However…

 

The rescue premises shown in the news stories do not look large enough to safely house multiple animals of different species including dogs, cats , goats, rabbits and birds. I have a larger acreage and a smaller number of animals, and it takes money, work and careful management to keep all my animals safe and happy.

 

Question for experienced rescuers: could rescuers avoid problems by starting with a “business plan” that sets clear limits on what they will do (I.e. species and numbers) and identifies options for referral elsewhere?

 

 

Most definitely they could avoid some problems by having a plan - ANY plan. That's the issue. Many don't consider rescue a business, which is the gravest error made.

 

For all intents and purposes it is a business. One that often relies on charity and one that doesn't use the language of 'profit' unless it is in the Not For Profit way, but it should be managed as a business and it should have plans, policies and goals. 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by ~Anne~

[~Anne~]

I still recall my very first foster. Sam, who looked a little like a fox, and who was gravely unwell. I collected him from an 'interim' carer, after work. I later found out he'd been collected from the pound the same day I collected him from the other carer. He was in a house with multiple other dogs and and he did not undergo any quarantine.

 

Within an hour of collecting him I rang the org owner and explained the dog was unwell. I was told he was probably just stressed. I argued this as I didn't believe it was stress. I kept him apart from my dogs as much as I could as I had no idea why he was unwell. Throughout the night he vomited, and he would not eat or drink. I rang the same person again the next morning and said the dog was not well. This time she asked me to drive him out to her Vet. He was dead the next day. I was told it was corona virus but who knows - I didn't have much faith in the vet either from what I saw of the clinic and him.

 

This was my FIRST foster. I was new to the org, new to fostering and had 2 of my own dogs. 

 

That is how unregulated rescue is. At least I had some idea and experience - imagine how many foster carers are subjected to this kind of appalling mismanagement, not to mention the risk to my own dogs, the emotional stress and the poor dog which was suffering the entire time!

 

[tdierikx]

It is possible to run a rescue as a business that actually not only funds itself, but even makes a profit... but unfortunately, those that even attempt to do so are often vilified by those who seem to think that rescues should always be on the brink of bankruptcy (or worse) to be considered "legitimate". What I don't understand is how any business/enterprise/organisation can operate like that and still provide the service they claim to without something going pear-shaped pretty darned quickly - and in the case of rescue, to the detriment of the welfare of the animals in their care... not to mention the emotional toll it takes on carers.

 

Unfortunately, it is those that follow the above ideology that end up giving ALL rescue a bad name by engaging in turnaround (read rehoming rates) based solely on the premise of making more room to "save" more animals... meanwhile having multiple GoFundMe campaigns going etc... and this, in turn, means that more unsuitable animals are being farmed out to the community and perpetuating the myth that ALL rescue animals are "damaged" or "broken" in some way. This model is NOT sustainable...

 

I would hold SSR up as a good example of how a rescue should be run... and when you consider that their area of expertise is senior dogs that may have a number of medical issues that need treating before rehoming is even thought about... that is no mean feat. Major kudos to @Powerlegset al who are involved there... you guys are awesome!

 

T.

[tdierikx]

5 minutes ago, ~Anne~ said:

I still recall my very first foster. Sam, who looked a little like a fox, and who was gravely unwell. I collected him from an 'interim' carer, after work. I later found out he'd been collected from the pound the same day I collected him from the other carer. He was in a house with multiple other dogs and and he did not undergo any quarantine.

 

Within an hour of collecting him I rang the org owner and explained the dog was unwell. I was told he was probably just stressed. I argued this as I didn't believe it was stress. I kept him apart from my dogs as much as I could as I had no idea why he was unwell. Throughout the night he vomited, and he would not eat or drink. I rang the same person again the next morning and said the dog was not well. This time she asked me to drive him out to her Vet. He was dead the next day. I was told it was corona virus but who knows - I didn't have much faith in the vet either from what I saw of the clinic and him.

 

This was my FIRST foster. I was new to the org, new to fostering and had 2 of my own dogs. 

 

That is how unregulated rescue is. At least I had some idea and experience - imagine how many foster carers are subjected to this kind of appalling mismanagement, not to mention the risk to my own dogs, the emotional stress and the poor dog which was suffering the entire time!

 

 

100% agree @~Anne~

 

As for coronavirus in dogs, it can and does present in almost exactly the same way as parvovirus... think of it as the poor cousin of same. The upside of coronavirus is that it's survival in the environment is MUCH shorter than parvo.

 

One of my recommendations for any regulation of the rescue industry would be for at least one person that is running the organisation. or in a senior position and allowed to make decisions with autonomy, to have some formal qualification in animal care - be that a TAFE Cert (I'd stipulate Cert III Animal Studies as a minimum there, or even a Vet Nursing cert) - or other proven hands-on experience with the species they will be caring for (such as that of people like @Powerlegs). Foster carers could have or need to get a Cert II Animal Studies before they are allowed to take in foster animals, or again, some proven hands-on experience with the species they will be caring for. That may have the benefit of slowing down those with no freaking clue getting involved and actually creating poorer welfare outcomes for the animals they want to "save".

 

T.

[Little Gifts]

When I was a kid (back in the 60s) my parents rescued and rehabbed a lot of animals, usually word of mouth stuff. My mum was a human nurse and that was literally the only skills they had. They eventually opened an animal fun park with many of the unreleasable animals. Some animals were able to be engaged with and others were in cages and enclosures (fairly decent ones). We had lots of staff to care for them and monitor them but till noone had any professional animal care skills. My parents would take in anything - I remember we once had a sick penguin in and it lived in the big outdoor run with the guinea pigs. Is that good? No idea but it was rehabilitated and released. 

 

That was the start of my animal loving journey. Later, in the 90s I was a foster carer for the RSPCA who also went and cleaned and socialised the animals (mainly puppies) at their main shelter. I did that for many years until I could no longer stand the neglect that was happening. They allowed us less and less responsibility and the staff were never around to do the important stuff. I was guilted into things I didn't want to do too. We were no longer allowed to feed the animals so we'd have poor puppies starving for breakfast and we were allowed to 'socialise' them when all they wanted was food. Same with the adult dogs - we could take them for walks but it was heading on to lunchtime and still nothing to eat since the afternoon before and they were scared they would miss out if they left their run. None of those dogs was presenting themselves well for potential adopters either. Saw lots of other horrible stuff happen that I wont go into, but they are supposed to be our animal welfare standard and enforcement agency. What hope do we have with independant rescues when they are the yardstick?

 

And I've said it multiple times before - if the RSPCA was doing what the general public thinks it is doing for all creatures great and small then we wouldn't even need all these hundreds of independant rescue groups. Nope, we would have a great agency that we all looked up to knowing animals in need were in safe hands. Instead we can't even rely on them to do their statutory functions effectively and in a timely manner.

[_PL_]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/council-to-shut-down-hoarder-animal-shelter-after-complaints-040026765.html 

 

Latest news. Sorry, it's Yahoo again. 

[_PL_]

7 hours ago, ~Anne~ said:

I still recall my very first foster. Sam, who looked a little like a fox, and who was gravely unwell. I collected him from an 'interim' carer, after work. I later found out he'd been collected from the pound the same day I collected him from the other carer. He was in a house with multiple other dogs and and he did not undergo any quarantine.

 

Ah yes.  An interim carer. Handed dogs in the days PTS was on the dot. No backup, no quarantine. Often just nice women who couldn't say no. 

The one we found was also BYB amongst all the rest of the pound dogs.  

[tdierikx]

I must say that fostering definitely built upon my own dog owning/handling skills... and I found that my "niche" was puppies. I got to help raise very young pups to be happy, healthy and socially acceptable little canine citizens... and it was a job I took very seriously. It may also have been one of the reasons that I went on to get all the TAFE quals I now have - Cert II and III Animal Studies, Cert III Captive Animals (Zookeeping), and Cert IV Vet Nursing. I can actually say from experience that any of those quals would be very useful for any foster carer to have...

 

I am currently applying to do another TAFE course... Cert IV Training and Assessment... so I can hopefully teach some of those animal industry courses. I reckon there may also be room to suggest development of another course specifically designed for those wanting to get into, or currently work in rescue... or even integrate some content regarding sound rescue practices into some of the current courses - could be offered as an elective or stand alone short course subject even. I really think that some formal understanding of current animal husbandry and the legislation that governs these things would be extremely helpful/useful to anyone involved in any form of companion animal rescue... like WIRES and Sydney Wildlife run before they allow anyone to take on wildlife fostering. The system probably wouldn't be without it's flaws, but it would definitely be a start...

 

T.

[_PL_]

On 27/01/2023 at 12:40 PM, tdierikx said:

 

 

I would hold SSR up as a good example of how a rescue should be run... and when you consider that their area of expertise is senior dogs that may have a number of medical issues that need treating before rehoming is even thought about... that is no mean feat. Major kudos to @Powerlegset al who are involved there... you guys are awesome!

 

T.

 

Thank you T  there are rescues I can think of off the top of my head that really do have their act together. I'd guess none would call themselves 'perfect', once you think you are, you stop learning how to improve IMHO.

 

(You'd remember. There was a book about foster care/rescue written by a Doler. + A written course run by an alternative registry which I didn't do for some reason.)

[~Anne~]

1 hour ago, Powerlegs said:

 

Thank you T  there are rescues I can think of off the top of my head that really do have their act together. I'd guess none would call themselves 'perfect', once you think you are, you stop learning how to improve IMHO.

 

(You'd remember. There was a book about foster care/rescue written by a Doler. + A written course run by an alternative registry which I didn't do for some reason.)

I did the course - at least I started it. I can’t recall if I finished all of the units. It was pretty simple and probably too easy for me. I also recall the book. 
 

The intention of the course was great and well considered. It’s a shame it didn’t continue as a real registered course. There’s something that someone should investigate… 

Edited January 29, 2023 by ~Anne~

[tdierikx]

16 hours ago, Powerlegs said:

(You'd remember. There was a book about foster care/rescue written by a Doler. + A written course run by an alternative registry which I didn't do for some reason.)

 

I have that book, and like @~Anne~I started the course run by MDBA... and yes, it was fairly simple, and I also never completed it for some reason. I also agree that maybe now is the time for something like that to be included at least as an elective for one of the TAFE Animal Studies courses, or possibly as a stand-alone certificate of attainment course designed specifically for those who want to get involved in rescue.

 

I think once I've done my Cert IV in Training and Assessment, I might have to look into how to get something like that happening. The rescue industry is getting larger by the day, and something is needed to at least allow those wanting to be involved to know exactly what they are getting into, and how to do it with the best welfare outcomes for the animals.

 

T.

[~Anne~]

I’d imagine you’d need to write the content, apply for it to be a recognised course (which is the hardest part of the process) and find an RTO to deliver it (or become registered as a training org yourself).