Puppy stopped suckling ? Wont suckle anymore ? Stopped at 7 days old

[jjj8]

9 hours ago, Boronia said:

as soon a a supermarket is open whizz there and buy a packet of fenugreek seeds, make a tea with them and get that tea into the pups mother. Fenugreek is an amazing milk-increaser

here is an old Dogz post about fenugreek

If you don't have any at home (though if you make chutney or curries you probably will) Coles have it  here  Woolies don't seem to have it

You may be late for work

 

Okay i will do get some. Do i add it to her water or do i give it to her on the side ? 

[jjj8]

4 hours ago, Rebanne said:

after the vet visit and all check out make sure to get some maxalon or a script for it at least it helps with milk production.

 

I tube fed a pup for the first time ever in the middle of the night after watching youtube video's. It was that or let the pup die. He's a hulking big boy now at 5 years old. He would look like he was suckling but he was just going trough the motions.

 

Keep in mind the more the pups take forma bottle or tube the less they will suck on their Mum so she will make less milk.

 

If you can get them to 3 weeks old then you can start with other foods.

Will the vet give me that quote ? 

Yes thats what mine is doing it looks like he is taking some milk but then i weigh him ( i weigh him before i start feeding and after ) and his weight is like 1 gram more or somthing.

Would a oxytocin i injection help ? 

[jjj8]

Guys i called my vet they said a oxytocin i injection may help is that true ? 

[tdierikx]

7 minutes ago, jjj8 said:

Guys i called my vet they said a oxytocin i injection may help is that true ? 

 

Oxytocin may help stimulate milk production, but the most important thing right now is that mum and the pups ALL need to physically be looked at by a vet NOW.

 

I cannot stress enough how much you need to actually take them to see the vet... it may literally be a life or death matter for the pups... and possibly also for the mother dog. Simply calling and getting advice over the phone is not actually going to cut it this time. You said you were "inexperienced", please just take them to the vet ASAP...

 

T.

[Deeds]

Oxytocin can stimulate and increase the secretion of milk.

[moosmum]

There are a lot of things that may help, but your vet is the only one who can decide what is needed. Yes, consult fee and injection might be all you need. You are not obligated to pay for more than you agree to. At least you will have a better idea that what you are already paying for is actually doing the job, and you have some thing at the end for your efforts

 

I hope mum has not retained a pup or placenta.

 

Vets/nurses will rarely recommend any treatment until they can see what they are treating.

Edited December 22, 2022 by moosmum

[Deeds]

Absolutely agree with all @tdierikx has said above.  Take the dog & pups to a vet ASAP.

[Rebanne]

I believe you can get premie teats for bottles which may be more acceptable for you small breed puppy.

Can you ask the breeder of your girl or the stud dog owner for advice?

[coneye]

Mmmm Not going to comment on what you should do or need to do , lots on here with far more experience than me have told you ,,, But what does  make me raise my eyebrows is your vet ,, you obviously seem a bit distressed and fair enough too that ,, but i'm suprised the vet or his assistant have not said bring them down straight away  , and related to you the urgency that others on here have related .

Since personaly i don't have a lot of confidence in most my local vets ,, couple of great ones but mostly  just about the dollars ,  but  i would be looking at a different vet maybee , one that can tell  your inexperience and anxiety and     work it out accordingly

[Boronia]

how are the puppies and their mother this afternoon @jjj8?

[Dogsfevr]

We never use wombaroo.

We use premmie teats and bottle feed every 2 hrs .

Every 8 hrs is not a choice .

 

We have also tube feed and it is not easy and gas big issues if done wrong and it's very easy to do wrong .

 

There a plenty of old recipes that can be used but that's based on the fact your savvy and the vet is savvy .

 

Both pups aren't gaining weight in the manner I would expect and if her milk is low neither will thrive .

 

 

We use goats milk with thickened  cream added and bottle raised countless pups BUT there feed on a regular schedule.

We have used special brews when required to get pups up j going but this is after our vet being involved a breeder vet .

Some pups can be bad suckers especially when getting dehydrated and going flat .

The runs may be due to the milk formula,her milk may be going blah .

But bottle feeding will happen you have to keep on top off it and not over feeding some pups are hard work but 8 hrs is not going to head help .

Vet still sounds like a nob .

But 

[jjj8]

Hey guys i took them to the vet

 

They checked mum and pups.

Mum is fine they gave her the injection of oxi and maxalon

And if the injections work and she produces milk to come back in and get the maxalon tablets for her.

 

They told me i have to bottle feed and if she doesnt produce milk obviously bottle feed till i wean them.

The nurse showed me how to tube feed and gave me a few tips pretty much what i learnt on youtube. She told me the smaller one does need to be tube fed if he doesnt suck on the bottle.

Neither puppies seem to have issues.

 

The bigger pup keeps gaining weight his literally 50 grams heavier atm.

 

I do have a question ive been syringe feeding the weak pup 7 mls every 2 hrs and i put all the 7 mls in him eventually and yes a little bit drips out his mouth here and there but then when i weigh him after i feed him his weight doesnt change or maybe he adds 1 gram ??? It doesnt make any sense and im so confused.  

 

I went to coles but couldent find the fenugreek .

 

This was a planed litter but after this i wont be breeding my dogs again i also own the stud. This is too much and im so stressed out . Took so many days off work . Spent so much at the vets i belive the vets are designed to make you spend as much as possible it just seems that way

 

Hopefully the pull through.  I have the next 4 days off work. Once i head back into work my sister told me she can come over and give them 2 feedings while im at work and ill continue once back home and hopefully i can get them to 3/4 weeks where they lap food then eat. Im just worried about the smaller one the bigger one im not worried about at all

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by jjj8

[jjj8]

1 hour ago, Dogsfevr said:

We never use wombaroo.

We use premmie teats and bottle feed every 2 hrs .

Every 8 hrs is not a choice .

 

We have also tube feed and it is not easy and gas big issues if done wrong and it's very easy to do wrong .

 

There a plenty of old recipes that can be used but that's based on the fact your savvy and the vet is savvy .

 

Both pups aren't gaining weight in the manner I would expect and if her milk is low neither will thrive .

 

 

We use goats milk with thickened  cream added and bottle raised countless pups BUT there feed on a regular schedule.

We have used special brews when required to get pups up j going but this is after our vet being involved a breeder vet .

Some pups can be bad suckers especially when getting dehydrated and going flat .

The runs may be due to the milk formula,her milk may be going blah .

But bottle feeding will happen you have to keep on top off it and not over feeding some pups are hard work but 8 hrs is not going to head help .

Vet still sounds like a nob .

But 

Just so you know when i said 8 hrs i meant normal 3 hrs feedings but when i went to work it would be a one 8 hrs gap till i got back then back to 3 hrs. But during that time the mum still had some milk so i figured they would suckle some milk till i got back .now its different as she has no milk left

[jjj8]

7 hours ago, Rebanne said:

I believe you can get premie teats for bottles which may be more acceptable for you small breed puppy.

Can you ask the breeder of your girl or the stud dog owner for advice?

Hey i have one bottle thats 0 - 3 months old . And i have a bunch of different teats i brought off Amazon 

[tdierikx]

@jjj8I know that vets are sometimes expensive, but when you have an emergency, they are the better option than asking questions on an internet forum, OK? If any of us could have given advice that wasn't going to adversely affect any of your little family, we would have... just in this case the situation was such that only a full physical examination of all of them by a vet was required - if only to rule out possible major issues with mum dog or the weaker pup.

 

I'm sorry that your first foray into breeding has gone so pear shaped, but that is always a possibility with any breeding...

 

I wouldn't focus too much on weighing the littler pup straight after feeding, contrary to popular belief, the weight gain will never be the same as what has been ingested. I would be more likely to weight them maybe every second day to see if he's gaining weight at a reasonable or acceptable rate instead. If he's gaining and hitting other milestones alongside his stronger brother, then that may just be how he is going to develop... no 2 pups will gain weight or hit milestones exactly the same way, but as long as he's headed in a positive direction there, he should do fine in the end.

 

Definitely keep the pups with mum dog between bottle feeds, and I'd refrain from tube feeding if you can get the required amount into him via bottle or syringe... tubing should only be the last resort, as it will have fatal consequences if you get it wrong.

 

Hopefully the oxytocin shot will help stimulate mum dog to start producing milk again, and keeping pups with her may also help that stimulation, not to mention that she will keep them warm and clean. She may stop cleaning them while they are being formula fed, so please keep an eye on that, and try to stimulate both pups to wee and poo after you have fed them - a warm damp cloth gently wiped on their genitals and anus will simulate mum's tongue and should result in some wee or poo, OK?

 

My preference for puppy milk formula is DiVetelact... it works for dogs, cats, goats/sheep, etc... but if your vet says the formula you have is right for pups, then all good. If pup is reluctant to take to it, maybe a very small amount of honey or molasses in it may sweeten it enough to make him more interested. That trick has worked for me with pups, kittens, fox kits, dingo pups, goats, sheep, and calves... so it's worth a try.

 

Has the vet suggested any calcium increases in mum dog's diet to also help with her milk production? Maybe giving her some of the formula milk once or twice a day may help there - alongside her regular food, she may see it as a nice treat, and it will certainly not do her any harm. Feeding her a puppy formula food will also help with added calcium needs while lactating.

 

Fingers crossed little man finally works out that bottles are good for him, and he starts to co-operate by drinking his bottles for you soon. Small mercies that he's a tiny breed and you only have to get relatively small amounts into him... try having a reluctant 20kg calf that needs to get 2 litres in at each feed... that's NOT fun at all... errr!

 

T.

[Boronia]

@jjj8 the fenugreek seeds are also available at health food shops and Asian or Indian grocers and in capsule form at Chemist Warehouse. A  list of where to buy in this linkie here

about 1 teaspoon of seeds to 1 cup boiling water, let steep or 5--10 minutes then strain off the seeds. if you have one of those little one cup tea strainers/balls that you can put the seeds into they are good

[moosmum]

Great new!

We have all been worried about you and your little family. We will be a lot happier giving advise now we have the all clear, and hope your stress levels are down more too. It is horribly stressful when things go wrong.  You haven't had an easy time for a 1st time breeder. Good for you coming here and asking /taking advise,  and for your dedication to seeing these little guys pull through.

 

You asked earlier was the tea given to mum or put on- pretty sure its given to mum. may syringe a little into her mouth at a time. In her water, she may just not drink. Hope we keep hearing how things are going. We are here to help where we can.

Edited December 22, 2022 by moosmum

[Boronia]

The fenugreek tea is given to mum; mix with some unsweetened yoghurt or goats milk or with her mince she will probably find it yummy

[Rebanne]

Things are sounding much more positive for you and your little family

[Loving my Oldies]

Such good news that you have pulled your little family through this far.  Hopefully the next couple of weeks will see everything slot into place and you can enjoy them.

 

You have done a sterling job and are to be congratulated.