Puppy stopped suckling ? Wont suckle anymore ? Stopped at 7 days old

[Deeds]

@Rebanne Is it Applaws the food you were thinking of.

[Deeds]

Sorry @Rebanne.  Not Applaws.  Looks like our posts went off at the same time.

[asal]

3 hours ago, Rebanne said:

Most breeders I know, me included start off with a "pink slushie" which is puppy milk and raw mince. If you go the tin food route don't just buy the pal puppy food. There is a better food for them, the name eludes me at the moment. If you go to one of the bigger pet shops they should have it in stock. It's a mousse type food.

 

too true, I used to sing my own version of "top breeders avoid Pal!"  the tinned stuff is awful, well unless you love smelly runny doo's that is.

[Dogsfevr]

We start our puppies on human baby farex and goats milk.

The RC puppy mousse is a good option in your case .

.

 

Syringing your way is hard and not ideal but it's working I guess .

 

[jjj8]

10 hours ago, asal said:

 

too true, I used to sing my own version of "top breeders avoid Pal!"  the tinned stuff is awful, well unless you love smelly runny doo's that is.

So pal is the pedigree puppy food right ? 

[jjj8]

5 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

We start our puppies on human baby farex and goats milk.

The RC puppy mousse is a good option in your case .

.

 

Syringing your way is hard and not ideal but it's working I guess .

 

Nippe on a syringe or a bottle would be the most effective way aye ? 

[asal]

2 hours ago, jjj8 said:

So pal is the pedigree puppy food right ? 

 

Didn't think mine did as well with the dry puppy food. Compared with the other brands.

 

they call both products "Pedigree Pal I think?   

As for  the tinned. Made them so runny and smelly,  never again 

Edited December 25, 2022 by asal

[Amazetl]

Search ‘Leerburg formula’ there is an easy recipe for puppy formula. There are powder ones at the pet shops but can sometimes be hard to find. Di-vetelact is one of the best. 

 

You can test the suckle on your finger if need. They should automatically suckle on it and you can then tell if they have a good suckle reflex. 

 

Baby bottles work better than bottles designed for puppies. A normal newborn teat should work, though I’ve never had experience with such a small breed so someone else may know better there.

 

Make sure puppy isn’t on back when given bottle and that milk is in the teat so no air is ingested. Burp them over shoulder afterwards like a human baby (not too hard though). You’ll want to sterilise everything too. Make some extra bottles up for that day and keep in fridge then heat in proper bottle heater or on stove. Test it on your arm before giving it. Not too warm but not cold. 

 

Edited to add: Also don’t tip bottle up high. 

 

It can take a couple hours of continuous trying sometimes (and lots of screaming and crying) before they finally suckle on a bottle, sometimes. If mum doesn’t produce enough milk pups can become weak and find it hard to then suckle on her. They will try to get every drop out and keep trying each teat in a bit of a panic and then give up and cry. 

 

I know some people have advised not to use dairy but plain vanilla ice cream really does wonders for dog milk production, also has natural calcium for mum and gives her strength. 

 

You can also get a tube filled gel called Nutripet by Troy. It is a meal replacement for sick dogs and a boost for nursing mums or low milk production. It works wonders too. You can even give just a drop on your finger of it to newborn pups for an extra boost, but only a little. 

 

Other than that, feed newborns every two hours until they gain a bit and then can stretch to 3 hours and continue as they get older. You can go a bit longer at nights and then by a few weeks or so just a bottle before bed (late at night) and one early first thing. And still bottles through the day.

 

They usually drink more from a bottle than from mum at any one time so once they are a bit older you can stretch it out to early morning, mid morning, lunch, afternoon, evening, late at night, then a little older take out a couple of the day ones. They’ll let you know by the look of their bellies if they have too much or too little.

 

They can start drinking their formula from a bowl when they are a few weeks old but they might not take to it quickly so will still need bottles. The first solids are all about play so they may not eat much the first few times but get it everywhere. So will need bottles until they start properly eating. 

 

Do not ever leave newborns to not have milk for 8 hours, not even a few hours. They fade fast. Take time off work. 

 

Make sure she’s peeing and pooping them. If not get a warm wet cotton ball or cloth and gently dab the privates (both) until it comes out and then clean them up. Do this regularly along with bottle. 

 

Keep them warm those first couple weeks and you will have some success. Make sure mum doesn’t step on them or lie on them. 

 

Good luck. Most of us have no idea what puppy raising can actually be like and aren’t cut out for it. No shame in that at all. 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Amazetl

[Boronia]

How are things going this morning @jjj8?

[jjj8]

Guys is there a website you guys go on to by the nipples for the pups etc? Amazon has alot of knock off ones with bad reviews

I want to try and find one that they just love to suckle on basically 

[Rebanne]

https://whelpingsupplies.com.au/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkYb39aWe_AIVTH8rCh1mng9lEAAYASAAEgKW3PD_BwE

 

just read they are closed to next Tuesday but if you send them an email they might be able to put your order to the top of the queue

Edited December 29, 2022 by Rebanne

[Boronia]

1 hour ago, jjj8 said:

Guys is there a website you guys go on to by the nipples for the pups etc? Amazon has alot of knock off ones with bad reviews

I want to try and find one that they just love to suckle on basically 

your vet may have some

[jjj8]

On 26/12/2022 at 5:36 AM, Amazetl said:

Search ‘Leerburg formula’ there is an easy recipe for puppy formula. There are powder ones at the pet shops but can sometimes be hard to find. Di-vetelact is one of the best. 

 

You can test the suckle on your finger if need. They should automatically suckle on it and you can then tell if they have a good suckle reflex. 

 

Baby bottles work better than bottles designed for puppies. A normal newborn teat should work, though I’ve never had experience with such a small breed so someone else may know better there.

 

Make sure puppy isn’t on back when given bottle and that milk is in the teat so no air is ingested. Burp them over shoulder afterwards like a human baby (not too hard though). You’ll want to sterilise everything too. Make some extra bottles up for that day and keep in fridge then heat in proper bottle heater or on stove. Test it on your arm before giving it. Not too warm but not cold. 

 

Edited to add: Also don’t tip bottle up high. 

 

It can take a couple hours of continuous trying sometimes (and lots of screaming and crying) before they finally suckle on a bottle, sometimes. If mum doesn’t produce enough milk pups can become weak and find it hard to then suckle on her. They will try to get every drop out and keep trying each teat in a bit of a panic and then give up and cry. 

 

I know some people have advised not to use dairy but plain vanilla ice cream really does wonders for dog milk production, also has natural calcium for mum and gives her strength. 

 

You can also get a tube filled gel called Nutripet by Troy. It is a meal replacement for sick dogs and a boost for nursing mums or low milk production. It works wonders too. You can even give just a drop on your finger of it to newborn pups for an extra boost, but only a little. 

 

Other than that, feed newborns every two hours until they gain a bit and then can stretch to 3 hours and continue as they get older. You can go a bit longer at nights and then by a few weeks or so just a bottle before bed (late at night) and one early first thing. And still bottles through the day.

 

They usually drink more from a bottle than from mum at any one time so once they are a bit older you can stretch it out to early morning, mid morning, lunch, afternoon, evening, late at night, then a little older take out a couple of the day ones. They’ll let you know by the look of their bellies if they have too much or too little.

 

They can start drinking their formula from a bowl when they are a few weeks old but they might not take to it quickly so will still need bottles. The first solids are all about play so they may not eat much the first few times but get it everywhere. So will need bottles until they start properly eating. 

 

Do not ever leave newborns to not have milk for 8 hours, not even a few hours. They fade fast. Take time off work. 

 

Make sure she’s peeing and pooping them. If not get a warm wet cotton ball or cloth and gently dab the privates (both) until it comes out and then clean them up. Do this regularly along with bottle. 

 

Keep them warm those first couple weeks and you will have some success. Make sure mum doesn’t step on them or lie on them. 

 

Good luck. Most of us have no idea what puppy raising can actually be like and aren’t cut out for it. No shame in that at all. 

When you say dont leave new borns for 8 hrs we are talking the first week right ? 

I read online after 2 weeks you can give them 5 feedings in 24 hrs so thats around every 4/5 hrs .

So they can manage a long 6 hr stretch after 2 weeks old ? The older they are the less frequent the meals have to be right ? 

Would you say at 3 weeks 4 weeks old they can cope with just one 8 hr stretch? 

Would they start licking milk when they can walk ? Which would be 3.5/ 4 weeks ? 

Yeah i actually brought one of those bottles but when i tried it with them they didnt take it maybe they will now.

So you only use the baby bottles on your pups no syringe/nipples ? 

I like the syringe because i can load it up to exactly how much i want to feed them. With the bottle if i start feeding them with it ill have to start weighing the bottle in grams before and after they eat so i know how much they drink aye ? 

Ive noticed if i put barly anything in the bottle say 15mls then i cant really squeeze it and get anything out of it

 

[jjj8]

On 27/12/2022 at 7:26 AM, Boronia said:

How are things going this morning @jjj8?

Hey other then me been  Sleep deprived things are going well

Small one is 509 grams now and big one is 565 grams 

This comming up money they will be 3 weeks old. And thier eyes are opening up now and i can tell they will be able to walk soon .

 

The mother has milk only in 1 teat she has alot and its really full and lumpy and hard so im squeezing it abit to help her. Im not sure which is giving her the milk the fenugreek or the moxolon tabs im giving her. 

 

It is kind of anoyying that she produces milk then doesnt if she didnt at all then ill know exactly how much milk to give the pups but because she has milk somtimes i weight them to have a idea if they have been drinking etc 

[jjj8]

5 hours ago, Rebanne said:

https://whelpingsupplies.com.au/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkYb39aWe_AIVTH8rCh1mng9lEAAYASAAEgKW3PD_BwE

 

just read they are closed to next Tuesday but if you send them an email they might be able to put your order to the top of the queue

Should i get the mini nipple ? Of the mini and original nipple you think ? 

[Boronia]

6 hours ago, jjj8 said:

Hey other then me been  Sleep deprived things are going well

Small one is 509 grams now and big one is 565 grams 

This comming up money they will be 3 weeks old. And thier eyes are opening up now and i can tell they will be able to walk soon .

 

The mother has milk only in 1 teat she has alot and its really full and lumpy and hard so im squeezing it abit to help her. Im not sure which is giving her the milk the fenugreek or the moxolon tabs im giving her. 

 

It is kind of anoyying that she produces milk then doesnt if she didnt at all then ill know exactly how much milk to give the pups but because she has milk somtimes i weight them to have a idea if they have been drinking etc 

you have said that her '1 teat she has alot and its really full and lumpy and hard'

Is it red and hot to touch?

 

[Rebanne]

at 3 weeks they can start lapping milk or a pink slushie or mothers mousse. I have heard toy breeds often start later though. I have a large breed so can't help with nipple size.

With only 2 pups to feed you would find it very hard to find any milk. It's very deceptive. But I am concerned about the hard lumpy breast. You can stop giving the maxalon etc.

If the pups are taking the bottle then that's what I would be using. I always put more in it then needed and just gave the leftovers to Mum.

[Amazetl]

On 29/12/2022 at 10:35 PM, jjj8 said:

When you say dont leave new borns for 8 hrs we are talking the first week right ? 

I read online after 2 weeks you can give them 5 feedings in 24 hrs so thats around every 4/5 hrs .

So they can manage a long 6 hr stretch after 2 weeks old ? The older they are the less frequent the meals have to be right ? 

Would you say at 3 weeks 4 weeks old they can cope with just one 8 hr stretch? 

Would they start licking milk when they can walk ? Which would be 3.5/ 4 weeks ? 

Yeah i actually brought one of those bottles but when i tried it with them they didnt take it maybe they will now.

So you only use the baby bottles on your pups no syringe/nipples ? 

I like the syringe because i can load it up to exactly how much i want to feed them. With the bottle if i start feeding them with it ill have to start weighing the bottle in grams before and after they eat so i know how much they drink aye ? 

Ive noticed if i put barly anything in the bottle say 15mls then i cant really squeeze it and get anything out of it

 

I’m not a breeder but have had a lot of experience in the past. I was feeding formula milk and puppy gruel (I did wheat biscuits for the first few days but there are better options now) consisting of mostly milk from three weeks old as their first solid meals. They were licking up milk for some days before then but not enough to not also have a bottle.

 

Normally I’d do a morning gruel breaky and then a bottle top up and some formula in the puppy litter bowl as well. Then I’d blend up puppy dry food and mix it with their formula for a lunch meal and late afternoon and a dinner meal. And they’d have a bottle before bed about 11 or 12. Then puppy breakfast first light and repeat, until they started getting the rhythm of eating by themselves.

 

By 4 weeks I’d just do the puppy dry food mush up except prepared it usually by letting it soak in hot water for maybe 15 mins or so until it was all super soft and I could mush it with a fork easy. You don’t want them to choke so you can use the fork to stir it around and run it through it finding any bigger chunks and take them out. I’d usually add formula to it at first. 

 

Feeding them breaky, mid morning, lunch, mid afternoon, dinner and bottle before bed. 

 

At 5 weeks they are really all ready to eat but can find it hard to chew still so I was still doing mush but each day as they got older I would make the food a little more solid until they were eating just soaked dry food by itself. I still bottled at night but it wasn’t necessary if they are eating well. 

 

You should know by looking at how fat or skinny they are, what their poops are like and if they are crying or not. 

 

By 6 weeks people used to have puppies go to new homes (thankfully it’s 8 weeks now), so they should be able to eat dry food properly and require no formula and have a breaky, lunch and dinner. 

 

Puppies should have a lunch meal right up until a few weeks or so into their new homes, but some people can’t do that and the pups are fine. 

 

You will have to get a feel for things yourself as each pup and size can be different. But once they are through those first three weeks you are heading towards safer ground to be able to be more flexible. 

 

If the dropper is working for you and it seems it is and they are now three weeks old, well done!!! They should be toileting on their own now too or just about, some are slower than others. 

 

You’ve done an awesome job to get so far. They will be becoming less fragile now and you can breathe a little easier. You’ll want to get some dewormer and make sure you’re trimming their nails carefully (just use a human clipper for now). There should be a breakdown on google about what to do each week for some guidance. 

 

Basically: 

 

The first two weeks - need bottle if not drinking from mum, keep warm (but not overheat - they can’t regulate their temperature yet), make sure they are toileting through mum’s licking or otherwise use a warm damp cloth to do it yourself and make sure they are gaining weight each day (even two weighs a day and either maintaining the morning weigh in or gaining on it). If no gains then more milk. 

 

On week three they should be toileting on their own or just about to. You can start to give toys and do a dewormer. And you can start solids but they will probably still need milk toppers. 

 

Week four it gets much simpler with the feeding and a lot more focus on getting them used to sights and sounds. 

 

And about week 5 they are pretty much little dogs that should be eating more solids easily. Some are a little slower than others so just watch them and make sure they chew so not to choke. 

 

Mum’s usually naturally start weaning at about 3-4 weeks but some will continue on but they will still need solids by then and the transition can take a week or two. 

 

By 7 weeks they should be able to eat proper dry food and just be like a normal mini dog. 

 

So yes, they could start licking up milk at 3 or 4 weeks, give it a try, just make sure it’s puppy formula and not just regular milk. You can use your finger to dab gently against their mouth so they get a taste but give them time and if they don’t take to it try again later that day and go back to bottles (or dropper). 

 

I’m not sure about the 8 hour stretch. If it’s say 9 am to 5 pm I think they really need a lunch so get home for that or ask someone to do it for you. I wouldn’t let them go without lunch until they are 8 weeks and even then I’d keep lunch going but for work purposes most people don’t and pup is ok. 

 

Sorry that was super long! Best of luck! 

 

Oh, and if the mum dog is having red teats or they feel super hot or they are broken up a bit, get her to the vet. It can turn quickly for a mother dog and she can get very sick and worse. If she is being subdued or not eating or anything out of the normal go immediately. 

 

Edited to add, just a little tip, when they get to 4 weeks and if you want to add some easy milk to their dry food you can use goats milk from the bottle. So no more formula if you want. But if you do a bottle or dropper I’d still make sure it’s formula. 

 

You can also use puppy can food if you don’t want to mush it up yourself. It will be much easier but in my experience some canned food causes messy toilets but I’m sure there are better ones on the market that will be ok. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Amazetl

[persephone]

We do weaning very differently here   It may not work as well for tiny puppies 
From around 3 weeks we give LARGE bones with some meat clinging on . I run a knife across the meat , so it's shredded but still on the bone. 
Puppies LOVE the taste, and start off sucking the meat, getting the juice, then their mouths wark to begin chewing It's a LOT less messy that feeding from bowls . Obviously they are still getting milk from whatever source. 
As time passes, more meat is left on the bones (LARGE, red meat bones)  and chewing becomes stronger and more co ordinated. Then they are introduced to dry puppy food , size according to pup size , so they can pick it up/chew it easily. They also get a pet mince for some meals .

A non-tip heavy bowl of water is ALWAYS available from 3 weeks . They are 'introduced' to the water by gently dipping muzzles onto the surface ...they then find it themselves.

Edited January 2, 2023 by persephone

[Amazetl]

51 minutes ago, persephone said:

We do weaning very differently here   It may not work as well for tiny puppies 
From around 3 weeks we give LARGE bones with some meat clinging on . I run a knife across the meat , so it's shredded but still on the bone. 
Puppies LOVE the taste, and start off sucking the meat, getting the juice, then their mouths wark to begin chewing It's a LOT less messy that feeding from bowls . Obviously they are still getting milk from whatever source. 
As time passes, more meat is left on the bones (LARGE, red meat bones)  and chewing becomes stronger and more co ordinated. Then they are introduced to dry puppy food , size according to pup size , so they can pick it up/chew it easily. They also get a pet mince for some meals .

A non-tip heavy bowl of water is ALWAYS available from 3 weeks . They are 'introduced' to the water by gently dipping muzzles onto the surface ...they then find it themselves.

Good point about the water. I used a rabbit ceramic bowl to begin with. Reason being so they wouldn’t accidentally fall in and fall asleep. Puppies fall asleep in the weirdest spots. And the ceramic stays in its spot. But again I’ve not had experience with small breed puppies so anything you do I’d just be a little more mindful since they are so tiny.