behaviour linked to genetics

[sandgrubber]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-04380-2?utm_source=Nature+Briefing&utm_campaign=87b8e08f4c-briefing-dy-20221209&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c9dfd39373-87b8e08f4c-45542558

 

A study that combined behavioural data from 46,000 dogs with 4,000 dogs’ DNA sequences has pinpointed genetic variants linked to nervousness and predatory behaviour, such as chasing squirrels. The researchers scrapped the conventional breed categories — which had been found to be a poor predictor for behaviour — and sorted dogs into ten genetic lineages.

[asal]

too funny, so behaviour "is linked to genes" but not to a breed?   surely the behaviour linked to a gene is passed on by the parents?  I have one, that although she has the original Debbie born in 1984 in her pedigree, (I forget how many generations back the original Debbie is). this girl born 40 years later, is both a visual clone of the original Debbie, she has all her mannerisms and personality the image of her ancestor Debbie.  I know throwbacks occur pretty regularly when breeding. Happens in people Too.  I would have thought the incidence of the desired behaviours would be greater when using parents of the same breed selected for the same desired behaviour? 

 

Interesting about the herding instinct might leas to a known marker

Edited December 12, 2022 by asal

[sandgrubber]

On 12/12/2022 at 5:43 PM, asal said:

too funny, so behaviour "is linked to genes" but not to a breed?   surely the behaviour linked to a gene is passed on by the parents?  I have one, that although she has the original Debbie born in 1984 in her pedigree, (I forget how many generations back the original Debbie is). this girl born 40 years later, is both a visual clone of the original Debbie, she has all her mannerisms and personality the image of her ancestor Debbie.  I know throwbacks occur pretty regularly when breeding. Happens in people Too.  I would have thought the incidence of the desired behaviours would be greater when using parents of the same breed selected for the same desired behaviour? 

 

Interesting about the herding instinct might leas to a known marker

A similar, recent study found breed wasn't a great predictor of behaviour.  

[asal]

10 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

A similar, recent study found breed wasn't a great predictor of behaviour.  

 

 

what kind of  "behaviour" did they "study" perhaps I should have asked?

 

our family has had Australian Cattledog's, Border Collie's, Poodles, Chihuahua's, Kelpie's and Cavalier King Charles.

 

None of my Cavaliers showed the slightest interest in bringing in the goats or cattle. Neither did the Poodles or Chihuahuas?

 

Fetching things was much loved by the Cattledog's, kelpie, border collie and Poodle's. Although Tammie, mums standard poodle scooping up and bringing back Pretzel the chihuahua puppy in her mouth with only her tail showing was the only time any had shown any interest in fetching something live.  Lucky for Pretzel she was certainly wet but totally unharmed.  but then a gun dog is bred to bring back the game undamaged, thank goodness.. Interestingly Tammie  very much loved jumping in the pool and swimming with us, but since they were bred as a water retriever we rather expected that. But the day we found my friends son crying at the back door, his arm firmly held by tammy after he had nicked outside without our knowledge. not just once but three times. showed us something we never expected.  when he got out a 4th time we were watching him, he headed straight to the pool and tammy grabbed his arm and pulled him back to the back door.

 

how on earth did such a water loving dog know at only 2 he should not get in the water?

 

would any of the other dogs if they had been there that day know not to let Tony get in the pool?

 

Cattledogs were bred not just to herd but protect their owner and their belongings, be it swag, horse, car, child, house.

 

our Kelpie was the ultimate workaholic if there wasn't stock to work then like the border collie happy to "work" any bird that few in or past the place. they would bark when strangers came but none of the "what's the password" attitude of the cattle dogs.

 

As for the Chihuahua's, definitely, consummate lap warmers think they were best summed up with "what's in it for me?" if you wanted to teach obedience and fetch .

 

Poodles were bred to retrieve but I discovered they sure were protective our their human.

 

Cavaliers I read were "originally bred to warm laps in drafty castles and on chilly carriage rides. A prescription written in Olde English for the Queen of England directs her to keep this "comforte dog" on her lap to treat a cold. " Mine certainly believed that was their duty.

 

Have had many of these breeds and I found them all different personality wise certainly,  but the overall instincts pretty similar as far as their interests and general behaviour went

Edited December 16, 2022 by asal

[persephone]

1 hour ago, asal said:

Cattledogs were bred not just to herd but protect their owner and their belongings, be it swag, horse, car, child, house.

Yep My mum's was my nanny dog - and NO ONE(except Mum)  could pick me up out of my pram apparently .He was my playmate , and snake killer - he saved me on a couple of occasions apparently. 

[sandgrubber]

9 hours ago, persephone said:

Yep My mum's was my nanny dog - and NO ONE(except Mum)  could pick me up out of my pram apparently .He was my playmate , and snake killer - he saved me on a couple of occasions apparently. 

I didn't write the article.   I, and 18,000+ others contributed to its database.  They asked a huge assortment of questions.   Here's a link describing the article

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/a-dogs-breed-cant-predict-most-of-its-behavior-new-study-shows-180979999/

 

The questions asked may not get to the details.   For example, in my experience in boarding kennels, I found that many Labs/goldies aren't particularly enthusiastic about retrieving balls, whilst many kelpies are.  Questions about retrieving may lead to the conclusion that retrievers aren't especially inclined to retrieve.   However, I think it would be far easier to train a Lab, as compared to a kelpie, to retrieve shot game without damaging it.

Edited December 16, 2022 by sandgrubber
clarity

[asal]

6 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

I didn't write the article.   I, and 18,000+ others contributed to its database.  They asked a huge assortment of questions.   Here's a link describing the article

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/a-dogs-breed-cant-predict-most-of-its-behavior-new-study-shows-180979999/

 

The questions asked may not get to the details.   For example, in my experience in boarding kennels, I found that many Labs/goldies aren't particularly enthusiastic about retrieving balls, whilst many kelpies are.  Questions about retrieving may lead to the conclusion that retrievers aren't especially inclined to retrieve.   However, I think it would be far easier to train a Lab, as compared to a kelpie, to retrieve shot game without damaging it.

 

 

O you so cracked me up, send a Kelpie to "retrieve game'? if would be eaten in a flash.

 

Never forget the day I took a kelpie we had taken to rehome after his owner had died. made the mistake of taking him down when I checked the cattle without a lead. he had been solely a house pet, so had never worked stock. big mistake on my part.

  He took one look at the cattle and was gone in a flash, determined to round them up. the cows had just calved and to my amazement I got to see the oft repeated stories how wild cattle  "form a ring with the calves in the centre to fend off wolves."  my come at a call cattle did the same as Columbus tried desperately to drive them to me. He completely ignored my calls to him to come back.

 

Lennie our bull increasingly tried to charge and kill him until finally Columbus decided retreat was needed, THEN AND ONLY then did he come running full tilt back to me with one tone of furious bull on his tail!

 

I ran for my life to the nearest biggest tree, stood with my back to the tree and tried to glue myself to it, just as half wit kelpie arrived and sat at my feet grinning at me?   seconds later Lennie arrived and Columbus realised I wasn't going to do a thing to save him and spun, high tailing it for the house.

Lennie arrived at the tree a split second before the dog ran for it.  Was astonished to see me there glued to the tree.  It was as if he was asking me.  "are you responsible for THAT THING?"  He blew the biggest snort at me as if disgusted I might be involved in scaring his cows and calves so much then took off after the bloody kelpie, much to my relief.

 

We never muster our cattle with dogs, they have been attacked by so many suburban dogs left to roam by their owners they will attack any dog on sight, (used to lease the Kingswood raaf base for over ten years.)  uncontrolled cats are not the only problem in suburbia.

 

Just had to either call them to the stockyard or muster with the horses. 

 

The most effective calf killers were a beagle (who tracked them) and the two great danes with him who then tore them to pieces. The raaf patrols saw them at work a few times before we learned who owned them and warned them, keep them home or their dogs will be shot on sight.

 

Interestingly neither of the Great Danes were any strokes as guard dogs, or the Basset when we visited their owners. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by asal

[asal]

Forgot I also had two Doberman's for some years, sisters. A breed often used for security work.  different as chalk and cheese in their behaviour to strange people, but still did the job they breed was created to do. 

 

One would hide when someone came to the house and then once they entered go for them and try to bite them from behind on the legs. Although she never actually made contact she sure chased them off the place. Compared to her sister she was a very nervous type and afraid of people she did not know, but would still drive away strangers. If we were either inside the house when people arrived or not at home.  She never barked to warn us someone was at the gate like her sister would.

The other girl was very confidant and social with visitors when we were home and would do the cattle dog charge and bark the "do not enter" at them at the gate if we were inside to warn us stranger danger then wait for us to tell her it was ok for them to come in.  Or keep barking at them if we were not at home .

 

the hide girl had a litter and a friends child sneaked off when no one was looking to see the new born puppies. heard him scream and begin crying to find him outside the door of the room she was in.  Brat had opened the door and gone in.  Clearly, on his forehead was the imprint of her closed teeth?  she must have charged him and hit him with her mouth closed to push him away from her pups and out the door?

 

horrified to think of the damage she could have inflicted if she had opened her teeth to him.

 

so a breed bred for guard work and never actually did damage to anyone other than scare the daylights out of someone where they should not be.

 

cant say the same for the headliner breeds and their crosses. so I really do doubt the accuracy of that  survey as to the common dominators of behaviours in known breeds?.

Edited December 16, 2022 by asal