Ph level 9

[Zarasowner]

Hi all. I got Zara a urinalysis test done yesterday. Rang the vet and was advised her ph level is high and there is crystals. They asked how long i kept the sample for which was for half an hour. Why did I get it done? it's because she kept urinating a lot. This has been going on for a few weeks now. When I have repeatedly gone to the vet,each one has given me a different answer. One says,she's urine making/marking (unsure the term) one says it's excitement. We did do a test then but apparently there was no clinical findings. 

 

She drinks plenty of water when it's hot,she loves to release on our walks. I feed one can of black hawk can food in the morning and kibble at night. I don't understand how this is happening. I have to start feeding her Urinary S/O.

 

Is it possible because I got the sample an hour or two after breakfast? would a urniary supplement help? 

[Boronia]

the vets usually put them on antibiotics for a UTI and Urimav (it's cheap as chips on-line)to increase the acid content of the urine which slows down the struvite crystal formation.

There is no red meat or fish in the diet ever again, just chicken or turkey and Urinary S/O

I also have a Zara who has this problem, for chicken I feed her Premi Yum from Woolies (sometimes on special for $9) and get the Urinary S/O online

[Zarasowner]

Thanks for the reply. I rang the vet back up and asked if she has an infection or if she needs antibiotics and they said no. 

 

I'll have to check those products out. Tomorrow I'll go in and see what is going on because this situation is such a headache. I feel like I'm going in circles with what is going on with her. 

 

 

[Deeds]

What breed is your dog?  Could it be inherent in the breed.

[~Anne~]

Crystals don’t necessarily mean infection although they often accompany each other.
 

Your dog is at risk of developing stones if those crystals clump together. You need to always ensure her bladder and kidneys are being flushed through and she’s always well hydrated. You also need to keep her ph levels at an acceptable level. If the ph is too high or too low, crystals form and infections can take hold. 

 

She must be encouraged to drink to keep flushing - which also means she must have easy access to going to the toilet. The longer she holds, the more chance of crystals and infections. 

I mentioned before I think about our final rescue, Olivia. She had two operations within 12 months to remove large stones, before coming in to rescue. The last stone was the size of a small mandarin. Her previous owners did not control the situation and she was an infected mess and lost the use of a kidney through the ordeal as well. They had taken her to the vet to be euthanised when we got the call to take her in. 
 

She was put on a very long course of antibiotics after we had a sample taken from her bladder while under anaesthetic to identify the exact bacteria. We also immediately put her on c/d prescriptive kibble. This was soaked in water before feeding her to increase her fluid intake. She was also given a warm broth (winter) a cool broth (summer) every day made from water mixed with any meat or vegetable juices I had from cooking, and yoghurt mixed with water when I didn’t have this.
 

Olivia never, ever had an infection again. She never, ever developed crystals again. She had a weak bladder from the previous damage and, as I said above, only 1 functioning kidney but she was free of issues for her last 8-9 years of her life. 
 

One way of testing for crystals is to have her wee on newspaper and let it dry in the sun. You’ll see the crystals glinting if there are any. 

 

You can do other things, but the most effective is her food being specific to her condition. Research if you don’t want to feed prescription kibble - it is expensive and it’s not palatable for a lot of dogs. You can make a similar formula by adding salt, and ingredients to keep her ph at a better level, to her food. Olivia was a pug which meant she was a guts that would happily devour any food. I had it easy. A fussy eater will make it much harder. 

[tdierikx]

Urinalysis dipstick tests can return less than reliable results if performed more than 30 minutes after a sample is taken - age and temperature of the sample plays a role in effectiveness of the test. You say that you got the sample to the clinic within 30 mins, but then how long before they got around to actually doing the test?

 

The time the test is taken can have effect on pH... the closer to the time the dog was fed, the higher the pH level... but a couple of hours after eating shouldn't see a massive increase.  How the sample was collected and what type of container it is in can also affect the result...

 

A high pH could also indicate possible bacterial activity in the sample - whether or not this is via the internal processes of the dog, or exposure to contaminants during or after the sample is collected could be a factor there too.

 

Is it at all possible to maybe do the collection and immediate test actually at the clinic? That would remove most external factors and maybe give a clearer result from which to then base a clearer diagnosis on. I'd probably opt for a blood test as well to check kidney function before I'd be advising massive dietary changes that may or may not actually be necessary.

 

T.

[Zarasowner]

10 hours ago, Deeds said:

What breed is your dog?  Could it be inherent in the breed.

 

She's a staffy x Chihuahua 

[Zarasowner]

Thank you all for your inputs as usual much appreciated. 

 

Zara has been urinating a lot on the hot day. I thought it was an infection again but the vet advised me it was because she was drinking a lot due the heat. It's normal,etc. She's marking, she's excited (because we have pigeons and bin chickens that come in the yard). That's why she's urinating a lot still. 

 

I take her for walks daily; between 40-60 minutes. I let her do her business,I don't stop her. She gulps down the water after eating kibble and again in the hot weather. 

 

I did get her latest urinalysis test via free catch two hours later after having breakfast. I don't think she drank water that day. 

 

So,I really don't know what is going on. How it's possible if she's urinating frequently and drinking water. 

 

 

 

 

[Deeds]

How old is your dog and is she on any medication that would make her drink more water than usual i.e. Prednisone.

 

It sounds like normal water drinking to me especially in the hot weather and after eating kibble or treats.  And some dogs drink more water than others.

[Zarasowner]

She will be two in two days! She had a UTI months ago and nothing since then.

 

I forgot to add; I asked if they could send off her urine to the lab (when I dropped it off on Wednesday) unsure how long they kept it in the fridge. 

 

They want me to start her on Royal Canin urniary for two weeks then we go back for another urinalysis. When I asked them this morning what type of crystals it was,they said it's not known. We just got back from our walk,she urinated a few times. Which I'm not worried about because she marks her territory, especially tries to on one of her dog friends. So,I don't know how she got crystals if she drinks well & urinates good. 

[Mairead]

I agree with tdierikx, wait for a diagnosis.

As for crystals 'not known' that makes me wonder just who is doing the testing and why mention it if they don't know what sort? As a lab technician I'm offended. From my (human) biochemistry book by Kaplan and Pesce: "In general, the formation of crystals should be regarded as an artifact of the system of collection. Usually crystals are not present when urine is freshly voided... When heated to 37° C most crystals disappear."

Crystals can be from different chemicals and have different (diagnostic) shapes. One sort( not in dogs) looks like a coffin lid.

Re drinking: I remember on the Million Paws walks most dogs went for any water bowl available while my sighthound didn't drink at all.

[Deeds]

There are different types of crystals and some types can be caused by UTI's.

[Mairead]

Sounds like the vet is trying to sell you expensive food that you may not need. Taking advantage of your concern or worry.

[~Anne~]

How many times a day does your dog urinate (not including when she is on a walk)? 
 

Is she wetting inside? 

 

Why do you not trust what your vet says? 

[Zarasowner]

1 hour ago, ~Anne~ said:

How many times a day does your dog urinate (not including when she is on a walk)? 
 

Is she wetting inside? 

 

Why do you not trust what your vet says? 

 

I think today it's been two or three times. Still unsure if she's marking or what not because on our walks; she lifts her leg and sometimes squats. At home she's squatting. Unsure if it's because she drank water. Could it be she has a tiny bladder?

 

No,she doesn't urinate inside. The only time it happens is when it rains and when she had a UTI months ago,she urinated on my bed.

 

It's not that don't I trust them; it's the fact that the rotation of vets keep telling me something different. I just want to get to the bottom of this. I don't understand what is going on. 

 

I have asked an online vet. Yes,a vet in real life is better but I'm desperate for more opinions. She said the crystals could have been because they may not have checked the urine straight away and that no one knows how long it took to get to the lab. 

 

She told me to back and do a fresh in house sample and see if there is crystals.

 

Zara just urinated once again. There are pigeons around. Unsure if it's because of them. 

[Mairead]

Doesn't sound to me like they sent any sample to a lab. If they did you can ask for a copy of the report. No proper lab would mention crystals and then not identify them. Sounds more like an in house job with someone not used to looking down a microscope.

If she had a UTI again the inappropriate urination (on your bed) and not being able to hold on to her urine overnight or for long would be signs.

What container did you use to collect her sample? 

[Zarasowner]

10 minutes ago, Mairead said:

Doesn't sound to me like they sent any sample to a lab. If they did you can ask for a copy of the report. No proper lab would mention crystals and then not identify them. Sounds more like an in house job with someone not used to looking down a microscope.

If she had a UTI again the inappropriate urination (on your bed) and not being able to hold on to her urine overnight or for long would be signs.

What container did you use to collect her sample? 

 

Honestly,I'm starting to think that. 

 

They are giving me hell. I have been going there since I got Zara at 11 months. I discovered them through the desexing network and they have been my vet since then. They are good to us. 

 

 

 

Yup. If she does inappropriate urination I would definitely know that something is up.  She's out in the front yard again,did another urination and then scratched the floor. 

 

 

 

I went to the chemist and got a Urine container. Seriously considering making an appointment and letting them do a test on the spot next Monday. 

 

[Boronia]

Your vet should get the nurse to take your dog outside and whip that kidney dish under her as soon as she squats, they then put some of the sample in a tiny test tube like this one here

after it  has been spun down it is quite easy to see any crystals with the naked eye, they look a little like fine sand

I feel as though you have been mucked about as, along with testing the pH, it's a common test and every vet surgery carries a centrifuge so can do that test while you are waiting in the consulting room

 

[~Anne~]

I’m not sure what time it is where you are and when you wrote your post, but if she is only urinating 2-3 times a day (excluding walks) I wouldn’t think that is unusual. 
 

If they’re only testing ph and crystals, they don’t need to send the urine any where. 
 

Are you sure you’re not be over reactive/protective? I understand you’re wary given her history and perhaps they’re recommending the kibble as a preventative given it seems she may be a candidate for ongoing problems due to the high ph.

 

The end point I make again is that you can control the situation if she is prone to issues, by altering her diet and encouraging her to drink. She doesn’t sound like she has an issue at the moment in my opinion. 
 

Feeding her a diet which keeps her ph at a healthy level and makes her drink can only be good. You can buy urine specific kibbles online. I know some Vets may push foods and products they sell but vets are trained professionals and they are the people you should listen to - not strangers on the internet. We can only offer our opinions and experiences - not detailed medical knowledge. 

 

 

 

[Mairead]

I would ask for a copy of the urine report before paying for another appointment. 

Well done for using the sterile container. Some humans can't manage to collect their own urine correctly. Did you wait until she was at full pee, to collect a mid-stream sample? That minimizes contamination.