Deleted

[Loving my Oldies]

2 hours ago, coneye said:

 and just like occasionaly  in the human race we get some who are to put it bluntly   dangerous nutcases ,   who just need a trigger to set them off ,, we get it in dogs as well 

I believe this.  I think  occasionally can be applied to dogs, though, because there are plenty of people who are dangerous nutcases.  

[tdierikx]

@coneye,  you are entitled to your opinion, but it's not the only one that should be taken into consideration in this case, so it would be appreciated if you could desist in flooding the thread insisting that you are the only one who knows how to deal with said situation.

 

@belinda74- there very well may only be one eventual outcome required for your pup and her issues, but I'm sure you will be much more sure of that outcome being the right one if you know that you have at least investigated any possible physical problem causing it, yes?

 

I guarantee you that the RSPCA will most likely refuse to take on your pup, but if they do, full disclosure of her biting your child without provocation will see them putting that needle into her even before you have left the carpark after dropping her off there... and that's a cold hard fact.

 

At 5 months of age, she will be teething, and as a result will be much more mouthy than normal... but she could also have other issues relating to her teething that could be contributing to her aggression - her mouth may be sore, she may have sore ears, etc - she is also likely to be still having growth spurts that may be making her joints sore at regular intervals... and pain in an animal that can't articulate what's upsetting them can manifest in displays of aggression with seemingly no cause. A thorough vet check will at least rule those basic health/pain issues in or out.

 

@Deedshas given very sound advice regarding contacting K9 Pro if your pup doesn't appear to have any actual physical problem causing her behaviour - the trainers there are VERY experienced in rectifying such behaviours, and may be even more effective in rectifying hers as she's so young and still in full learning mode with regards to dealing with the world around her. It would be worth at least giving them a call and having a talk about what is happening with your pup.

 

Personally, I worked for some good many years in special needs dog rescue, where we took in dogs with all manner of issues that required rehbilitation before they could be rehomed - and a decent number of those cases were behaviour related. I have personally had to make the hard decisions for dogs with behaviours that simply made them too dangerous to safely rehome. I can feel your anguish at possibly having to make such a decision for your young pup... but if it becomes the logical choice for her, I fully support that choice, OK?

 

T.

[coneye]

10 hours ago, tdierikx said:

@coneye, excuse my French, but you are a dick... you are entitled to your opinion, but it's not the only one that should be taken into consideration in this case, so it would be appreciated if you could desist in flooding the thread insisting that you are the only one who knows how to deal with said situation.

 

@belinda74- there very well may only be one eventual outcome required for your pup and her issues, but I'm sure you will be much more sure of that outcome being the right one if you know that you have at least investigated any possible physical problem causing it, yes?

 

I guarantee you that the RSPCA will most likely refuse to take on your pup, but if they do, full disclosure of her biting your child without provocation will see them putting that needle into her even before you have left the carpark after dropping her off there... and that's a cold hard fact.

 

At 5 months of age, she will be teething, and as a result will be much more mouthy than normal... but she could also have other issues relating to her teething that could be contributing to her aggression - her mouth may be sore, she may have sore ears, etc - she is also likely to be still having growth spurts that may be making her joints sore at regular intervals... and pain in an animal that can't articulate what's upsetting them can manifest in displays of aggression with seemingly no cause. A thorough vet check will at least rule those basic health/pain issues in or out.

 

@Deedshas given very sound advice regarding contacting K9 Pro if your pup doesn't appear to have any actual physical problem causing her behaviour - the trainers there are VERY experienced in rectifying such behaviours, and may be even more effective in rectifying hers as she's so young and still in full learning mode with regards to dealing with the world around her. It would be worth at least giving them a call and having a talk about what is happening with your pup.

 

Personally, I worked for some good many years in special needs dog rescue, where we took in dogs with all manner of issues that required rehbilitation before they could be rehomed - and a decent number of those cases were behaviour related. I have personally had to make the hard decisions for dogs with behaviours that simply made them too dangerous to safely rehome. I can feel your anguish at possibly having to make such a decision for your young pup... but if it becomes the logical choice for her, I fully support that choice, OK?

 

T.

Give the lady the advice she needs , the dog is a melon the dog is a mental case ,  the dog is a skitso , call it what you want  but give her the advice she needs , GET RID ,,

wHO CARES IF THE DOG HAS PHYSICAL ISSUES , THERES A BIGGER ISSUE HERE AND THATS THE SAFETY OF A child , YES A PROPER HUMAN CHILD  ... THE LADY NEEDS SENSIBLE ADVICE  .

 

Tell you or rather ask you all something , this is especielly for you TDIERIKZ ,,, i HAVE SAID A DOZEN TIMES GET RID BUT NOT NECCESARY  PUT HER DOWN , GIVE HER TO AN ADULT WHO CAN CONTROL AND WORK WITH DOGS ,, , now since you seem to think that this dogs issues could be  sore ears , teething ,  upset tummy ,,  thinks the childs going to take her teddy ,,  and your such an expert who believes in a 100 chances because you worked with speciel needs dogs , YOU TAKE HER  ,, you put her with your kids or grandkids , YOU take the risk of her mauling a child       you be the one who the police come to see if it ever does it   

, bet you don't , but you will call me a dick for trying to convey in the strongest possible way not to listen to idiot animal lovers who can see a dog doing no wrong  but to acknoledge she has in her house a potential killer ...

 

How do i know , easy , we had a weirdo animal lover with a house full of  cats and stray dogs ,, who     always made excuses    for her dogs being uncontrolable  , in the days when people would just let them out to roam , yeh she was making excuses  for her reactive nutcase GSD  that bit  lots of people , she made excuses even after the police took it away and destroyed it , AFTER it ripped my brothers arm to shreds , tore all the muscle of the bone done irriparable damage , and sentenced him to a life with  a arm that will not work .

 

YOU TAKE THE DOG , who knows    you may even make excuses    idf it mauls you ..

 

Belinda the dogs a dud just get rid of it  be be sure to be safe

[JulesP]

Hey Belinda, I hope you are still reading this. You said the puppy is very small? This is making me question whether there is something going on with its liver. ie a liver shunt. Liver shunts cause a build up of toxins in the brain and aggressive behaviour is certainly a symptom. Look up Hepatic encephalopathy and see if any of the other symptoms sound familiar. A blood test and a bile test can rule with out. There could also be other physical things like Hypoglycemia, distemper, thyroid conditions and also a syndrome called rage syndrome. 

 

If this is behavioural without seeing the puppy in action it is hard to tell you what is going on. Hence my suggestion to call K9Pro. I taught puppy school for 5+ years and you really need to see what is happening before giving advice. 

 

Please keep the puppy totally away from your kids and other pets until this is resolved. Even a small pup could catch an artery in a small child. 

[Teebs]

K9 pro is actually a great suggestion. I would send them a message and see what they say. 

 

@belinda74the RSPCA will not take this pup on to rehome, if they accept the pup it will be destroyed. They kill so many dogs a year, they won't try to save one who has a bite history and is a bull breed. 

 

@coneye  Yes. The end result may be this dog being put down. But carrying on like above won't help at all, after the first few lines I've just scrolled past every one of your posts.

 

I agree something has to be done, but name calling and going on the way you are is doing absolutely nothing to help. 

 

 

[Deeds]

It's a shame that we will probably never find out what was wrong with the pup.

 

The absolute majority of replies in this thread just wanted to help Belinda because they realised how dire her situation was.

 

The name calling didn't help and definitely lowered the tone for the rest of us who did give constructive advice.

 

I hope Belinda does try to get an assessment done for the pup because despite everything she is fond of the pup.  The assessment whether it is medical or  K9 Pro may help her in making decisions about the pup's future.

[Deeds]

Please note re the above post the name calling referred to related to only one poster and not any of the regular good natured DOLERS who are more than happy to share their experiences and advice with people asking for help.

[coneye]

Well I agree , with posters name calling is not good for anything , for that Belinda i ONCE AGAIN  i apolagise for  any name calling  ,  it was really born out of frustration , ,    which was caused by the fact  you have asked for help about this dog  for quite a while now , from being  unable to house train the dog through to  attacking children ,,, its a subject i am passionate about  , see above , i've witnessed it first hand  on two occasions , one was my own brother when we were kids   he was left a cripple , and another with a workmate , both mauled by savage dogs ,,  My strong messages to you  were  because   the signs are there . 

 

I still feel though that although  everyone is entitled to there opinion ,, being told    to try and find out reasons why its doing it  is the wrong advice ,,  who cares if the dog has a stomach ache , or it  gets startled easy   or a thryroid issue ,,  facts are its a dangerous dog ,  and the RSPCA agree with me , they will not take it .

 

But  you did ask for advice , you have now recieved lots of it good or bad  , its up to you now   its obvious you are attached to the dog , but its time to make a choice ,  and its your choice ,  perhaps maybee one of the other posters who i have upset will  put there money where there mouth is and take it off your hands ,, because after all  i did apolagise to you for calling you names , a few posts ago ,  so besides calling you a name which like i said i should'nt of done , there passionate rants both to me and against me , i would summize came from the fact   i was giving bad advice which all along has been  GET RID ,  .

 

I'm sure if its only attacking children because its  mouthy or having growth spurts   or just got belly ache  that one of these other extremly experienced people would be able to control and fix the problem , because according to them GET RID is bad advice . ,

. Good luck  with it i'm sure you will do whats best for the child not the dog , and once again i apolagise for the name calling ,, but heh ,  its brought it to   fruition now has'nt it

[tdierikx]

@coneye, I assume you have read (at least partially)  my responses to the OP, and will actually find that I concurred with @Powerlegsthat if the pup's issues are untreatable, that she may need to be put down. Unfortunately in this particular social climate, rehoming a 5 month old pup with issues of this nature will be difficult at best - and even moreso with no health screening to ascertain that those issues do not stem from some possibly treatable health issue.

 

I am currently petless and do not have children or have children visiting my place, and theoretically could take on the pup in question, but I'm not in a financial position to track down any possible physical issue, nor pay for behaviourist sessions/training to rectify those sort of issues. I am also getting a new puppy myself in the near future, and would prefer to have the time and resources in hand to raise him properly - not manage a possible "problem child" and raise a new puppy at the same time. I also refuse to have to be the one responsible for having to euthanaise this pup if her issues are untreatable for the long term.

 

My last TWO dogs had some undesirable issues that made them less than perfect canine citizens - and I have spent numerous YEARS coping with those, so I actually DO know what the hell I'm talking about in that respect. Both I got as pups (actually rescue fosters) and both lived to 10 and 11 years of age. Quite frankly, I'm tired of having to cope with a dog with issues, and am looking forward to my new pup from a wonderful breeder of dogs with great temperaments and great healthy lines.

 

I fully agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion on this matter, but that doesn't automagically mean that YOUR opinion and "advice" is the only one that should be heard. This pup deserves at the very least to have the cause of her problems identified before being palmed off to someone else to deal with. The OP has been given some very sound advice by numerous knowledgeable people here on how to manage the situation at least in the short term while they find out if there might be a treatable physical issue with this pup that could very well sort out the problem... and if that isn't the case, then advice on talking to people even more knowledgeable about rectifying behavioural issues may be helpful. If in the end, nothing can be initiated to resolve the pup's issues, then the OP might need to suck it all up and have the pup put to sleep. There will be no adverse judgement from the people who have participated in this thread if that is the end result.

 

I apologise to my fellow regular DOLers here for losing my rag and calling you a dick @coneye... but seriously mate, you really need to tone it down some when you choose to dole out "advice" when you (and the rest of us) only have fairly limited information about the problem at hand.

 

T.

[coneye]

1 hour ago, tdierikx said:

@coneye, I assume you have read (at least partially)  my responses to the OP, and will actually find that I concurred with @Powerlegsthat if the pup's issues are untreatable, that she may need to be put down. Unfortunately in this particular social climate, rehoming a 5 month old pup with issues of this nature will be difficult at best - and even moreso with no health screening to ascertain that those issues do not stem from some possibly treatable health issue.

 

I am currently petless and do not have children or have children visiting my place, and theoretically could take on the pup in question, but I'm not in a financial position to track down any possible physical issue, nor pay for behaviourist sessions/training to rectify those sort of issues. I am also getting a new puppy myself in the near future, and would prefer to have the time and resources in hand to raise him properly - not manage a possible "problem child" and raise a new puppy at the same time. I also refuse to have to be the one responsible for having to euthanaise this pup if her issues are untreatable for the long term.

 

My last TWO dogs had some undesirable issues that made them less than perfect canine citizens - and I have spent numerous YEARS coping with those, so I actually DO know what the hell I'm talking about in that respect. Both I got as pups (actually rescue fosters) and both lived to 10 and 11 years of age. Quite frankly, I'm tired of having to cope with a dog with issues, and am looking forward to my new pup from a wonderful breeder of dogs with great temperaments and great healthy lines.

 

I fully agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion on this matter, but that doesn't automagically mean that YOUR opinion and "advice" is the only one that should be heard. This pup deserves at the very least to have the cause of her problems identified before being palmed off to someone else to deal with. The OP has been given some very sound advice by numerous knowledgeable people here on how to manage the situation at least in the short term while they find out if there might be a treatable physical issue with this pup that could very well sort out the problem... and if that isn't the case, then advice on talking to people even more knowledgeable about rectifying behavioural issues may be helpful. If in the end, nothing can be initiated to resolve the pup's issues, then the OP might need to suck it all up and have the pup put to sleep. There will be no adverse judgement from the people who have participated in this thread if that is the end result.

 

I apologise to my fellow regular DOLers here for losing my rag and calling you a dick @coneye... but seriously mate, you really need to tone it down some when you choose to dole out "advice" when you (and the rest of us) only have fairly limited information about the problem at hand

So  , which part of my advice has been bad ,, the only advice i have given  is get rid ,,,  forget the name calling i done calling the lady an Idiot , i have already apolagised for that numerous times ,, but  you seem to concentrate on my advice you deem bad  , whats bad about it ,,  I think we all agree whats going to happen , sooner preferably than later  the dog will be away from the child ,,, but where my focus is get rid , yours is GET HELP ,, what for , its going to cost  the lady dollars , you yourself  said that ,  and what will happen , its still not going to  be a  dog you can trust with a child . The l;ady has said its fine 99.9 % of the time freindly and just a normal pup ,  with NO ISSUES , it comes out of no where ,, i said  it will probably be fine with a vet ,  or any one else that looks at it  , BUT what about that  00.01%  when its not , this dog cannott and should not be rehomed with any familly ,    so she is just adding financial hardship  to herself to go along with   the emotional task of getting rid ,, and WHY  its a done deal already ,  .

 

However i did say she does not neccesarily have to put it down it could be given away , but only to an adult only home with the person being told the full story ,, told you on here before i took a 10 month  rotty and he was a big boy , the owner could'nt control him , he had bit numerous people and  he was savage ,,    difference was though he was'nt good and bad out of no where , he seen dog cat person and wanted to rip them atpart , yet i took him and within 3 months he behaved within 10-12 months he was under total control ,, BUT NEVER EVER to be trutsed ,  he had an issue the vet told me , in plain words he was just mean , but controlable  ,, this one i don;t know  because it does it  rarely  and is good the rest of the time , maybee someone such has yourself with the recources could do something with her , but theres always that 00.01%  which could be triggered in 1 maybee 2 or even 3 years .

 

That is why  i'm saying GET RID  , don't even bother wasting time and money  trying to find the cause , because its always going to be dangerous , wether they say it attacks because its got a problem physical or mental  or wether they say nothing wrong with it does'nt matter does it  . of course if thats the way the lady goes its not going to do the dog one bit of good , it will only be spent to ease her conscence so she can tell everyone she done what she can  waste of money  ONLY chance this dog has  and so it should be is   if an adult with no kids   few visitors   and the ability to train dogs , wants it has a companion  and takes it ,,,  and theres no need to spend thousands . . Your biggest issue seems to be because you have fostered dogs and obviously a dog lover that  this dog should be given every chance  see vets , behavourlists , and chiropractors , ect , and not just got rid of one way or the other ,, but like i said you will not take it.   would you take it if the lady spends big bucks trying to find the problem and  they can give her reasons to what sets it off ,, If you would fantastic ,, if you would'nt well i was correct ,  whats the point in her spending the money .

And thank you for your discusions its past the time , proved nothing  except that i think the lady is finally convinced it has to go , which is a good thing ,, its the last i will say on the subject  , because  the only option that has been there all along ,  is goiung to be what i said all along GET RID

[_PL_]

 

.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Powerlegs
.

[BDJ]

Original poster - I feel for you.  Crap situation that you are in, whichever way you look at it.

 

Personally, I would be very hesitant to place your pup with anyone other than a reputable/recognised rescue (or other group with a known and verifiable history of similar) or to the AWL etc.   The reason being is that unfortunately you stand a chance that it will end up in either (a) a home that also finds the behaviour a challenge/not acceptable and off loads it again or (b) a numpty who wants an 'aggressive bully breed dog' either for fighting or other harsh reality.

 

Sometimes you will find a wonderful individual who has the experience, time, $$$ and circumstances to take your pup on and (a) find out what the issue is, (b) works to resolve it, (c) be able to resolve it and (d) gives your pup a happy and long life.

 

Unfortunately, the chance is slim of that 'wonderful individual' turning up before it goes pear shaped in your household.

 

If you are able to find an answer quickly (vet etc) then that is great.  But realistically, a young dog who is 99% great but sometime has a 'brain fart' and for whatever reason switches to attack/bite mode is a huge red flag, and more often than not the outcome is not good.   

 

 

[coneye]

21 hours ago, Powerlegs said:

 

OK then  well if   get rid off it is bad advice and unhelpful ,, maybee you can tell us what she should do , what has rescuers shoes got to do with it  i've repeatadly said  rescuers and such are genuine dog lovers , i've repeatedly said the dog should'nt have a dozen chances its already had 6 ,  four attacks on a child 1 on an adult , and 1 on a cat , SO what should she do with it ,,You all seem to have an issue with the fact i keep saying go see a behavorist or vet , or whoever , whatever is a waste of time . But you yourself have just said excatly what i'm saying

 

quote ( If the dog is a hazard in one home today it's not going to change just because you remove what tomorrow's trigger is. ) unquote .

 

So why spend all that money on the dog  its never going to be suitable is it .. SO I REPEAT  what should she do  , if get rid is a bad idea , and seeing specelist will not help WHAT WILL ,,, the only thing that will safe this dog is  a rescuer , with the financial recources , training ability and full knoledge of what the dogs about ,, and these are the things i continually keep saying ,,, but the little gang of part time rescuers on here  who know better  seem to  be ganging up and   having a go at me ,, so  i'm wrong i must be , so now tell us all WHAT SHOULD SHE DO .

 

Please inform  me  i am always willing to learn . Oh and i am not and have not belittled any foster carers   , i merely pointed out some of there advice is a waste of time ,  , they responded telling me i don't know what i'm talking about called me names ,  , so i asked , if i'm so wrong why don't they take it  , prove me wrong , show us pics in 3 years of the dog playing happilly with here grandchild  Do you want it

 

 

[_PL_]

I've seriously run out of things to say to you that will sink in. I'm putting you on ignore. 

[coneye]

2 minutes ago, Powerlegs said:

I've seriously run out of things to say to you that will sink in. I'm putting you on ignore. 

Bye ,      You could though always answer my question , What should she do with the dog

[coneye]

Belinda ,, do what you think is the right thing to do ,, I truly am sorry for the discisions you have to make , you genuinly seem to care for the dog , i know that or it would never of got the chances it has , so   just follow your heart , do what you and your husband deem neccesary , and  if nothing else take note  , if you purchase one again  do your homework  ,,, GOOD LUCK

[Boronia]

@coneye I am having so much trouble reading your posts so could you do me a great favour and not put two or three commas when one would do the job (also there is no space between the end of a word and a comma)

Yes, I am a grammar Nazi but you could just do a little towards easing my affliction

Edited November 14, 2022 by Boronia

[sheena]

1 hour ago, Boronia said:

@coneye I am having so much trouble reading your posts so could you do me a great favour and not put two or three commas when one would do the job (also there is no space between the end of a word and a comma)

Yes, I am a grammar Nazi but you could just do a little towards easing my affliction

Thank goodness someone else raised that affliction.  It is so annoying that I have given up trying to read his/her comments

[tdierikx]

@coneye, so you once took on a dog with issues and it was fine with you... funnily enough, we aren't seeing you stepping up to take this pup on either, are we? Pot, kettle, black there mate...

 

There is a reality here that in the current climate of many thousands of perfectly stable dogs being homeless right now for myriad reasons, the chances of finding a rescue that will have the time, resources, or inclination to take on a dog with aggression issues are bloody slim at best. If the RSPCA take this dog as a surrender, they will not even attempt to rehabilitate or rehome it... once they have the information that it has bitten a child with no provocation, they will simply kill it at the first opportunity, most likely doing so before the OP has even left the carpark after dropping it off. Of course, if that is what the OP wants, then that is up to them...

 

Those of us with actual experience in dealing with numerous animals with issues might actually be calling on that experience when giving advice to get the dog vet checked for any physical issues that once rectified may actually resolve this problem.

 

While "get rid" may be an option for the OP, the reality is much less simple... for the reasons I have now outlined more than once. Reality tells me that if she can't simply offload the problem to someone else, then she's in the unenviable position of having to euthanaise this otherwise seemingly perfectly healthy and happy pup. For her peace of mind if that decision needs to be made, at least she will be in a better situation to deal with that outcome if she knows she made an effort to try to find a physical cause for the problem before enacting such a permanent "fix" for it. You may also find that most vets can and will refuse to euthanaise a perfectly healthy animal just because an owner asks for it... if the OP has done her due diligence with regards to investigating a cause for the issue, then she may have better luck convincing a vet that the dog's issues are irredeemable and that the kindest option is to stop any mental suffering the dog may be in.

 

T.

[Rascalmyshadow]

Wow reading this thread is shocking, one of the reasons I no longer come on here very often, Coneye your attitude is disgusting, without seeing the dog in action nobody knows exactly what is happening, I have handled a lot of ‘aggressive’ dogs over the years including ones that have bitten their owners badly enough to require medical care and almost every one  of them there was a cause and it was usually directly related to something the owner was doing or had done in the past, a few were found to have brain tumours, it is quite rare to get a genuinely aggressive dog with no cause and even rarer in a young puppy.

I hope the op gets the professional help she needs and the dog doesn’t end up handballed from home to home or in the hands of someone that wants to encourage aggression.