who buys doodles? why?

[coneye]

On 20/06/2022 at 8:32 AM, Podgus said:

 I myself don’t subscribe to the invention that the best, healthiest or more predictable dogs are only available inside of the pedigree system. From what I’ve observed over 30 plus years as a dog groomer and a bit of involvement with pedigree dogs in kennels, showing, owning and breeding, it’s no more of a lottery either way. I am without doubt that as many worthwhile dogs exist outside of the pedigree system,as exist within it. The same can be said for poor quality dogs inside and outside of the pedigree system.

Agree more so with  some breeds than others ,  i think the GSD is a prime example .  i see so many every day , i walk everyday  morning   and evening  come winter or summer regardless off sun or rain ,,  i live opposite a dog beach and its my daily excercise ,, i see so many that are nervy  , un confident and just bad examples of what used to be    a very fine confident breed ,, if i was to get one it would definetly only be from working lines    the confident  self asurance what was once  part of the breed is being bred out of it ,, A security dog trainer told me  Rottys and dobes are next he's noticing its getting harder and harder to find dogs that will do the job , so much so there company now breeds there own , which is he's job , they get most there stock from Europe he was saying , he stated  most of what they can buy in Aust are just fear biters and not acceptable ,  like i said after spending half my life  walking on the dog beach  i agree with him based on what i see ,,

[Amazetl]

I think a lot of people want the ‘teddy bear’ look dog and many don’t know about all the breeds that don’t shed as much. Also these days a lot of the oodle breeders genetic test their dogs so people feel like they are getting a good healthy dog. I know a lot of people wonder why not just get a poodle. As most would know, many people just feel that poodles look too ‘funny’ even in their natural coat, people also shy away when they know that poodles need so much grooming and so often and believe that a mixed with poodle doesn’t need that care as much, which can be true or they can need even more. Some are under the belief that they don’t need to even brush their poor oodle. 

 

I have met many oodles through puppy school and they are very cute and mostly sweet pups. But their puppy coat is so different to their adult coat. Some still keep that cute teddy bear look but some have hair that is so hard to manage. 

 

Almost all the other puppies in our puppy class are oodles. There are the more common ‘cavoodles’, ‘spoodle’ and a ‘schnoodle’. Not sure on exacts of what they call them. Some of them are so super cute as puppies, I couldn’t believe it. Then I went home and googled some adult looking ones and my the schnauzer cross poodle looked so odd to me. There are also different crosses in our class mixed with pugs and jack russell’s etc. I know someone who has one mixed with a German Shepherd!  

 

I can see the appeal of some of them especially when you see them as cute little puppies that look like actual soft toys. And so many people know someone with them and that’s their main experience of dogs. 

 

Interestingly there’s no big dog oodles in our classes. It seems a lot of breeders are mixing anything with poodles to be more able to sell them. Oh and I don’t know the last time I’ve seen an actual poodle out and about in the pet shops and classes I’ve been to with my dogs. 

 

A lot of people don’t have a problem with mixed breed dogs or prefer them. It’s what a lot of people have grown up with. A lot believe that they are healthier and have their own unique characters. Some think purebreds are unhealthy and snobbish etc.

 

Years ago when I decided to start looking for what breed I may want to get as my first time dog owner as an adult I first went to the trading post as that’s all I knew. I had no idea about Dogz online. I knew I wanted a big dog. I wasn’t a fan of the look of any of the large oodles so I never looked there. But some of the adds were of Border Collies cross Goldens. I thought they looked cute and interesting, looking sort of like a Golden but a different colour. But then because I love to research I read heaps of online forums and read about many people who had that particular cross and had bad experiences including a family who’s dog turned on one of the kids one day out of the blue. Then I started reading more about the individual breeds and learned how a Border Collie, badly bred, would not be for me. For that matter, even a well bred one. 

 

I stumbled upon breed clubs and health testing and Dogz online and then started figuring out what it was I wanted to do and that was get a puppy the proper way. Narrowed it down, talked to several breeders, got a feel for things and ended up with my well bred Lab who is the best thing in my life. Then later on my Goldens. 

 

I had no idea before all that and I’ve always been a dog person, just never part of the purebred world. I think most just don’t care or know even. A lot of peoples go to is the trading post and just browse what’s in your area. 

[~Anne~]

I'd argue on the 'a lot of oodle breeders are genetic testing their dogs'. Its probably a helluva lot more accurate to 'some' oodle breeders, or even some purebred breeders, are genetic testing.

 

[Deeds]

A lot of people buy Oodles.  I live in Inner Sydney and every other dog is a Oodle of some kind.   Cavoodle, Schnoodle, Groodle, Moodle and Boodle Puglier, Puggle etc

 

The Oodles outnumber the purebred dogs by a mile.

[Amazetl]

Yeah probably more ‘some’ than a lot but I have noticed that many of the ones I’ve come across have had parents who were genetic tested with orivet which is very quick and easy to do these days. They ask for more when they do that or what I mean is they believe they have a better litter to sell. 

 

Interestingly though I didn’t know how you can test for coat type etc with poodles and some oodle parent poodles haven’t had that and they don’t end up with the desired oodle coat and you don’t know what that puppy coat is going to be like when they are older, not for sure. Many people wouldn’t even know what to look for with all the testing they’ve supposedly done. 

 

That’s why going pure can be so much better, or one of the reasons, you know what they are generally going to be like and exactly what they should be tested for before breeding. Temperament wise too, exercise levels, health things to watch out for etc. With a mixed breed you might get individual characteristics and uniqueness but you don’t know so much. When you get a purebred you will know for instance how to take care of the adult coat and what works best, for oodles you have no idea just how much care they may need but generally it’s a lot and they all differ slightly. I would bet the breeders aren’t there to help guide you as much as getting a pure, and a google search can’t help exact either. Many groomers have to end up shaving them right down because the people haven’t known how to take care of the coat. And then they get angry that their oodle doesn’t look like a teddy bear. 

 

I can see some of the appeal but you are safer with knowing what you’re getting and having that guidance too, and knowing that the breeders mostly care very much for the breed and not just doing it to make money. 

 

Just to add, when I started researching every dog breed listed on Dogz online I was amazed at how many different characteristics you can get and how many have what I think a lot of people are looking for with an oodle - not as much shedding. There are so many other dogs that would be great but my guess is that a lot don’t even know that breed exists. Also, I think some people believe that a mixed breed will lessen the intensity of both breeds. I’ve heard many people describe some dog breeds as yappy etc so wouldn’t get that one but mix a poodle with something else and somehow it’s all good.

 

I think a lot of the oodle buyers really does just come down to them looking to see what’s available right now too and not wanting to talk at length with breeders or be on wait lists etc. For many it’s much easier to just look at the newspaper etc and see what’s there right now. 

 

I know recently someone who decided one day they wanted a puppy, hadn’t put much thought into it beforehand and then ended up buying a Border Collie straight away from a farm. The puppy is sweet but a true working dog that sits in a backyard all day. It’s so sad. But they wanted the idea of a dog and they wanted it right now. I know someone else who did the same with a Kelpie and unfortunately then rehomed him. 

[WanaHavanese]

When I got mine, there were under 200 dogs listed on gumtree of any breed, including rescues. Now there are well over 600 dogs/litters advertised. 

 

I'd imagine the oodles flooding the market now are likely not as specifically bred, just due to the demand and the prices they were selling for.

 

A while back I saw a "havapoo" havanese cross poodle, but I doubt the mother was a havanese. Her legs were so badly turned out and her mouth was awful, easily visable in the photos alone. She looked more like a shaggy dwarf basset hound. So any shaggy puppy can be called anything. I guess you wouldn't see the turned out feet with a long puppy coat. 

 

I will be interested to watch if those bred back to genetically tested stud poodles, being more poodle than anything else, will have unsuspecting owners who cant cope with poodle personalities. Mine is definitely poodley, bounces around like a bloody arab pony. She can be flighty and fussy, but is not naughty. Her prey drive is higher than I wanted in a dog, but shes been a very, very easy puppy. Maybe I can pick up a second dog cheap sooner than I thought haha. 

[moosmum]

13 hours ago, WanaHavanese said:

When I got mine, there were under 200 dogs listed on gumtree of any breed, including rescues. Now there are well over 600 dogs/litters advertised. 

 

I'd imagine the oodles flooding the market now are likely not as specifically bred, just due to the demand and the prices they were selling for.

 

A while back I saw a "havapoo" havanese cross poodle, but I doubt the mother was a havanese. Her legs were so badly turned out and her mouth was awful, easily visable in the photos alone. She looked more like a shaggy dwarf basset hound. So any shaggy puppy can be called anything. I guess you wouldn't see the turned out feet with a long puppy coat. 

 

I will be interested to watch if those bred back to genetically tested stud poodles, being more poodle than anything else, will have unsuspecting owners who cant cope with poodle personalities. Mine is definitely poodley, bounces around like a bloody arab pony. She can be flighty and fussy, but is not naughty. Her prey drive is higher than I wanted in a dog, but shes been a very, very easy puppy. Maybe I can pick up a second dog cheap sooner than I thought haha. 

 

From under 200 advertised on G.T to 3000 in N.S.W alone. Thats climbed higher than the average pre-covid. 

The market is saturated, and will take some time again with dogs bred before this point was reached, and others who will be completely unaware the marked has reached this point. They will breed on the assumption anything can be bred for quick sale and hefty profit as people are starting to rehome older dogs that were poorly considered.

Breeders I think are going to cop another back lash for the result. If so, it will be the wrong target. again. The high prices brought about by trying to restrict breeders, instead of ensuring a well informed environment able to make the responsible choice to only support breeders who are as well informed as themselves. ie; A positive feedback loop, where one informs the other, instead of what we have.

- A negative bias to all breeders and the environment that supports them, promoting declining expectations. A negative feed back loop.

 

The subject of Dogs are inextricable from their environment, and can only be extracted from that equation by elimination.

 

 

[Deeds]

I wonder how many Oodles end up in Rescue Shelters.

[WanaHavanese]

Not many oodles in rescue shelters - yet. Very, very few small dogs in general over the last 4/5 years.

 

Oodles that needed re-homing at an older age were still going for big bucks over the last couple years. Now with the flooded market, this will likely change and I would not be surprised to start to see them in the shelters in years to come. Either for behavior/training reasons or medical surrender/health reasons. As @moosmum said, it will take a while before people realize the money isnt there for them anymore. 

 

Even if my dog does have health issues in the future, she has been insured since 8 weeks old and the maths was done considering her actually reasonable purchase price. Paying $5000 for any dog was completely out of the question for that reason. 

 

Online oodle communities have been good in supporting people new to dogs. One person recently asked what the lumps were on its puppies tummy (they were nipples), just to give an example of how inexperienced some are. I have to say, I am in awe of how great some of these little dogs have turned out despite the non doggy homes they landed in. 

 

 The other side of that, is the dogs that have been fired from groomers, or become reactive around children, the allergies and incontinence, but these, so far, seem few.

 

Perhaps the purchase price was protective. Who's going to discard dog they paid so much for, and put so much time into. Some dogs are child substitutes. Most oodle owners appear to be spending money in training, vet care and day care rather than give it up. This wont be true for all, but is for many. 

 

 

 

[~Anne~]

Not many in rescues shelters - says who? 
 

In NSW impound facilities, it’s up to the impound officer to assign the dog a breed label. These are guesses based on looks. The breed knowledge of the officer giving the label is, in my experience as a former rescuer, largely very poor. 
 

Many dogs, which are small and hairy, are labelled ‘terrier x’. Another common label is ‘staffy x’, especially if there is any brindle in the coat. 
 

The dogs in impound facilities represent the intake area for that impound facility. For example, at Blacktown it was medium to large breeds, often staffies and the like. Up the Hunter, it was a lot of kelpies and similar. Head out west and you’ll get a lot of pig dogs and Bull Arab types. Out Leppington way it was terriers. 
 

In an area where there are a lot of oodles, they will definitely be represented in impound facilities. Oodle buyers and owners are no different to any other average dog owner/buyer. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by ~Anne~

[WanaHavanese]

1 hour ago, WanaHavanese said:

Not many oodles in rescue shelters - yet. Very, very few small dogs in general over the last 4/5 years.

 

 

 

I said not many, right there. Only my opinion because I had been actively searching for years. I was just trying to add my experience to the discussion. Nearly every rescue dog advertised has a photo. My intensive searches of small shelters were within WA but I looked at the big pet rescue sites for interstate small dogs daily as well. Very few small dogs over the last few years and very high demand for them. I agree, that will change with more being bred now.

 

  In WA the rescues have been full of staffy and big bull types. Having had these before, I knew they were not suited for me now. Certainly not for my home with free range house rabbits and ducks in the garden. 

 

Instagram and social media has influence, especially on the young and wealthy. Oodles to an extent were a status symbol for a while. Hence so many in the big cities and fewer in regional areas. I could have got a staffy or a roo dog for free locally even at the height of the pandemic. I do agree this will likely change in the future, and expect to see more neglected coats of oodle dogs with groomers in such high demand able to pick and choose their clients (as they should). NSW has way more people and more choice of everything. WA may as well be barren planet. 

[_PL_]

More Oodles are popping up sooner than I expected. And other dogs bred in the covid price bubble.  

Edited June 26, 2022 by Powerlegs
edited lol

[DogsAndTheMob]

I’m more perplexed as to why so many dog enthusiasts are so virulently hostile to poodle crosses. I’ve seen incredible rudeness to “oodle” owners at dog training clubs. On one memorable occasion, an instructor spotted an “oodle” in the beginners’ class across the training ground and lined up for an encounter in a manner that made me think of a reactive dog. These people don’t seen to have the same reaction to staffy crosses and mastiff crosses that are also likely to have been bred in ugly circumstances and to be unsuitable for many pet homes.

 

I think carefully about pedigrees when I get a puppy, and I wouldn’t choose a poodle-cross for several reasons, but I wouldn’t question someone’s decision to get one, any more than I’d question their choice of an inappropriate pedigree puppy.

 

Perhaps I’ve been fortunate, but the poodle crosses I’ve seen have generally been happy, good mannered, well-groomed dogs.

Edited June 26, 2022 by DogsAndTheMob

[Amazetl]

In puppy class there were several working breeds - Border Collies and Kelpies and they were in pet homes. A few of them were lunging and barking and snapping already at the other puppies and dragging their people around. (I have nothing against them but they just weren’t in suitable homes and probably poorly bred too). There were also many poodle crosses and only one of them was slightly just a couple times a bit snappy. The rest were all very well behaved and sweet. But I do worry about their coats when they get bigger. They already look difficult to manage. People see some pure breeds and all their energy and think an oodle will be easier because they are a mix. 

 

I think that’s part of the reason that oodles are so popular. People know someone with one who has had a good experience, the ‘breeders’ say good things about them, they are cute, many people have had negative experiences with neurotic poodles growing up or think they are too ‘proper’ or whatever. Some people think mixing the breeds will lessen the stronger behaviour characteristics of both dogs and make a nicer dog. And in a lot of peoples cases that has been true given that they are so popular (though I bet a well bred poodle and whatever the cross dog is would be great instead). 

 

I think a lot of people just want a cute pet dog and believe their coats will be easy. Also with poodle cross cavaliers especially, many people believe that cavaliers are unhealthy which there is a lot of media out there on that and they believe the poodle will offset that. 

 

Though I imagine many aren’t putting the thought into it - oodles are just what are readily available with no waiting lists or talking with breeders at length etc. 

 

I think they just make a good sell to a lot of people. I don’t know where it’s going to go and what’s going to happen in the bigger picture with all the vulnerable breeds and breeder laws and prices and how difficult it was to get a puppy for a while and now how there are so many out there. It seems rather unstable and makes me sad. I love dogs so much, though a lot of people probably really shouldn’t be getting one. 

 

Oh, edited to add that some people see the oodles and think where the puppies have come from have been bred for money. And then they look at the mastiff or staffy crosses and think they have been rescued. Even though both can happen. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Amazetl

[coneye]

I would rather just call a spade a spade  regards oodles ,  are they a good dog , would'nt have a clue never owned one, would'nt dispute one way or another ,  why are they bred  well theres lots of answers , cute ,,  no shedding , look good , ect ect ,,, But thats a bunch of answers to another question that should be asked ,  which would be why do people buy them , which is  a totally different question than why are they bred .

 

The answer to that question is just a simple MONEY  , people  see hear of these dogs going for 5-6 maybee 7000 dollars  , think Mmmm   10 pups   50-70,000  DOLLARS ,,, YES 50-7- THOUSAND DOLLARS ,,, are they bred by reputable breeders , the short answer is NO  why you may say its simple there not a breed there a mongrel type dog , untested genetics , bred  without pedigree , no way of t6racing full backgrounds, do these so called breeders care , not a chance , its money they care about and nothing else , why don't you see  shepoodles , or rottoodles , simple big dogs that may not sell  so there not don instead its ladoodle   look a lot cuter .

 

My wifes freinds daughter bought one , 7 grand ,, yes you read it right 7 THOUSAND DOLARS ,,, now  this girl loves her dog , but up till now its a nightmare , the thing is flighty stubborn NERVOUS  and i mean NERVOUS  , virtually untrainable  , she bought it when she lived at home ,    they paid thousands and i mean thousands , trying to train the thing start with it was kicked out of puppy class , too nervous and biting ,  put it outside and it screams yelps , cries for hrs , , bring it in its  was from day one and still is destuctive , not to mention they cannot   toilet train the thing , it poo's and wee's where it wants usually in the hallway carpet      or when its weeing itself shaking ,,, the poor girl got married around 6 months ago rented a house , first inspection  got kicked out ,  owner took one look at the mess and destuction it caused and said out and take the dog with you , they could'nt put it outside neighbors all sides called council because of the incessent barking crying and noise , the young couple have had to move back to her moms , with the dog , and she's had enough but can't bring herself to break the girls heart and insist she gets rid .

 

At one stage they rang the breeder to see if they could help  they were told , well you bought a poodle cross there highly strung what do you want me to do about it , then he said ,  it probably needs a mate i've got another you can have for 6 grand .

 

Ther not bred by breeders there bred by puppy mills and backyard breeders for a dollar  and thats why there bred

[Amazetl]

Such a sad story there. 

 

I would say that the smaller oodles get babied along with already having nervy genes as well as being more from toy dogs and more prone to separation anxiety. My biggest concern with them other than not knowing what they are going to be like behaviour or physical characteristic wise is their coat. People think that they have an easy coat because they don’t shed. But so many of them are matted underneath the cute fluff and I would imagine that could add to some behaviour issues too let alone being so painful. Non shedding does not mean non brushing or grooming. 

 

I think that most are breeding for money first and foremost. That they see there’s a market there if only you mix the poodle in with it. But there are actually some very passionate ‘breeders’ out there of oodles. They have their own ‘clubs’ and meet ups and all that stuff. The dogs can also have much of their genetics tested even to include the statistics of what the parent dog might be in regards to all kinds of diseases. Obviously it’s just a test and not tested by parentage papers and records. But there are some out there who are trying to think of the dog/puppies as well as the owners who want that dog. Of course they also enjoy the money.

 

I think it’s still risky to get an oodle and also very sad because there are so many purebreds who are vulnerable or becoming so who would just be so great in their place. There are plenty of other dogs out there who are non shedding or very low shedding who don’t require as much grooming too. 

 

The oodles are popular and it’s not going to go away. No idea what is really going to happen with the dog world in the future. 

 

Also just to add that from my research purebred papered breeders will keep a puppy when they want a new breeding dog in their lines and if that puppy doesn’t measure up health wise, physical wise and I would hope also temperament wise they don’t breed from it. I highly doubt that oodle breeders who get the one dog and have probably spent much money on it themselves decide to go back to the start if that dog has behaviour issues or doesn’t look like a good breeding dog, so they breed from it anyway. Just food for thought there. 

 

 

[_PL_]

Health issues are so established as normal there is even an oodle specific food brand.  
 

Quote

..... "to support vascular health and cardiac function"

..... "to support a healthy skin and coat with reduced scale"

 

[coneye]

Facts are simply these oodle dogs are not bred for . anything other than sale , the only thing they have to conform to is the oodle look wether its a laboodle or   cockeroodle , or whatever other concoction they come up with , there not a breed , there a mongrel a mating of two dogs that someone either thinks are going to look cute and fetch good money or theve seen someone else with one ,, If the relevant authorities are going to come down on any breeders these are the ones who  need to be took to account  , they are nothing more than backyard breeders , simple has that ,, First oone who should jump on them is the tax man ,  my son knows a fella who bragged he's earnt  over a hunfdred grand from his  4 dogs ,  apparantly he has 3 bitches and one male , and just keeps pumping puppys out .  he brags he gets 5-7 grand a pup    and from what i've been told , al three just got threw in the backyard and left ,, apparantly some one did call the RSPCA , who went around  but said   they have plenty of food and water   a shed to sleep in so there OK ... Far has i'm concerned ANYONE who breeds them is a parasite  looking for an easy dollar .

[sandgrubber]

On 13/07/2022 at 10:24 AM, coneye said:

Far has i'm concerned ANYONE who breeds them is a parasite  looking for an easy dollar .

A little quick on the draw there, mate.

1. I can think of some  bench lines that weren't bred for much other than looks, and the result is not great when it comes to health.

2. What's a breeder who doesn't breed dogs in the back yard? A kennel breeder?  Some of them are pretty big on for profit,  particularly in trendy breeds like Frenchies. (Not to say there aren't good Frenchie breeders.  Just that very high prices attract people out for $$).  And some cross breeders really are aiming for something.  

[WanaHavanese]

On 29/06/2022 at 2:41 PM, Powerlegs said:

Health issues are so established as normal there is even an oodle specific food brand.  
 

 

 

I thought these breed specific foods were a scammy marketing strategy, a smart one at that! But if they aren't I might get some breed specific food. Cheaper than home cooking with nosh like I am doing now! 

 

For me, becoming disabled as an adult, I would never write off a dog just for developing health issues later in life. Sure, its not breeding stock, but neither am I. When it comes to that we will deal with that. A companion dog is enough.

 

The fact is, if a purebred dog that met my needs was available at that time, I would have got a purebred dog. I am sure I am not alone in that. I watched the dogs overeast jump from $3500 to $5000 overnight and that was well above my budget. The oodle was cheaper and local. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by WanaHavanese
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