who buys doodles? why?

[sandgrubber]

https://cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40575-022-00120-x#ref-CR1

 

Attempt to get evidence based understanding on the rise of designer breeds.  Good lit review on the issue of 'hybrid vigor'.

[sheena]

I have asked a few people lately as to why they have chosen an oodle over a pure bred poodle or whatever the other breed happens to be & the answer is that they are available imediately .  Basically they are "I want it now" people & they can't see the importance of going on a waiting list for the pure bred, & they dont care what it cost.  They are readily available & with covid lockdowns & working from home lots more people have bought companion animals

[Deeds]

Yesterday when I was walking in the park I saw a man with a black & white pup.  It looked like a Bearded Collie or OES.   I asked him what breed it was and he said it was a Border Collie X Cavoodle.  I think he said it was called a Boodle and it was 6 mths old.  

 

That's a new one for me.  I've never seen that combination before.

[~Anne~]

5 hours ago, sheena said:

I have asked a few people lately as to why they have chosen an oodle over a pure bred poodle or whatever the other breed happens to be & the answer is that they are available imediately .  Basically they are "I want it now" people & they can't see the importance of going on a waiting list for the pure bred, & they dont care what it cost.  They are readily available & with covid lockdowns & working from home lots more people have bought companion animals

And a lot of them are very bloody cute!

 

I'm a fan of buying specific breeds for specific reasons but I think the world has moved on when it comes to what many consider to be the ultimate - the purebred dog. The average every day person just wants a dog that meets their idea of a good dog. They don't care about bloodlines or genetics - and why should they? Its pretty obvious that genetic issues are there in every breed, pure or not. 

 

We shouldn't think of the oodle as competition or the total demise of purebreds. Its just another choice for dog owners. Cat purchasers have had unfettered access to moggies forever and no-one raises an eyebrow. The moggie is not thought of as lacking value nor are they considered to be a poor choice compared to a purebred cat.

 

Purists will continue to look for pure and the specific characteristics and looks they want regardless of oodles. 

[Papillon Kisses]

Somewhat related… 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0219918&fbclid=IwAR2OrWDQtjxbbnwh32dzFL8fBIfgArSGFawrNqQ7HYtaJwBPwBmHm8fU92U

[BDJ]

On 26/05/2022 at 1:54 PM, ~Anne~ said:

And a lot of them are very bloody cute!

 

I'm a fan of buying specific breeds for specific reasons but I think the world has moved on when it comes to what many consider to be the ultimate - the purebred dog. The average every day person just wants a dog that meets their idea of a good dog. They don't care about bloodlines or genetics - and why should they? Its pretty obvious that genetic issues are there in every breed, pure or not. 

 

We shouldn't think of the oodle as competition or the total demise of purebreds. Its just another choice for dog owners. Cat purchasers have had unfettered access to moggies forever and no-one raises an eyebrow. The moggie is not thought of as lacking value nor are they considered to be a poor choice compared to a purebred cat.

 

Purists will continue to look for pure and the specific characteristics and looks they want regardless of oodles. 

Agree - Joe Public often doesn't worry or care about specific breeds.  Some do, but others don't.  And to a degree I understand that. 

 

I have only had one crossbred in my life, and he was pretty much a perfect dog.  BUT, I know I was bloody luck in the nature side of things, and had the experience to make the nurture side of it work.

 

For a lot of people, (a) waiting 12 months for a dog (b) developing a relationship with a breeder and (c) navigating the questions/unanswered questions/showiness (with its real or perceived 'elitism') is not what they want.    They have lost their dog, or decided that now is the time to get a dog - and that is what they want.

 

I know that my next dog will be a sheltie.   Decision made re breed and gender (female - I just prefer them) and I have no preference re colour or puppy/adult.   The decision will come down to temperament and availability.  

 

I am firm with what I want, but completely understand others who are not set on a breed will look at a crossbred as much as purebred - often the criteria comes down to maintenance, family friendliness, looks and availability.   

 

I honestly don't understand why the purebred world have moved to a thought process of 'should only breed when they want a pup'.   In my opinion, responsibly bred, well raised  pups who are representative of the breed (type, temperament etc) - who are bred for the 'pet market' are a credit to their breed and the breeder.  They should be accepted not chastised.   Disclaimer - at this point I am talking about pet/family friendly breeds and lines.  Additional disclaimer - I am not endorsing unethical breeding practices.

[tdierikx]

44 minutes ago, BDJ said:

I honestly don't understand why the purebred world have moved to a thought process of 'should only breed when they want a pup'.   In my opinion, responsibly bred, well raised  pups who are representative of the breed (type, temperament etc) - who are bred for the 'pet market' are a credit to their breed and the breeder.  They should be accepted not chastised.   Disclaimer - at this point I am talking about pet/family friendly breeds and lines.  Additional disclaimer - I am not endorsing unethical breeding practices.

 

 This! Yes!

 

We all know that the best marketing for any "product" is word of mouth... and there is a LOT of that happening for the crossbred market due to the sheer numbers of them out there nowadays.

 

I'm with BDJ in that I know exactly what I want when I am ready to take on a new furry best mate. Breed, sex, and which breeder I would like to get it from... happy to wait until they have what I want when I am ready for it - not until Harper passes though, as she hates other dogs and it wouldn't be fair to pup or her to force that issue. I'm not wanting to show, so am happy for limited register if that's what the breeder wants. I am also perfectly happy if pup has less than perfect conformation, but I am sure the breeder I have in mind breeds solidly sound dogs regardless. Pup will be desexed at an age appropriate to it's healthy growth, regardless whether I have to pay a higher council registration for it to be that way. As my preference is for a male, no chance I'm gonna have an oops litter happening on my watch either - he will not be exposed to undesexed females until he has had his ability to breed curtailed, if ever.

 

I have decided on a male for my next pup, as I've had many years of bitches, and have no desire to have many more... *grin*... males of the breed I like are usually a lot less narky... more doofus and lovable boofs in my experience. I've only ever personally come across one male of this breed that wasn't a cuddlebum, but to be fair he was old and had cancer...

 

T.

[BDJ]

21 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

We all know that the best marketing for any "product" is word of mouth... and there is a LOT of that happening for the crossbred market due to the sheer numbers of them out there nowadays.

A friend of mine had been 'sort of thinking' about a dog for a while, and then saw a young dog that they absolutely fell in love with and had a good chat with the owners.  Responsible people so did all the homework and talked it through - and decided yes, it was time and that is what they wanted.   It was a purebred and they rang a couple of breeders and ended up speaking to the breeder of the dog they fell in love with.  Timing was perfect and the breeder had another litter due in a few months and they they now have a perfect pet.  Change it to 'fell in  love with oodle/crossbred' and don't know what the outcome would have been.

 

So yes - word of mouth and good quality product are the two golden rules of marketing.  Availability V exclusivity is always interesting.   Exclusivity is only a positive if the advertising and 'desire' is done right, just having no product does not equate to exclusivity.    If the 'competition' (aka oodles, crossbreds etc) is doing the advertising, has availability and meets the 'cute' requirement, baffles with bullshit (hybrid vigour etc), then is it any surprise that their popularity continues to arise.     

 

(I have deliberately stayed away from the health and general WTF are some breeds being turned in to when looking at some show stock.    Bad breeding occurs across the board (pure and cross) - but it certainly doesn't help that some breeds are riddled with health issues [gives the oodle/crossbred advocates free goals])

 

Disclaimer - I don't consider a dog the same as a car/fridge/whatever - the reference to 'product' relates to human nature

[asal]

8 hours ago, BDJ said:

 

 

I honestly don't understand why the purebred world have moved to a thought process of 'should only breed when they want a pup'.   In my opinion, responsibly bred, well raised  pups who are representative of the breed (type, temperament etc) - who are bred for the 'pet market' are a credit to their breed and the breeder.  They should be accepted not chastised.   Disclaimer - at this point I am talking about pet/family friendly breeds and lines.  Additional disclaimer - I am not endorsing unethical breeding practices.

 

 

fact, the purebred world embraced the " 'should only breed when they want a pup"  COMPLETY AND UTTLERLY as the gold standard for Ethical and Responsible.

 

In this rarefied world to do anything else is to be an immediate target for elimination by a significant and busy group within the membership, I tagged them the thought police over 30 years ago when they first began their activities.  It is very satisfying when I see one thought policer has been targeted by another thought policer. yep they even attack each other at times

 

 

busy fingers get dialing rspca, animal welfare and even the local council to apply enough pressure and humiliation that the target gives up.  Even better if a sick dog or something else is found that gets them charged with something, BINGO instant cancellation of membership.

 

When it began it reminded me of the stories why my black Irish grandfathers ancestors fled the Spanish inquisition centauries ago.  Then too it only took one to report you.

 

ditto for the witch trials.

 

The human race loves witch hunts and inquisitions.    great way to reduce the population too .  o what fun, now we have puppy farmer elimination hunts.

 

heaps of photos of starving mums with pupping hanging off their stretched empty dungs.

 

Did the ankc publish equal numbers of radiantly healthy mums so fat they needed to go on a diet after their pups were weaned?? 

 

resounding NO, they did not.  Never for a second  twigged to the manipulation or the result of not showing the real world instead of the animal nutters doctored propaganda.

 

done a real number on how many people still breed .   done even better number on crashing availability of a puppy too.

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by asal

[coneye]

Its not really rocket science , i think the  main reason for these doodle type dogs is simple  its all in the doodle ,  lack of hair , people simply want a dog , a pet, a freind, a companion, whatever you want to call them . but in this present day and age  of 2 people working the cleaner of the house wants LESS HAIR   its the fact that a lot of these dogs are claimed not to malt or at least not shed too much .. Plus the fact they appear to be more lovable , cute and gentle ,, hence why its usually cavadoodle , labradoodle  , and dogs renowned for the good nature ,  wether or not they are well i don't know   i see them on the beach daily  but never really interacted with any .

 

But i think its definetly  they are percieved has being gentle familly dogs who don't malt ,, after all i've never heard  of a rottadoodle , or a sheperdoodle  or really any doodle  crossed with guarding breeds ... Do i like them  personally  i'm on the fence  if there a good pet why not  , just has good has any other mongrel i suppose ,,I'm definetly in favor of  the low shedding ,  we have a dog that does'nt shed ,    and that really is a bonus  we got him from the pound so did'nt know at the time ,  i just got him because he was  young, and he picked me out ,, I actually went down there to buy a full grown bull mastiff i had seen earlier that day  , went home and got the wife  to show her ,the new dog that was coming home ,  Oliver seen me picked me out    and  7 years later ,   i'm still wondering when he's going to wake up for more than a feed ,   a walk or a quick play , before he starts snoring again ...

 

I do find the price of them insane , and i would NEVER own one simply because theres NO WAY would i part with 4--5  6 thousand dollars for a mongrel and people do , wifes got a freind who's daughter bought a cockerdoodle or some such thing 5 grand , must be mental . But i think there here to stay , because , lets have it right   if you  don't want to clean the house 3 times a day  , and you have Mrs A selling her    shepard  which you know is going to shed ,  for 5 grand , or you have mrs b  selling her labradoodle , with no shedding for 5 grand , most will pick the designer non shedder , I would'nt but a lot will , most don't understand or care about the   breeding and  in any case most of the time its rubbish ,,  I was thinking seriously of getting another shepard i went to  no less than 4 breeders to look at there pups every one of them gave me the spiel about being a responsible breeder , how there dogs were worth more money  ect ect ect ,,, and everyone of them were showing me parents that looked more like jackels  BAD BAD BAD examples of the breed ...

 

After owning a heeler i love them , but  the wife will not have another one ,, simply because  when we have a dog its part of the familly and sleeps wherever it wants , inside outside  ,  and dogs being dogs they will normally come inside , and that causes them to shed more ,  the heeler was the worst shedding dog weve had the wife says no more ,   i thought about a giant shnauzer ,  but decided they may be too energetic for my lifestyle and age , so knocked that one on the head . So i can really see why the non shedding  or low shedding doodle crosses  suit people .

 

But is it  bad too buy one  i don't know like i said i would never pay that sort of money for one  , Breeders   seem to be dead against them ,, but heh ,,,   I also don't want a pup ,   wife says nope let others get there house chewed up if we get one we get an adult dog ,, so  i went looking for an adult dog   and found these same breeders who were critical  of oodle breeders calling them puppy farms , were quite happy to get rid of there adult mastiff or shepard they had for 5-6 years  after its purpose of breeding had been fullfilled  , and yet   off 4 or 5  i rang to buy i found

 

1-- they still wanted top dollar  and

2---- Out of  them  i rang 3 were not house trained  whats that tell you they were not brought up in the familly has claimed , the 4th  was on severe medication  and was going to be  a very very expensive pet , yet  they still wanted  $2000 for a 6 year old dog with problems .

 

So really who are the puppy farmers ,, debatable is'nt it . . There would still be a lot of good breeders out there , after all over the years i've paid top dollar  for dogs and been lucky  i've bought quality dogs all excellent examples of the  temperment and  looks off that breed ,,, but i will say its getting harder to find them , Shepards are a good case in point , over the last 30 years ,  i've looked at them   and think  there not shepards anymore all the shepard traits and too a extent the true solid sturdy shepard looks have been bred out ,   what is it i kept hearing ,

 

WE BREED THEM FINE HERE  ,,,and the fewer breeders the less competition ,  ,,  really is an hard one , i think your just better off going down the pound and rescue the dog , its what i've done for my last two dogs and theve benn rippers , well  the one we got nows a ripper when he's awake ,  but thats only until he can find a lap to lie on

[Rebanne]

I have no problems with breeders, who do the right thing, breeding a litter of pups for the pet people. But that only works for the popular breeds. I only ever bred for myself because it was so hard finding a decent home for the pups that I didn't keep.

[coneye]

4 hours ago, Rebanne said:

I have no problems with breeders, who do the right thing, breeding a litter of pups for the pet people. But that only works for the popular breeds. I only ever bred for myself because it was so hard finding a decent home for the pups that I didn't keep.

 You would get no argument out of me regards breeding if its done for the right reasons  ,,  People who pay thousands to import  dogs , , transport them across country to be bred , ect ect ect ,, Well they have every right to breed there dogs , sell the puppys , and hopefully  make it worth there while to carry on doing it and producing good dogs  wether there for show , or pets   if there producing good quality pups .

 

However i will say like i said recently i did start looking for another dog , and  preferably an older dog and i was disapointed  at some breeders , who like i said  advertized , brought up in familly home ect ,, but   when asked   and told  its a must it must be housetrained , unnacceptable if not , i was  3 out of 4 times told NO ,, further question like  has she been shown  how did she do  in shows , were met with we did'nt show her ,,   she was breeding stock ,  so it was'nt a familly pet , was'nt  a show dog , it lived in the  run ,  and was finished with having litters ,  so time to go ,,, Err  call themselves breeders i call them puppy mills    getting rid of there dogs when no further use ,, 

[Selkie]

Because people want a dog with characteristics that will best fit the human's needs, rather than changing their lifestyle for the dog. Which is kind of fair enough. They just want a dog, they don't want to be "dog people". They don't want to have to go to dog shows and get to know multiple breeders in order to obtain a puppy.

 

The common advice given is that when considering a breed, you need to consider what the breed is bred for, and with that in mind, consider what you will need to do as an owner to fill those needs. Working dogs, for instance, are expected to need lots physical exercise (I know it's more complex than that, but this is the perception of the average puppy buyer). The average person, however, does not want to spend every weekend at dog sports. They want a fluffy little teddy bear that is happy with a daily 20 min walk.

 

There are breeds that are traditionally bred as pet dogs - I believe that yorkies and lowchen, for example, are much overlooked. However, I understand that they are not for everyone. Many traditonal pet breeds are ruled out due to health concerns - airways in flat faced dogs, heart and syringomelia in cavs. 

 

What people really want is the poodle coat; however, poodles are often too much dog for the average owner. Too smart, sometimes too sensitive, too much prey drive. What the average person wants is a poodle with a cav temperament. Or, they want the lab temperament without the thick, oily, shedding coat.  Now, we all know how complex and unpredicatable genetics are, but I understand why people try.

 

 

[Pjrt]

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

Because people want a dog with characteristics that will best fit the human's needs, rather than changing their lifestyle for the dog. Which is kind of fair enough. They just want a dog, they don't want to be "dog people". They don't want to have to go to dog shows and get to know multiple breeders in order to obtain a puppy.

 

The common advice given is that when considering a breed, you need to consider what the breed is bred for, and with that in mind, consider what you will need to do as an owner to fill those needs. Working dogs, for instance, are expected to need lots physical exercise (I know it's more complex than that, but this is the perception of the average puppy buyer). The average person, however, does not want to spend every weekend at dog sports. They want a fluffy little teddy bear that is happy with a daily 20 min walk.

 

There are breeds that are traditionally bred as pet dogs - I believe that yorkies and lowchen, for example, are much overlooked. However, I understand that they are not for everyone. Many traditonal pet breeds are ruled out due to health concerns - airways in flat faced dogs, heart and syringomelia in cavs. 

 

What people really want is the poodle coat; however, poodles are often too much dog for the average owner. Too smart, sometimes too sensitive, too much prey drive. What the average person wants is a poodle with a cav temperament. Or, they want the lab temperament without the thick, oily, shedding coat.  Now, we all know how complex and unpredicatable genetics are, but I understand why people try.

 

 

I really like your post. It succinctly sums up a lot of things. 
 

I think as a population we’ve largely moved past whatever it was that held us to the value of the traditionally accepted ‘breeds’ of the last 100 yrs or so. Now we see more value in a more contemporary style of pet dog. Just as people did in the past to create the dogs for historical purposes, contemporary dogs are being developed from what came before them. It’s not difficult to understand. 

[Rebanne]

I must admit I love my vets Standard Poodle cross, I assume with lab. Would have to be one of the nicest,calmest dogs around. But I wouldn't want to look after the coat.

[Selkie]

21 hours ago, Podgus said:

I really like your post. It succinctly sums up a lot of things. 
 

I think as a population we’ve largely moved past whatever it was that held us to the value of the traditionally accepted ‘breeds’ of the last 100 yrs or so. Now we see more value in a more contemporary style of pet dog. Just as people did in the past to create the dogs for historical purposes, contemporary dogs are being developed from what came before them. It’s not difficult to understand. 

Thanks!

 

Like you imply, I think the niches for many traditionally accepted breeds have disappeared, at least in wealthy countries. Working dogs are still used for stock, but even the work they do looks very different to what they were doing even 50 years ago.

 

For many hunting and gun dogs, well, not many people rely on wild rabbit or fowl for food any more. People for whom hunting is the primary goal create new landraces, like bull arabs or roo hounds, who better fit the requirements of the new hunting techniques. I know there are groups who do more traditional hunts / hunt training, but those numbers appear to be small, and it appears to me that the needs of the dogs and tradition are big motivators. I think that it's great that people keep traditions and knowledge going, but I understand why most dog owners don't want to.

 

Sled dogs are another example - how many people actually use dogs for transport these days? A few people in tourism? Sport sled racers don't usually use traditional sledding breeds - once again, they use a modern landrace, alaskan huskies. 

[WanaHavanese]

On 30/05/2022 at 10:39 AM, BDJ said:

 (b) developing a relationship with a breeder and (c) navigating the questions/unanswered questions/showiness 

 

 

Yes, this was the hard part for me. I wanted a small dog because since becoming disabled, verbal communication is an issue, so I do tend to avoid people and their judgements. Breeders all want a phone call and meetings, sometimes deposits, and waitlists. I was able to get assistance for a single call and pick up, but getting social help for months of negotiations was never going to happen. 

 

I thought getting a show dog might be a great recreational activity for me. I got some great help and info from this site and was excited to try it. Once I know the rules I am able to participate confidently but interactions with breeders didnt have rules to follow. Most ads seem to say no time wasters, yet you're not allowed to ask the price on the first enquiry either. Many websites said they did not allow the buyer to choose their preferred sex ,colour and certainly not which pup.  

 

One breeders site I went to had a page dedicated to etiquette and that it was poor form to enquire with more than one breeder. That it was a very small world and I was intimidated by the tone. It really got confusing and stressful and all I wanted was a pretty dog to brush and take out on weekends like I used to do with the ponies. It became far more complicated than I had the capacity for. 

 

Now I have a beautiful little oodle and would not trade her for the world. I cant show her, obviously, but we enjoy our nights on the couch grooming and brushing and fussing. Many hours in the garden playing and training. Daily trips to the post office, weekend markets and walkies around town. I have become more interactive as she grounds me in social situations. She is just the joy I required, despite being a backyard bred mongrel, she was simply available and easy for me to access. I am forever thankful. In most ways she is perfectly suited to this lifestyle and I have barely done any training with her at all, she just hasnt needed it yet. Bred to be a pretty pampered pet. 

 

 

[Deeds]

It sounds like you have found your perfect friend and companion.  I'm pleased it all worked out so well for you.

[BDJ]

@WanaHavanese - I think you have summed it up perfectly - sometimes a purebred is difficult, and in a world that is difficult on many levels, sometimes it is 'a bridge too far'.

 

Don't get me wrong - I applaud breeders have their dogs best interest at heart, but sometimes that comes at a cost.  A balance is what is needed.   

 

You were darn lucky that your girl is perfect for you.   Cross breds (oodles or whatever) are a bit of a lottery for health and temperament.   I have seen both the wonderful and the heartbreaking.   

 

Congrats to you and your girl - sounds like she is in the perfect home and you have the perfect dog

[Pjrt]

 I myself don’t subscribe to the invention that the best, healthiest or more predictable dogs are only available inside of the pedigree system. From what I’ve observed over 30 plus years as a dog groomer and a bit of involvement with pedigree dogs in kennels, showing, owning and breeding, it’s no more of a lottery either way. I am without doubt that as many worthwhile dogs exist outside of the pedigree system,as exist within it. The same can be said for poor quality dogs inside and outside of the pedigree system.