Syringomyelia in Cavaliers

[Amazetl]

There was a video of a vet talking about syringomyelia and he showed a video of a cavalier with it and then after it had pain relief. I was surprised that the dog looked pretty normal. He also claims that 90 percent of them have this and it varies in levels of it and pain. 

 

They are some of the sweetest dogs I must say but their health issues are extremely concerning. I wonder if this is part the reason that poodle cross cavaliers have become so popular, people get turned off by all the info out there on the health of the breed and somehow think mixing it with a poodle will be fine. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Amazetl

[asal]

On 24/03/2022 at 9:28 PM, julesluvscavs said:

Unfortunately our Miah had it, very severely.. Her breeder was beyond devastated and had not been aware of it, she had never had it in any of her lines previously. She was a very genuine and ethical registered breeder who did test for heart issues/eyes/patella issues etc .She was very supportive through it all and even came when we took her to have a MRI to diagnose it. Her breeder never bred again after finding out about Miah. It would be hard to test every dog with SM as it doesn't always show up until later.
We kept her comfortable for a few years with heaps of tablets that she had to have every few hours and CBD oil to help calm her down. Especially when the atmospheric  pressure was high. Its the worst thing to go through, its absolutely hell for them and us. I had never had it with our previous cavaliers. (One did have a spine condition that came on suddenly)  Miah ended up dying suddenly and unexpentantly from a ruptured spleen tumour we had no idea about, So her life was never going last long  We did have lots of good times as well with her so we don't regret that we had her in our lives even if was for a very short time.
In hindsight, we thought there was a problem going on (before her diagnosis) and we tried various things to settle her behaviours. Nothing would work. I thought she was excited when we walked her but she was crying in pain we later learnt! When they have it severely they cant be over stimulated.
I could go on about this in detail but its still painful for me.
I was very reluctant to get another Cavalier (we do have an old one (Toby) without any issues) but we did get another one and so far so good.. she's showing no signs. We are very aware of what SM presents. 
Most dogs with SM also have an Ear condition also which can be operated on. Primary Secretory Otitis Media (PSOM)
As for operating on dogs with SM our canine Neurologist said he stopped doing the operations for it as it comes back.
Its from their head having the chari formation (Humans can have it too) but not all will develop into SM hence why not all Cavaliers and some other breeds will ever develop it..
There are also different degrees of severity with it from mild to very intense... its extremely painful for them like having a severe migraine.. Its a very expensive condition  if you persist with it like we did.
I still love Cavaliers. There's never any guarantees with any dog or humans' health. Sometimes you just get unlucky!
One of our previous Cavs had a heart murmur but it was still only grade 1 when she passed away and she was never on medication for it.
Many Good breeders will be vigilant about all their other health issues and try to keep on top of them but with SM it's harder. 




 

 

Exactly. my first were  such glorious cavaliers for over 16 years but. and that's the problem. over that period lifespans crashed from 16 to 17 years to 7 to 8.

 

there are even books that state their average lifespan is 7 to 8? for a toy breed that is tragic.

 

as i noted somewhere I noticed all of them had tarter problems unless constantly monitored and cleaned , my vet explained they were bred with non properly aligned teeth so it was an endemic problem.

 

after breeding two SM affected puppies Like your breeder I gave up.

Just too traumatic and heartbreaking.

one lady, all her dogs had been MRI scanned and clear, parents and grandparents, yet they still produced SM puppies.

seems as random as HD unfortunately.

 

I pray the day might come when they can be screened and all clear but until then, im sticking to being a spectator.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by asal

[julesluvscavs]

We now have 3 Cavaliers, one almost 14 or 15 (we adopted him years ago) He's been very healthy. Still is!
The 2 girls we have (Mother and Daughter) both healthy atm..  
We only ever had one diagnosed with SM which was Miah. She was PTS not because of her SM but because of a ruptured spleen tumour  
Its not just Cavs that can get it,  some other breeds can too and Humans can get chari formation also with serious symptoms.
Our Renae got to about 14, the only reason She was given her wings was because of an aggressive liver tumour

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by julesluvscavs

[julesluvscavs]

I just want to add one last thing. I'll never be not passionate about Cavaliers. I certainly do not want anyone to stick their heads in the sand with any of their known health issues, same with any breed with theirs. Be very aware and do lots of research. 

With all my dogs ive had some go really well with their health and some not  (different type dogs over the years)
I belong to many Cavalier fb groups, have been in Cavalier clubs and have known many owners and Breeders of them personally.... So ive known about lots! yes many have health issues to different degrees and many don't/haven't also.
Re age.. yes its true many haven't lived long lives but i know many who have, We knew someone in our Cav club of SA (when it was going) that lived to 20 ! and just had arthritis  .. We met someone on the beach yesterday hers had lived to 17 ! There have been others. Many in my fb groups have gotten to at least 15 ..  so its not true in my observations most will die at a young age.  Many of their conditions can be controlled to a certain extent depending on severity, with medications these days. Renae had a grade 1 heart murmur that never got worse or never needed medications. Many have though.
I'd hate for anyone considering this breed to be totally put off. They are such a beautiful easy going breed, easy to love and be loved by. Still worth owning imo. I was put off after Miah with hers but don't regret our time together. Once we had her meds sorted it was manageable for the most part. Sadly its not what ended her short life  
Performing MRI's would be hard  and very expensive on every Cavalier as sometimes they don't develop it until later..  The potential is always there though for it regardless (chari formation) but in Miah's case there hadn't been any known cases of it in her lines that her Breeder had been aware of. We have had other Cavs with her similar size head and they didn't get it (SM)
Lets just hope Ethical Breeders are doing the best they can. Many will want do the right thing for their love of Cavaliers and also for their Reputation.


 

Edited February 19, 2023 by julesluvscavs

[asal]

Perhaps I should add Why I decided to never breed another cavalier.

 

the last straw was the owner of the last puppy, she as perfect at 6 weeks, equally at 8 weeks when she went to her new home. by 12 weeks she began scratching then it quickly progressed that by 16 weeks she was screaming in pain.

 

The second she rang to say what the vet said I went to see her immediately to return every penny she paid for her puppy and how devastated we were this had happened to the poor puppy. How she treated me was awful absolutely awful, screaming at me!

 

"How could you this to her. How could I do this to an innocent puppy?

What kind of monster does this to a defenceless puppy and  see her suffering, just to make money with no care for their welfare".

 

what part of this had never happened in 16 years did she miss?

 

sound familiar?

anyone who breeds a litter.

every one who has a child, risks hearing this. But parents cant rip shreds off who bred their baby, they did and have to wear bad luck and the guilt of, was this my fault? As my vet once told me, considering the millions of possible gene combinations. all that can go wrong from conception to birth, its actually a miracle so many turn out perfect.

 

But so few remember that.  NO parent can life guarantee the health of their child, yet any one who bred a puppy can be expected too!   They face being tried, convicted and sentenced as guilty of being unethical, uncaring and cruel.  with no defence.

 

Thank goodness the parents of a disabled child are not attacked publicly for the same crime.

 

To be a breeder is a very dangerous undertaking and the heartbreak of losing a baby puppy or their mum is bad enough.   BUT that lady took it to another level that faces anyone who breeds and sells a puppy and something goes wrong after the vets given it the all clear.

 

no one attacks the vets who did not pick it up, no one sues the vet who gave it the all clear.  Its only the breeder who has to wear the blame the anger, the public vilification.

 

so many make the decision never to breed. with good reason.

 

I am home from taking a puppy that was not doing well to the vet to find out why, turns out the brain is not draining normally and no shunts available for a puppy like for a child .    so there was just me and the vet to say goodbye as she went to a better place.  Normally it is only the breeder and the vet see these puppies "that were not born to grow old bones" as my vet says.  So many things can go wrong but the pet public never see this side and I doubt would cope if they did.

I is hard to deal with but at least she has been given her wings and will not suffer as she aged.  Nor will she end up with someone to grow to love like we have then have to say goodbye as we have to this little one.  Very hard to deal with the ones born to die young.  Be it puppy or Child. Had to watch my twins die but that is the risk you take when you love a child or a pet, same broken heart.

 

So as for the cavaliers, that lady ensured I could never risk ever another born with SM again. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by asal

[Mairead]

Thanks asal. Good point about parents which I might use if I need to. The 'one hand of cards in a very big deck' analogy seems to be understood too.

[moosmum]

I'm Sorry for the loss of your pup @asal  

For your heart   

[Dogsfevr]

On 20/02/2023 at 7:44 PM, asal said:

r.

 

no one attacks the vets who did not pick it up, no one sues the vet who gave it the all clear.  Its only the breeder who has to wear the blame the anger, the public vilification.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus add the vets who clearly can not diagnose correctly & tell puppy owners to go after the breeder or the name & shame posts before a correct outcome is even made .

We had a puppy owner who followed there vets advice which was to go after the breeder (us)  & demand XYZ.
Luckily for us in our contract it clearly states any issues of a significant status we had the right for a second opinion before  any refund  or Finacial monies pursued
We got 2 second opinions,our vet & a specialist vet .
We told the pet owners we required a detailed vet letter of there finding for our records .
There vet was made to look like a complete fool with a significant & dangerous misdiagnose,
The dog did have an issue picked up by both in a second opinion which was very mild & fixable which we paid for .
They contacted us in such a toxic ,vile manner certainly not the people we had well vetted before they even get approved for a pup .There vet had created such a horrible moment its was criminal .
Both vets did a detailed report back outlining the findings,the tools use to diagnose  & the outcome & our vet did the surgery after.
There vet charged $1300 to spay a 6kg dog 

I had a dog who we got xrayed as he was toe tapping,we opted to use the vet closest to us as it was during an extreme  heatwave & the dog was a senior .
On collection of the dog told he needed a double hip replacement & that he must have lived a crippled painful life .
Um no & looking at the xray even i could see his hips where great for his age & where previously when scored .
The crap i got told was laughable & they thought i was some knob who new nothing .It was very obvious he did have a problem though which they did not mention.
We asked for a vet report .
We had the xrays rescored & came back well below breed average & the higher score was a result of the actual condition he did have .
He was a near 10 year with severe spondylosis of the lower spine so his ability to flex was gone .
Thiis was clearly listed on his rescore .
When we contacted the vet about it & mentioned they missed something No we havent ,what   about the Spondo said its no problem Umm hello its significant & its painful .
They even questioned the qualifications of the AVA scorer & did we pay for it ,
As we pointed out you said he needed a double hip replacement & where prepared to put the dog through what for your misdiagnose .
Being a breeder does come with alot of flack & expectations which is often hindered by lack of testing facilities offered especially when state govts are insisting on the impossible .
I had to fly East years ago to get my dog BAER tested as no one did it here 
The machine at the Uni had broken down so not fixed & when the tester retired they never trained anyone else to use it .
I believe Tasmania currently has no one to do BAER testing so breeders are in a pickle .
MRI machines where not even an option testing things like SM & i know when the Cavie clubs did a test day /weekend it really had to be managed to allow as many users to get current dogs done & the cost i think was like $800 a dog & you could never get all dogs down in the year as the machine just wasnt available .
I mean even in my home state a Cavie breeder arranges for a heart specialist to fly inn & do a 3 day heart clinic for official certification as no one here can do that .Yes there is a heart people but not what is required on paperwork .
It would be wonderful if when state laws are considered the muppets also new about what is required for some of these testings & what facilities are actually available .

Yep Pet owners dont understand ,they go on forums & groups & get the wrong info or there vet watched a video & because your dog is doing something it has to be that .
Im all for accountability & reality & yes where expected to breed the perfect pet but humans are not required to test for potential health issues as that goes against human rights .

WE stopped breeding last year as moving forward its full of clowns making decisions without common sense 
 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Dogsfevr

[asal]

On 23/02/2023 at 11:07 PM, Dogsfevr said:

Plus add the vets who clearly can not diagnose correctly & tell puppy owners to go after the breeder or the name & shame posts before a correct outcome is even made .

We had a puppy owner who followed there vets advice which was to go after the breeder (us)  & demand XYZ.
Luckily for us in our contract it clearly states any issues of a significant status we had the right for a second opinion if required ,
We got 2 second opinions,our vet & a specialist vet .
We told the pet owners we required a detailed vet letter of there finding for our records .
There vet was made to look like a complete fool with a significant & dangerous misdiagnose,
The dog did have an issue picked up by both in a second opinion which was very mild & fixable which we paid for .
They contacted us in such a toxic ,vile manner certainly not the people we had well vetted before they even get approved for a pup .There vet had created such a horrible moment its was criminal .
Both vets did a detailed report back outlining the findings,the tools use to diagnose  & the outcome & our vet did the surgery after.
There vet charged $1300 to spay a 6kg dog 

I had a dog who we got xrayed as he was toe tapping,we opted to use the vet closest to us as it was during an extreme  heatwave & the dog was a senior .
On collection of the dog told he needed a double hip replacement & that he must have lived a crippled painful life .
Um no & looking at the xray even i could see his hips where great for his age & where previously when scored .
The crap i got told was laughable & they thought i was some knob who new nothing .It was very obvious he did have a problem though which they did not mention.
We asked for a vet report .
We had the xrays rescored & came back well below breed average & the higher score was a result of the actual condition he did have .
He was a near 10 year with severe spondylosis of the lower spine so his ability to flex was gone .
Thiis was clearly listed on his rescore .
When we contacted the vet about it & mentioned they missed something No we havent ,what   about the Spondo said its no problem Umm hello its significant & its painful .
They even questioned the qualifications of the AVA scorer & did we pay for it ,
As we pointed out you said he needed a double hip replacement & where prepared to put the dog through what for your misdiagnose .
Being a breeder does come with alot of flack & expectations which is often hindered by lack of testing facilities offered especially when state govts are insisting on the impossible .
I had to fly East years ago to get my dog BAER tested as no one did it here 
The machine at the Uni had broken down so not fixed & when the tester retired they never trained anyone else to use it .
I believe Tasmania currently has no one to do BAER testing so breeders are in a pickle .
MRI machines where not even an option testing things like SM & i know when the Cavie clubs did a test day /weekend it really had to be managed to allow as many users to get current dogs done & the cost i think was like $800 a dog & you could never get all dogs down in the year as the machine just wasnt available .
I mean even in my home state a Cavie breeder arranges for a heart specialist to fly inn & do a 3 day heart clinic for official certification as no one here can do that .Yes there is a heart people but not what is required on paperwork .
It would be wonderful if when state laws are considered the muppets also new about what is required for some of these testings & what facilities are actually available .

Yep Pet owners dont understand ,they go on forums & groups & get the wrong info or there vet watched a video & because your dog is doing something it has to be that .
Im all for accountability & reality & yes where expected to breed the perfect pet but humans are not required to test for potential health issues as that goes against human rights .

WE stopped breeding last year as moving forward its full of clowns making decisions without common sense 
 

 

 

So true, sadly this problem seems to be increasing.

 

I received a call from a puppy owner to tell me her vet had told her to sue me for the $X,YZ  cost for the completed luxating patella op he had just done on both legs of her only 6 months pup.

 

When I told my vet who had seen her at 6 weeks, 8 weeks and 12 weeks and found both leg joints perfect. He rang the vet who did it and asked him "was the payment due on your SUV?".  Telling him "that puppy was perfect at all 3 examinations", that "any vet can put enough pressure to move such soft cartridge and make the owner think the puppy has luxating patella even when it hasn't while so young."

He told him and me, no way was the breeder responsible for paying for an op when no second opinion had been made available.

 

He warned me many vets were now seeing this operation as a bread and butter income.

 

Never forget the distress of a friend who was told she had to pay $6,000 for an operation for "elbow dysplasia" in a six month old pup she bred and gave to a friend.  Their vet had told her to sue her for the cost. Lucky it had not yet been operated on and she asked them to take to her vet for second opinion.

 

Xrays revealed both elbows had been fractured, questioning of the family revealed it had jumped over six feet from their veranda!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Deeds]

Every day I see people with pups taking them for long walks.  4 mth old pups being taken for very long walks and in the heat as well.  No wonder there are joint problems in young dogs.  

[Dogsfevr]

16 hours ago, Deeds said:

Every day I see people with pups taking them for long walks.  4 mth old pups being taken for very long walks and in the heat as well.  No wonder there are joint problems in young dogs.  

And the answer is always the pup is driving us crazy so a long walk will calm it down .