What is a "Fair" Price for a Puppy?

[JRG]

FCR 4.   If you are not happy with the responses then I suggest that you go out and get yourself some well bred brood bitches and have a go yourself.  Then in a few years time, you will be able to let us all know how much each pup has cost you to produce.

We are would  all be interested to see some good objective research.  Let’s face ir, even the Taxman will not accept that dog breeding (except on a large scale) can be a profitable business.

[tdierikx]

Back many years when I bred a pedigreed/registered litter, the going price per pup was around $400... we had 10 pups to rehome and didn't even break even on the cost of raising them to 10 weeks of age. Costs have risen exponentially since then, so I'd say prices have risen to match same. There is of course also the fact that during the pandemic, so many people decided that getting a dog was something they suddenly found they had the time to do... and some breeders of certain types of dogs saw that demand was high, and decided to price to the demand.

 

There will always be some that will overprice because they know that the demand will allow for it... and others that will set a fairer price for their pups, but be fussier about who they will sell to. The choice is up to the buyer then... do they pay the inflated prices to have a new pup right now, or wait for a "better" breeder to have available pups at a fairer price but be subject to much more vetting before being allowed to purchase one?

 

T.

[~Anne~]

13 hours ago, FCR4 said:

Then why bother responding?

You’re not here to talk with others, you’re here to listen to yourself.
 

I’d suggest everyone stops engaging and let you indulge in your own self-importance. 

[westiemum]

Look, I'm a rescuer not a breeder - but even I understand some basics here - there is no 'fair' price for a puppy.  There are too many factors involved - supply and demand, breeder costs, 'trendiness', how many idiots believe the 'doodle' bullshit  at the time (which affects overall market prices), even micro-markets, state to state and area to area in some cases. 

 

Rescue, like breeding is a loss-making business - big time.  I could have spent a year on the QEII for the money my rescues have cost me over the years - and I'd do it over again in a heart beat.  My point?  Buyers need to recognise this is not a stable  FMCG market seeling identical predictable goods - many factors influence prices. 

 

The best advice I can give is  choose your breed wisely and carefully to match your lifestyle (and no, doodles are marketing terms not breeds), recognise the market you are in and its factors, nuances and characteristics, find a good breeder, build a great relationship with them - and suck up the price (whatever it is). 

Edited March 20, 2022 by westiemum

[sandgrubber]

I respect breeder costs. Nonetheless, it's a sorrow to see the costs of both puppies and houses with yards appropriate for a dog rising to the point where a lot of people are priced out of the market. 

Oldie bemoaning the good old days...but I remember a time when a lot of pups came from families deciding have a litter for the experience...or due to accidents...and formal breeding was less important.  I, myself, see the love of puppies as a major reason to breed, and am inclined to pricing at the low end when I do have a litter.   But my finances are in good shape and I can afford to weigh the benefit of doggy benefits high when doing a cost benefit analysis.  IMO, the derision of back yard breeders hasn't helped the dog scene.  I think the pedigree dog world is gradually dying out, in part, because it has been so unfriendly to new entrants and people who want to have an occasional litter without thinking of themselves as breeders.

[Purdie]

6 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

I respect breeder costs. Nonetheless, it's a sorrow to see the costs of both puppies and houses with yards appropriate for a dog rising to the point where a lot of people are priced out of the market. 

Oldie bemoaning the good old days...but I remember a time when a lot of pups came from families deciding have a litter for the experience...or due to accidents...and formal breeding was less important.  I, myself, see the love of puppies as a major reason to breed, and am inclined to pricing at the low end when I do have a litter.   But my finances are in good shape and I can afford to weigh the benefit of doggy benefits high when doing a cost benefit analysis.  IMO, the derision of back yard breeders hasn't helped the dog scene.  I think the pedigree dog world is gradually dying out, in part, because it has been so unfriendly to new entrants and people who want to have an occasional litter without thinking of themselves as breeders.

 

 

I do not bemoan the good old days;sure50 +years ago there were litters of cheap pups all over the place but many dogs were not vaccinated and wormed or even seen by a Vet.

When I was young my brothers  were offered free pups from friends/ colleges who,s family dog had pups.

The first pup my brother gave me was free but cost my parents a lot at the Vet to get her healthy.

more pups given to me by my brothers and I did my best with them only being a child at the time.

Another pup given to me was a working breed that I had to re home because my home was not the best place for him.

A few years on I came across a Bull Terrier at a market in the bad old days when pups could be sold at markets and pet shops.

I had always wanted a Bull Terrier so handed over the money and took her home.

Had her home for a few hours when I saw she had very runny poo so off to the Vet the next day.

After a few weeks she was not responding to treatment and found out she had distemper.

You never want to see a dog having fits it was horrific;had her put down.

After that I said no more dogs but after 2 years I began reading about pedigree dogs and pretty much every dog book I could get my hand on then decided

a pure breed was the go so purchased a black Cocker spaniel who I was told was fathered by a champion sire etc etc .

No pedigree papers he told me didn't need them he said unless you are a registered breeder ,bs bs etc.

Found out months later that the mother of my pup was not a pedigree " Had a bit of something else in her "

 

 

Later find out pup has   brain disorder and her life will be short.  ,medication makes her like a zombie so I have her put down.

Again say no more pups and get a cat.

Months later a friend of a friend comes by on his motor bike carrying a pup in his jacket.

I say no I do not want another dog.He asks me to bring water for the pup so I'm giving water to the pup and he takes off and leaves her.

Tried to return the dog but get a frost reception from his mother who won't say where the pup is from so I kept her at least she was healthy.

Now have things improved these days I would say in some ways yes people have access to a lot of information about buying pets

 

No one can tell you what a fair price is for a pup but i can tell you

A pup that is healthy happy of sound mind and temperament is worth it's weight in gold.

 

[asal]

WE ARE SO LUCKY distemper is almost unkown

 

devastating way to lose

your dog or puppy

Edited March 22, 2022 by asal

[OzzieLioness]

6 hours ago, asal said:

WE ARE SO LUCKY distemper is almost unkown

 

devastating way to lose

your dog or puppy

 

Serious question .... 

When was distemper made rare? It still exists and to say its almost unknown is, to my thinking, a dangerous thing to state.

 

People will end up stopping vaccinating for it as money gets tighter .... and it is as prices for everything skyrocket .... and then it will be roaring back with a vengeance killing half the dogs unlucky enough to get it. 

[Rebanne]

7 minutes ago, OzzieLioness said:

 

Serious question .... 

When was distemper made rare? It still exists and to say its almost unknown is, to my thinking, a dangerous thing to state.

 

People will end up stopping vaccinating for it as money gets tighter .... and it is as prices for everything skyrocket .... and then it will be roaring back with a vengeance killing half the dogs unlucky enough to get it. 

when a vaccine was found for it. It is almost unknown thanks to the vaccine. I've been in dogs for over 40 years and have never even heard of a dog getting distemper. There will always be unvaccinated dogs and plenty of them but it's parvo more likely to get them then distemper.

[~Anne~]

I haven’t seen or heard of a dog, in NSW, with distemper since I was a child. Does it still exist? 

[OzzieLioness]

1 hour ago, ~Anne~ said:

I haven’t seen or heard of a dog, in NSW, with distemper since I was a child. Does it still exist? 

If people think its rare or non existent, with the way costs keep climbing, there WILL be people who don't vaccinate because of the mistaken belief that distemper doesn't occur. It is so preventable ... and vaccination is something I will NOT budge on. It does not take long for it to get up and running again ...

 

16 August, 2018 .... 

 

"The Tasmanian Government has written to vets warning them to be on the lookout for distemper after the virus killed a puppy owned by someone who has traded dogs across the state.

 

Distemper is contagious and potentially lethal viral disease that attacks a dog's respiratory, gastrointestinal and nervous systems.

It was once common in Australia in the 1960s and 70s but vaccination efforts reduced the threat to sporadic cases.

 

But vets in Tasmania have received a letter from Emma Watkins from the Government's Animal Biosecurity and Welfare Branch warning them of a recent case where a Hobart dog owner took a sick puppy to a clinic where it died from distemper.

 

"Although this pup presented in Hobart it would be worth being on the alert all over the state as the owners had a history of trading dogs and puppies throughout the state," she said. The dog that died was a mixed breed, but Ms Watkins would not say which Hobart vet clinic treated the sick puppy.

 

Ms Arnott said she vaccinated dogs from six weeks of age, and very young puppies could benefit from their mother's vaccination.

"As long as the mother dogs are vaccinated and have very good immunity they will pass that onto their puppies," she said.

 

"As soon as they stop feeding their puppies and passing that immunity on, if you get those pups vaccinated you will have no trouble at all with distemper. "That is why we haven't seen it in Australia for 30-plus years, really."

 

Ms Watkins said distemper was not a concern if people were vaccinating their dogs.

 

Tasmanian vets warned after pup dies from now-rare distemper disease - ABC News

[OzzieLioness]

Epidemiology and clinical presentation of canine distemper disease in dogs and ferrets in Australia, 2006-2014

A total of 48 individually affected dogs and ferrets in 27 case groups were identified, including eight confirmed case groups (> one individual). Confirmed cases were more common in summer and on the central coast of New South Wales and southern Victoria, and occurred exclusively in young, unvaccinated dogs. For dogs there was no obvious sex predilection. A mortality rate of 100% in ferrets and up to 77% in dogs was estimated. Neurological, gastrointestinal and respiratory were the most commonly reported systems affected in dogs and ferrets. There was no evidence that any large, unreported outbreaks occurred during the study period.

 

Conclusions: Continuation of vaccination against canine distemper virus is justified within Australia, particularly for younger dogs. Veterinarians should continue to consider distemper in their differential diagnosis of cases with neurological, gastrointestinal and respiratory presentation.

 

Epidemiology and clinical presentation of canine distemper disease in dogs and ferrets in Australia, 2006-2014 - PubMed (nih.gov)

[OzzieLioness]

Explained: Parvo, Distemper, Hepatitis & Kennel Cough

Updated July 24, 2021

Distemper appears to be increasing again, probably due to low vaccination rates. An Australian study for the years 2006-2014 found 29 confirmed and 19 suspected cases, always in un-vaccinated dogs (Wyllie et al, 2016).

 

 

Explained: Parvo, Distemper, Hepatitis & Kennel Cough In Dogs (walkervillevet.com.au)

[~Anne~]

Is it just this thread? 

[tdierikx]

Distemper is alive and well in Australia... foxes and dingoes get it regularly enough to keep it circulating...

 

T.

[Princess Fru Fru]

Well considering the Distemper vaccine forms part of the C3, it's not like people can pick and choose the diseases to be vaccinated against.  If they want their dog vaccinated against parvo, then by default they're also getting Canine Hepatitis and Distemper at the bare minimum.

 

So effectively it comes down to the 2 kinds of people, those who vax and those who don't.

[OzzieLioness]

I guess people just miss the whole point. Mehhh It must be this thread 

[asal]

16 hours ago, OzzieLioness said:

 

Serious question .... 

When was distemper made rare? It still exists and to say its almost unknown is, to my thinking, a dangerous thing to state.

 

People will end up stopping vaccinating for it as money gets tighter .... and it is as prices for everything skyrocket .... and then it will be roaring back with a vengeance killing half the dogs unlucky enough to get it. 

 

when I was a kid in the 50's hardly anyone vaccinated their dogs, I know my dads were the only ones in our street.  I am amazed how many unfortunate puppies are neither vaccinated or microchipped now even though it is supposed to be law that you cannot sell or rehome an unvaccinated or not chipped dog or puppy.

 

this has been law for some 30 years now?

 

yet is not enforced.

 

yet there are more and more laws being passed to eliminate anyone breeding a litter.

 

if they have their way its not the puppy farms being shut down, its is everyone that is not a licensed

 puppy farm.

 

 

[Odin-Genie]

I too respect breeders costs. However, in the last 8 years, the cost of a registered puppy has gone up by almost 400%. An example would be Golden Retrievers. Eight years ago a puppy would cost about 1,000. Today the minimum is 5,000. It has doubled in the last two years of Covid. The reality is:

• Wages have not increased by that much, not even close.
• With the current prices, only the well-off will be able to afford registered breeders’ puppies.
• Families who love dogs and could provide amazing homes, but can’t afford the prices, will look at Gumtree, or friends who want to breed.
• This will increase backyard breeding.

 

I totally agree that breeders don’t often make money, if one takes into account the health costs and the maintenance costs of the dogs. But that calculation only makes sense if you look at your dogs as a business investment. I don’t blame anyone who is trying to earn money out of their hobby if they can. But accept it’s a business, and like any other business if the demand is high, the costs will go up.

[asal]

1 minute ago, Odin-Genie said:

I too respect breeders costs. However, in the last 8 years, the cost of a registered puppy has gone up by almost 400%. An example would be Golden Retrievers. Eight years ago a puppy would cost about 1,000. Today the minimum is 5,000. It has doubled in the last two years of Covid. The reality is:

• Wages have not increased by that much, not even close.
• With the current prices, only the well-off will be able to afford registered breeders’ puppies.
• Families who love dogs and could provide amazing homes, but can’t afford the prices, will look at Gumtree, or friends who want to breed.
• This will increase backyard breeding.

 

I totally agree that breeders don’t often make money, if one takes into account the health costs and the maintenance costs of the dogs. But that calculation only makes sense if you look at your dogs as a business investment. I don’t blame anyone who is trying to earn money out of their hobby if they can. But accept it’s a business, and like any other business if the demand is high, the costs will go up.

 

my niece paid $7,000 for a so called Blue Merle Cavoodle.   as any ankc breeders knows, there is no merle gene in either the poodle or cavalier breeds.  last I looked the only place oodels come from is puppy farms? it was only 8 weeks old and already been desexed male so will not grow normally as it should as it will never experience puberty google explains how high the vet problems that occur with puppies done too young.