Tail Docking

[blackas]

I am wondering why, when tail docking was banned in Australia in 2004(?) and in New Zealand 2018, there seems to be a number of young Dobermans with docked tails (younger than 4) in the Show Ring across Australia. I know it can be done legally by a Veterinarian for therapeutic reasons but boy, there must be a lot of clumsy dogs getting their tails caught in doors and gates! Can anybody enlighten me on this please. Is it even being questioned at dog shows?

[~Anne~]

I think it was still legal in WA for a while. Maybe it still is and they’re being docked over there?
 

There were many breeders who thought their right to cut off tails was justified when the tide turned and the new legislation was introduced. I assume there are many who still think along these archaic lines and believe it is necessary? 

[Pjrt]

Yes there was some sort of loophole that saw dogs being sent to WA but I don’t know if that loophole has been fixed. 

[Rebanne]

Most will be imported from NZ. Breeders sent the bitches there to have their pups. Pups were docked there.

[JRG]

I think you can also still import dogs that have been legally docked in their home country

[blackas]

Thanks guys for the responses. However tail docking throughout all of Australia has been banned since 2004 and New Zealand since 2018 and there are 2 and 3 year old dogs with docked tails in the show ring currently. I would like to think they have been docked for therapeutic reasons but I somehow doubt it.

[Psycho-Magnet]

How do you know that their tails were docked?

[Rebanne]

2 minutes ago, FCR4 said:

How do you know that their tails were docked?

As far as I know Dobes don't have the natural bobtail gene so if the tail is shortened then docking is the obvious reason. 

[Psycho-Magnet]

22 hours ago, Rebanne said:

As far as I know Dobes don't have the natural bobtail gene so if the tail is shortened then docking is the obvious reason. 

Dobies are well known to have the bobtail gene, and I believe there may even be some breeders who specialise in bobtailed dogs.

 

I don't know how common they are?  Or even if they are shown at all. Nor did I see the dogs in question, which is why I asked the OP how they knew?
I imagine that a vet or even a Judge could tell the difference, but I know I certainly couldn't, especially not observing from a distance.

Edited March 6, 2022 by FCR4

[Rebanne]

12 hours ago, FCR4 said:

I don't understand why you would devote time to posting something so obviously not correct?

 

Bit rude don't you think? 

I said as far as I know. Please post a link to a verified source to back up your information.

[moosmum]

12 hours ago, FCR4 said:

I don't understand why you would devote time to posting something so obviously not correct?

 

Dobies are well known to have the bobtail gene, and I believe there may even be some breeders who specialise in bobtailed dogs.

 

 

I would say its little  known in Australia that Dobes can carry the bob tail gene, and to say its well known is obviously not correct.

 

[Psycho-Magnet]

7 hours ago, Rebanne said:

Bit rude don't you think?

There was no call for you to critique my post.

Edited March 6, 2022 by FCR4

[Psycho-Magnet]

7 hours ago, moosmum said:

 

I would say its little  known in Australia that Dobes can carry the bob tail gene, and to say its well known is obviously not correct.

Dobies can carry the Bobtail Gene. 

The fact that the gene itself might be quite rare, doesn't mean that knowledge is also rare.

 

As mentioned above, I have no idea how common it is.  I do know that some breeders specialise in natural bobtails, but have no idea how many, or even if their dogs are even shown. 
That is why I simply asked the OP how they knew?  It may well be that they are correct and all the dogs they observed were surgically docked.  Perhaps they asked the owners, or perhaps there is an obvious visual difference?  That's why I asked.

Edited March 6, 2022 by FCR4

[~Anne~]

Until now I’d never heard of a bobtail Doberman and I’m in the category of ‘a passing knowledge’ of most breeds. It’s a better option than cutting the tails off puppies, that’s for sure. 
 

FCR4 - why so aggressive? I personally do not think that bobtails in dobermans is common knowledge either. So what if someone gets it wrong. In Rebanne’s defence she stated ‘as far as I know’ ie it’s her own personal knowledge and opinion. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by ~Anne~

[moosmum]

17 minutes ago, FCR4 said:

Here is a Link for You

The world, and this forum, does not revolve around you.  There was no call for you to critique my post.
Your defence, that you admit you don't know, just proves that you should have refrained from commenting.

 

Projection, Much ?

Why would you take Rebannes comment as a personal critique,  instead of simply linking the relevant info?

The nastiness is unwarranted.

[Psycho-Magnet]

I DO Know, that there are those in the "Dobie World" who seem to take issue with the breeders of "natural bobtails." 

 

I don't understand it, I'm not involved in any way with Dobies. 

Maybe (like some other genes) there are other issues associated with this gene?

Maybe the Breeders producing natural bobtails don't produce otherwise typey dogs?

Maybe those Breeders refuse to share their bloodlines?

 

It's also possible they dispute the origins of the gene within the Dobie Pedigree. 

There are those who claim that the original Dobies were naturally bobbed, and that surgical docking only came in to match that.

Then there are those that claim the gene was never present, and has only come about through outcrossing.

 

I don't know, and personally have no skin in that game.

Edited March 6, 2022 by FCR4

[moosmum]

22 minutes ago, ~Anne~ said:

Until now I’d never heard of a bobtail Doberman and I’m in the category of ‘a passing knowledge’ of most breeds. It’s a better option than cutting the tails off puppies, that’s for sure. 
 

FCR4 - why so aggressive? I personally do not think that bobtails in dobermans is common knowledge either. So what if someone gets it wrong. In Rebanne’s defence she stated ‘as far as I know’ ie it’s her own personal knowledge and opinion. 

 

Seems the gene in Dobes is little understood and tho' some have specialized in trying produce natural Bob tails, Unless there have been advances made, the gene has been some what lethal and has not been worth the heart ache for most. Often expressing as only a kinked tail, maybe a 3/4 or more, or  minus an anus.

A perfect bob tail being far from the only result.

Edited March 6, 2022 by moosmum

[Psycho-Magnet]

14 minutes ago, ~Anne~ said:

So what if someone gets it wrong. In Rebanne’s defence she stated ‘as far as I know’ ie it’s her own personal knowledge and opinion. 

So in your opinion, her ignorant attack, is justified by ignorance?

If somebody doesn't know about something, then on what basis do they claim it's wrong?

 

All I did was simply ask the OP a question. 
I didn't attack them, I didn't claim they were wrong.

[Psycho-Magnet]

5 minutes ago, moosmum said:

Seems the gene in Dobes is little understood and tho' some have specialized in trying produce natural Bob tails, Unless there have been advances made, the gene is some what lethal and has not been worth the heart ache for most. Often expressing as only a kinked tail, maybe a 3/4 or more, or  minus an anus.

A perfect bob tail being far from the only result.

Yes, and this was part of my subsequent point.

Sometimes (like so-called "Silver Labradors") "designer genes" have been artificially introduced into the Breed gene-pool via outcrossing.

Sometimes the genes causing "desirable" traits (such as Merle, Blue Eyes, etc) can have other undesirable traits.

Sometimes what is claimed to be the presence of a particular gene, is in fact something altogether different, a corruption of genes that should not be kept.

 

To be clear, whilst I have no personal knowledge of them, I'm certainly not defending those breeders.  For all I know they could be doing a great dis-service to the breed.

I owned a GSP, and in accordance with the practice at the time, their tails had been docked in infancy. 

I'm considering another, and if hypothetically somebody was trying to breed "natural bobtails", my question would be WHY???  Why don't you want your dog to have a tail?

[~Anne~]

Ignorant attack? Uh-huh. Ok. Why are you taking it so personally?