Obtaining a puppy on MR

[Kelly Gunn]

Does any one have any advice on how to find a breeder that will let you purchase a puppy on mains register? 
 

Despite being a practising qualified veterinary nurse, grooming salon owner and puppy pre school teacher, I am completing shut down with a flat no from every breeder I have contacted.
Ironic and frustrating since I have been assisting breeders with caesars, progesterones, AIs, puppy vaccinations and god knows what else for the last 17 years. 
 

I am looking for golden retriever bitch to be a much loved family pet with the option of showing or producing a litter or two if suitable.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Kelly Gunn
Spelling

[Rebanne]

well you would know then all about how many cross breeds have a Goldie parent, so you can't blame ethical breeders from saying no. Full marks to you for being up front though. I can only suggest you contact a couple of the breeders who have dogs you like and suggest a sort of apprenticeship. Meet up at shows, chat, help them etc, build a solid relationship and see how you go. But your journey won't be quick and to be frank, if I had a breed used for crossbreeding very expensive dogs, usually from non health tested parents, hybrid vigor you know, then I would most likely say no as well.

I am not saying breeding cross bred's is your aim, not at all, but I understand where the breeders are coming from. Have you not met any Goldie breeders worth their salt in your long career? Or are they the one's saying no?

[Dogsfevr]

First off your career path doesn’t give you brownie points nor mean a breeder will fall over themselves to sell too you .

infact some off they worse puppy farmers are vets and vet nurses .

Often people in this field from experience come across during enquiries as no it alls and feel there knowledge is above and beyond .

 

So what you need to appreciate in language translate a family pet for maybe showing and breeding send red flags especially when the litter aspect is more a guarantee than showing .

You want a perfect dog on mains to bred but most likely not show .

 

The Goldie people are very careful these days as every crap breeder who breeds gives the breed a bad name with issues .

 

As you would know from your career path there is no guarantee a pup turns out to be a suitable breeding animal .

Whether that’s because it doesn’t grow into its potential,hip n elbow scores aren’t low enough ,eye test shows up star cataracts .

 

Have you joined the Golden Retriever club in your state ?Have you been to shows .Are you a dogsNSW member .Have you started understanding the process for the breeders exam .
What lines do you like ,whose dogs have impressed you .

Generally pleas like this means ive contacted everyone just for a breeding bitch but not really researched whose dogs one likes,the health behind them and the support that breeder will give.

Go to shows attend the Goldie champ shows ,see whose dogs you like and build a relationship from there and that way you will learn the lines off the dogs especially when it comes to stud dogs .

When it comes to a stud dog that process will be no easier unless you pick the easy route .

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Dogsfevr

[Psycho-Magnet]

I sympathise

Playing Devil's Advocate, it think that Breeders get a huge number of enquiries, and even a lot of enquiries similar to yours.  Many from people that fall into the "oh wouldn't it be cute to have puppies" basket.
From their point of view, it might seem like your priorities are:

Pet

Puppies

Maybe Showing

Good of the Breed

You need to stand out, and if possible try to reverse that perception.

 

If you are serious about showing, then you should do your research, start attending shows, get to know what to look for in a Champion, make friends with some of the breeders.  You'll probably do better showing an interest and getting to know one or two breeders.
And perhaps think about starting with a boy?  Breeders will probably be a lot less suspicious if you ask for a "Show Quality" Boy.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the bodgy puppy farmers aren't stupid.  They know that they will produce better pups and crosses if they can start with bitches that have been rigorously screened for health issues.  So I imagine they try all sorts of tricks to get their hands on good bitches from reputable breeders.

If you are serious about wanting to breed, then I suggest you enquire about Guardianships.
Put simply, you become a "guardian" of a bitch selected by the Breeder.  They retain legal and registered ownership, under a contract that gives them wide control.  If they judge her suitable for breeding, then they select the Sire, and the Dam is returned to them before whelping, and back to you after weaning.  At a specified age,or after a given number of litters, ownership is transferred to you (possibly following sterilisation.)

Edited February 21, 2022 by FCR4

[Lhok]

Do you have to have a female to start with? If you are interested in breeding and showing then perhaps a male would also work that's what I did with my Keeshond, I got a male on mains with the desire to show unfortunately things haven't been smooth (my heath has been bad) but we are still hoping to get there. You don't need to start with a female

--Lhok

Edited February 25, 2022 by Lhok
clarity

[sandgrubber]

You have my sympathy.   LR is an awful convention.   Despite what people have said above, Golden breeders haven't done a great job "improving" the breed.   High incidence of cancer, growing incidence of temperament flaws, excessive coats, and other problems (including high prices) that make the breed less appropriate as a family pet.  Good luck.

[Dogsfevr]

8 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

You have my sympathy.   LR is an awful convention.   Despite what people have said above, Golden breeders haven't done a great job "improving" the breed.   High incidence of cancer, growing incidence of temperament flaws, excessive coats, and other problems (including high prices) that make the breed less appropriate as a family pet.  Good luck.

So whats your claim to fame in the Goldie world ?

[sandgrubber]

11 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

So whats your claim to fame in the Goldie world ?

I read and follow scientific literature.   Look at Appendix 1 for information on Goldies.  They aren't the worst, but are worse than average. 

https://cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40575-021-00111-4

 

also, I  used to live next door to a Goldie  breeder.

[Dogsfevr]

11 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

I read and follow scientific literature.   Look at Appendix 1 for information on Goldies.  They aren't the worst, but are worse than average. 

https://cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40575-021-00111-4

 

also, I  used to live next door to a Goldie  breeder.

So you have no clue but the good old I read literature on every breed when you respond and I lived near someone answer .

Knew that would be the reply lol 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Dogsfevr

[sandgrubber]

11 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

So you have no clue but the good old I read literature on every breed when you respond and I lived near someone answer .

Knew that would be the reply lol 

 

 

 

Do you seriously believe the pedigree

Goldens of 2022 are better (healthier, better temperament) than those of, say, 1950?  No question they have bigger coats and the proportion of light colour coats has increased, as per show ring preferences.  (Having bred Labbies, I ended up watching a lot of GRs in the show ring thanks to alphabetical order).

 

Do you not believe in science?  Did you even try to read the article I linked to? 

 

If you don't like science, here's from insurance company data.  Note the very high incidence of cancer in GRs.

 

https://www.embracepetinsurance.com/waterbowl/article/rates-of-cancer-by-dog-breed

 

And insurance costs reflect this. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by sandgrubber
added on

[~Anne~]

The LR/MR issue was discussed recently in another thread. 
 

Pedigree dogs are on the decline and have been for at least 20 years. I agree with a point made in that discussion that this is a contributor to that downhill slide. 
 

I’d keep trying to find your pup from a breeder that shares your values. Don’t give up. Perhaps through developing a relationship with one that you’ve already spoken with? Once they feel more comfortable with you, trust might grow? 

[moosmum]

23 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

So you have no clue but the good old I read literature on every breed when you respond and I lived near someone answer .

Knew that would be the reply lol 

 

 

Your not addressing the information given, Just discrediting the bearer

Edited February 23, 2022 by moosmum

[Rebanne]

Can we please not turn this into a p1$$ing contest? 

[Psycho-Magnet]

I'm not involved in the "industry" and I only know a few breeders to exchange pleasantries on facebook, so I'm far from being expert.

 

I don't know much about the Goldie scene, but one thing I've noted with FCRs is the extent to which some Breeder have gone to improve Australian Bloodlines.
Importing a dog is a huge undertaking, especially now that there is only one quarantine centre, in Melbourne.  The process can take several months or even longer, and the costs are enormous. 
So I can understand why some Breeders are justifiably protective of those genes.

[asal]

On 23/02/2022 at 10:01 PM, FCR4 said:

I'm not involved in the "industry" and I only know a few breeders to exchange pleasantries on facebook, so I'm far from being expert.

 

I don't know much about the Goldie scene, but one thing I've noted with FCRs is the extent to which some Breeder have gone to improve Australian Bloodlines.
Importing a dog is a huge undertaking, especially now that there is only one quarantine centre, in Melbourne.  The process can take several months or even longer, and the costs are enormous. 
So I can understand why some Breeders are justifiably protective of those genes.

 

 

yes the most often heard is No one is getting my lines I worked so hard to improve.

 

so LR all the way and those supposedly ever so precious "lines" die with the breeder.

 

best example is the stumpy tailed cattledog. not a single MR owned by anyone other than Iris.

 

the good news is once its down to that point, then a "development register" will be finally allowed and dogs submitted for assessment and into the grading up register.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by asal

[~Anne~]

11 hours ago, FCR4 said:

I'm not involved in the "industry" and I only know a few breeders to exchange pleasantries on facebook, so I'm far from being expert.

 

I don't know much about the Goldie scene, but one thing I've noted with FCRs is the extent to which some Breeder have gone to improve Australian Bloodlines.
Importing a dog is a huge undertaking, especially now that there is only one quarantine centre, in Melbourne.  The process can take several months or even longer, and the costs are enormous. 
So I can understand why some Breeders are justifiably protective of those genes.

What’s the percentage of breeders who sell MR only, and also import dogs into their bloodlines do you think? 

[Rebanne]

1 hour ago, asal said:

 

 

 

 

best example is the stumpy tailed cattledog. not a single MR owned by anyone other than Iris.

 

 

 

 

not correct

[Pjrt]

My 2 cents worth on Goldie’s …as a groomer of 36 yrs I’ve seen the majority of Goldens ‘that Ive handled’ decline into gigantic stupidly over coated dogs with little emotional control, manifesting in over the top unmanageable exuberance or timidity edged with aggression. That’s before structural issues are even mentioned. Personally I rate them pretty low on my list of desirable pet dogs.  My vet once called them a ‘bite with a smile’ breed so unable to control their emotions that they’d be wagging their butt off one end while chewing your face off up the other end. Pretty sad. 

[Psycho-Magnet]

All I said was that I could understand why some breeders are protective.
There are Breeders who have imported multiple dogs and bitches (actual dogs not just sperm)
So logically, if you want access to that for your own program, then you should pay the appropriate stud fee.  That's all.

I would imagine that most breeders are not in that category.

Edited February 24, 2022 by FCR4

[asal]

 

 

there is an ironic twist here surely?

 

 

only the dogs bred by the backyarders and these genetic's preserved by the very backyarders so despised by the ankc members? 

 

Are the ones to end up in the "development register" but not those of the dead end ankc kennels. (they were either already desexed prior to sale, or with desexing contracts.)

 

Yet,  once these "development register" dogs belong to ankc members they too will be probably only sold on LR only,  so back into dead end kennels, anyway